Obama backing away from ending Don't Ask/Don't Tell?

[nageov3t]

"I want to make sure that when we revert 'don't ask, don't tell,' it's gone through a process and we've built a consensus or at least a clarity of what my expectations are so that it works. My first obligation as the president is to make sure that I keep the American people safe and that our military is functioning effectively...Although I have consistently said I would repeal 'don't ask, don't tell,' I believe that the way to do it is make sure that we are working through a process, getting the Joint Chiefs of Staff clear in terms of what our priorities are going to be."

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/09/obama-clarifies.html (possibly nsfw ads)
http://ap.google.com/article/A...qBU-8kZ098naQD938NKRO0

is Obama taking the first steps towards backing away from and "clarifying" his position on DA/DT, or am I being paranoid?

 

[Aegeon]

He's just saying he won't rush the change through too quickly which is presumably a political calculation to avoid alienating evangelical who might otherwise vote for him. It also helps avoid the argument he's not listening to what the members of the military have to say about the issue at all.

 

[ScottMac]

Typical Chicago hedge: No matter what way he goes, he can say it's what he'd said he was gonna do.

That's like "Chicago Politics 101" ...

 

[BarneyFife]

Another stupid smokescreen topic. I want to hear about economics and health care, not abortion, gays in the military, and if the 10 commandments should be displayed at Burger King.

 

[K1052]

It's a political maneuver.

Once he's president he can stock the JCs with officers amenable to ending the policy and paint it as the will of the military that it be done. Notice that he said he wouldn't use a signing statement but says nothing about executive orders (which is how Truman desegregated the military).

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: ScottMac
Typical POLITICIAN hedge: No matter what way he goes, he can say it's what he'd said he was gonna do.

That's like "All Politics 101" ...

Fixed that knee jerk reaction for you.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Another stupid smokescreen topic. I want to hear about economics and health care, not abortion, gays in the military, and if the 10 commandments should be displayed at Burger King.

Maybe because you're not gay? Perhaps the topic of discrimination would be more important to you if you were in the deprived demographic.

 

[lupi]

Without inciting too many of the fanbois, how many of the foundation platforms hasn't he doing some maneuvering around.

 

[Grunt03]

it's all about the vote, no surprise............

 

[Dari]

loki has been severly critical of Obama lately. I wonder why.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Dari
loki has been severly critical of Obama lately. I wonder why.

Maybe because he isn't drinking the BHO koolaid and can see Obama for what he is - just another chicago politician.

 

[Lemon law]

Ok, lets look at the don't ask don't tell military policy from three standpoints. (a) You are gay and you join the military. (b) You are not gay, join the military, and you may or may not get the heebie jeebies when you
discover there are gay people in the military. (c) You are in a military command position, and its your job to worry about how effective is your unit.

IMHO, the military should be weeding out gay people who are simply trying to seduce or force a non gay soldier who does get the heebie jeebies about gay people. And to that extent, that gay person asks for it under don't ask don't tell. On the other hand, if one gay soldier finds another gay soldier and they hook up, they can get away with it infinitely under don't ask don't tell if they are discreet. But if they either allow it to be too open or get caught by our hypothetical non gay soldier prude, they both get booted out under don't ask don't tell. And then the military may lose two otherwise effective and more valuable soldiers to keep some in denial prude sheltered from the real world. And then from a unit effectiveness standpoint, one might wish to make a distinction between combat soldiers who will camp out with their buddies, in essence bunking in close proximity, with specialized personnel like translators who will often work in an office type environment and bunk off base after they complete their 9-5 duty. And in the case of translator and other specialties, our military has certainly lost a tremendous number of very capable gay people and that loss does detract from unit effectiveness.

And in MHO, Obama is making the right signals, the policy of don't ask don't tell should be under review, but it should not be imposed by fiat, but rather should be more of a total group decision. Like all policies, everyone will not be all thrilled, but its still better than being imposed by simple fiat.

And because I do respect Grunt03, I will ask his opinion of this post.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think you are going to have to get used to the fact that Obama is not only extremely practical but deeply intelligent as well.

Homophobia is a deeply ingrained prejudice and it's going to be hell to get rid of. You have to be sure the cure doesn't kill the patient. Good wine takes time to mature. We evolve in fits and starts.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari
loki has been severly critical of Obama lately. I wonder why.

Maybe because he isn't drinking the BHO koolaid and can see Obama for what he is - just another chicago politician.

And what have you been drinking the past eight years?

 

[Moonbeam]

And I see nothing there to indicate he is backing away.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari
loki has been severly critical of Obama lately. I wonder why.

Maybe because he isn't drinking the BHO koolaid and can see Obama for what he is - just another chicago politician.

You have to be demented to think that if you say something that makes it true. And of course it's Koolaid to accuse others of Koolaid. Intelligent people, serious people, offer arguments, examples, and proof. Caddy just makes noise.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari
loki has been severly critical of Obama lately. I wonder why.

Maybe because he isn't drinking the BHO koolaid and can see Obama for what he is - just another chicago politician.

And what have you been drinking the past eight years?

Nothing. I most certainly have been critical of Bush over the last 8 years for what I feel he's done/doing wrong.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari
loki has been severly critical of Obama lately. I wonder why.

Maybe because he isn't drinking the BHO koolaid and can see Obama for what he is - just another chicago politician.

And what have you been drinking the past eight years?

Nothing. I most certainly have been critical of Bush over the last 8 years for what I feel he's done/doing wrong.

And how many times did you vote for him?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ok, lets look at the don't ask don't tell military policy from three standpoints. (a) You are gay and you join the military. (b) You are not gay, join the military, and you may or may not get the heebie jeebies when you
discover there are gay people in the military. (c) You are in a military command position, and its your job to worry about how effective is your unit.

IMHO, the military should be weeding out gay people who are simply trying to seduce or force a non gay soldier who does get the heebie jeebies about gay people. And to that extent, that gay person asks for it under don't ask don't tell. On the other hand, if one gay soldier finds another gay soldier and they hook up, they can get away with it infinitely under don't ask don't tell if they are discreet. But if they either allow it to be too open or get caught by our hypothetical non gay soldier prude, they both get booted out under don't ask don't tell. And then the military may lose two otherwise effective and more valuable soldiers to keep some in denial prude sheltered from the real world. And then from a unit effectiveness standpoint, one might wish to make a distinction between combat soldiers who will camp out with their buddies, in essence bunking in close proximity, with specialized personnel like translators who will often work in an office type environment and bunk off base after they complete their 9-5 duty. And in the case of translator and other specialties, our military has certainly lost a tremendous number of very capable gay people and that loss does detract from unit effectiveness.

And in MHO, Obama is making the right signals, the policy of don't ask don't tell should be under review, but it should not be imposed by fiat, but rather should be more of a total group decision. Like all policies, everyone will not be all thrilled, but its still better than being imposed by simple fiat.

And because I do respect Grunt03, I will ask his opinion of this post.

I don't know where to start with this post because it seems like you're arguing completely opposing viewpoints, but here's my take on it.

Anyone in the military, gay, straight, male or female, who makes persistent, unwanted sexual advances towards anyone else in the military should be reprimanded for harrassment, or removed from duty if it's a chronic problem. I'm not in the military, but I'm fairly certain there are no codes in the UCMJ that prevent male and female soldiers from having romantic relationships (my Army buddy has mentioned several relationships he has had with female soldiers). Why should it be different for two consenting men or women?

My Army buddy also mentioned that he has been in several units that have had gay soldiers and no one ever had a problem with it. They weren't running around trying to fuck everyone in sight, because believe it or not, gays are capable of resisting their sexual urges just as easily as straight men... OK, bad example. But all the bullshit bigotry, the racism, the homophobia (and there are a lot of both in the military) disappear when people put their lives in other people's hands. My friend came back and rattled off some of the extremely un-PC nicknames of guys in his unit, but they were done in a joking way that sounded like it contributed more to breaking down those stereotypes than trying to reinforce them.

Homophobia is not one of those things where we can snap our fingers and *poof* it's gone. It's a deeply ingrained irrational hatred of the "other", and it's going to take many, many years before we see equality across sexuality lines. However, I don't think that's a valid excuse to continue disenfranchising a sizeable chunk of the population, especially when our military is stretched so thin; keeping an entire group of people out of military service who are willing and able to serve is preposterous when we are simultaneously fighting two wars.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari
loki has been severly critical of Obama lately. I wonder why.

Maybe because he isn't drinking the BHO koolaid and can see Obama for what he is - just another chicago politician.

And what have you been drinking the past eight years?

Nothing. I most certainly have been critical of Bush over the last 8 years for what I feel he's done/doing wrong.

And how many times did you vote for him?

Twice. And I'm done voting with pragmatism and the lesser of two evils mentality.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Change you can redefine with a nuanced, ambiguous statement.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Change you can redefine with a nuanced, ambiguous statement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But still much better than the still MIA stuck in the Hanoi Hilton statements of McCain who offers inquiring people exactly nothing.

Come on all you GOP spinners, what is the McCain position on this issue?

Cat got your tongue?

 

[Vic]

Are we all reading the same quote? It seemed pretty that Obama said that he would repeal "don't ask don't tell" if he has the political means and opportunity to do so.

At least he's honest and pragmatic about the political realities. Whereas Bush/McCain are STILL telling people they'll cut govt spending and get Roe v. Wade reversed.

Which are the filthier politics, I wonder... Or is this what people really want to hear from the politicians... that they'll still push some agenda even when it doesn't make sense to do it?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Change you can redefine with a nuanced, ambiguous statement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But still much better than the still MIA stuck in the Hanoi Hilton statements of McCain who offers inquiring people exactly nothing.

Come on all you GOP spinners, what is the McCain position on this issue?

Cat got your tongue?

He holds the same position as Clinton and Colin Powell. It's already been stated in the GOP debates.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Dari
loki has been severly critical of Obama lately. I wonder why.

Maybe because he isn't drinking the BHO koolaid and can see Obama for what he is - just another chicago politician.

And what have you been drinking the past eight years?

Nothing. I most certainly have been critical of Bush over the last 8 years for what I feel he's done/doing wrong.

And how many times did you vote for him?

Twice. And I'm done voting with pragmatism and the lesser of two evils mentality.

So you voted for him twice while being critical? Says a lot about you. All bark and no bite.