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Obama Apologizes for Someone Accidentally Burning a Koran and...

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Orignal Earl said:
Hey, don't single out the airmen.
It was the Marines who thought it would be cool to piss on the dead body's a couple weeks ago.
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Orignal Earl said:
Man..it's taking the US a long time to learn these things.
And they are obviously very important.

Even more important than this
USMC Flag Manual, MCO 10520. Section G.4.c
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Yeah, like that zombie Mohammed guy. He sure had that coming eh? BTW I was referring to religious books. You know those things that people like Christians use. Even then there isn't a call for people to be targeted for executions like Jyllands-Posten was, and we don't execute people who show disrespect to the flag.

So yeah the airmen got it wrong but they didn't piss on anyone like the marines you attempted to link them to.

Perhaps it's those who would kill someone over this who are the real problem. Na, blame the servicemen.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Yeah, like that zombie Mohammed guy. He sure had that coming eh?
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What? No...
In a Country that believes in freedom a guy should be able to wear wtf he wants.
If the dude dressed up as the KKK and went to burning some crosses, wave some Nazi flags out his ass, he should be able to go ahead.


So yeah the airmen got it wrong but they didn't piss on anyone like the marines you attempted to link them to.

Perhaps it's those who would kill someone over this who are the real problem. Na, blame the servicemen.
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Every branch has screwed the pooch in this regard.
And yes, I suppose if it was my job and i screwed it up, I would accept the responsiblity
 
Karzai is a dictator, and the fact that American soldiers are dying every day to prop up this false democracy is disgusting.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
So the prisoners were writing messages to each other thereby already desecrating the Qur'an. Not knowing what they should do with it they ask an Imam who tells them the proper way to dispose of it is to burn it which is what they did. You then piss on the airmen. Nice.
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You seem to be speculating with no evidence.

It still plainly would be the mistake of the soldiers for not getting more details, and assuming burning them with regular rubbish would be fine.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
As far as anyone could know burning was burning. There isn't a special burning rite for bibles or anything else. Maybe those who are having a fit should stop a minute and consider that it was handled as best as anyone knew unless you know for sure that this was done to piss people off like the guy who dressed up as a zombie Mohammed.
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The first claim is of course seriously misleading.

While Jewish torahs and siddurim (prayer books) are not to be burned ordinarily, they are supposed to be buried in a special manner to show respect. (And definitely not supposed to be simply thrown out.)

Furthermore, while the rules are not that firmly established, there is an understanding that Catholics are not really simply supposed to throw away an old bible.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5125390_properly-dispose-catholic-bible.html

While burning it is viewed as an acceptable manner, this is rather clearly supposed to be done in a respectful manner and not as part of a load of trash.

While presumably the action was taken out of ignorance, they were rather painfully clueless. (Especially given the previous riots over reports of the mistreatment of korans.)
 
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Aegeon said:
You seem to be speculating with no evidence.

It still plainly would be the mistake of the soldiers for not getting more details, and assuming burning them with regular rubbish would be fine.
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The soldiers consulted an Imam, he said a desecrated Koran should be burned as soon as possible. The soldiers burned the books.

They tried to be sensitive to the native culture, but the native culture is full of irrational savages.
 
Nebor said:
The soldiers consulted an Imam, he said a desecrated Koran should be burned as soon as possible. The soldiers burned the books.

They tried to be sensitive to the native culture, but the native culture is full of irrational savages.
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The US flag is supposed to be burned if it touches the ground. According to you, it is then perfectly fine (and no one should be upset) if that flag is burned while people chant "Death to America!". They are just burning the flag like they are supposed to, right?

The method of burning is as important as the actual burning.
 
Lanyap said:
They were NATO troops and I have not seen an article indicating they were US troops under NATO.
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I don't think there is any question that it was basically all US troops involved in the key steps involving the burning at this point.

It occurred on a base which primarily consists of US troops, and crucially by now its safe to say if other country's troops had been involved, some sort of press report would have leaked.

The other key detail is at the detainee facility in question, its solely US troops and intelligence personnel allowed inside the facility, with red cross representatives allowed to inspect the facilities every two weeks. You would absolutely expect US troops to be involved with the other details related to managing the facility as well.
 
cybrsage said:
The US flag is supposed to be burned if it touches the ground. According to you, it is then perfectly fine (and no one should be upset) if that flag is burned while people chant "Death to America!". They are just burning the flag like they are supposed to, right?

The method of burning is as important as the actual burning.
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I'm not saying no one should be upset in either case. The Muslim world can get upset over burning Korans, we can get upset over the burning of US flags. But I draw the line at riots, attacks and planned killings in retribution.
 
cybrsage said:
Karzai was voted into office in an election which included multiple choices.
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Karzai was appointed by us because he was the most important\influential person left alive when we arrived in Afghanistan. Since then he's take advantage of the massive corruption and huge social divides to stay in power. None of the Afghan elections have been certified "fair." He's suspected of committing voter fraud even in cases where he would certainly win either way.

Oh, and he's afraid to leave his compound because of assassination fears. That's totally something that democratically elected leaders have to worry about, right?
 
Nebor said:
I'm not saying no one should be upset in either case. The Muslim world can get upset over burning Korans, we can get upset over the burning of US flags. But I draw the line at riots, attacks and planned killings in retribution.
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You have to remember, burning a Quran is a direct attack against Allah. This is how they view it, and our agreement or not is irrelevant. If they say it is then it is.

Their religion demands they fight against people who directly attack Allah. This has been known for a LONG time and should not be a surprise.

What we need is some training for our troops, such that any holy material found be turned over to a chaplain of said faith. That person will know what to do properly.
 
cybrsage said:
The US flag is supposed to be burned if it touches the ground. According to you, it is then perfectly fine (and no one should be upset) if that flag is burned while people chant "Death to America!". They are just burning the flag like they are supposed to, right?

The method of burning is as important as the actual burning.
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getting offended over symbols is but a mere step in the perilous progression toward the poisoned rhetoric that is nationalism.

it's just a flag.
 
Aegeon said:
The first claim is of course seriously misleading.

While Jewish torahs and siddurim (prayer books) are not to be burned ordinarily, they are supposed to be buried in a special manner to show respect. (And definitely not supposed to be simply thrown out.)

Furthermore, while the rules are not that firmly established, there is an understanding that Catholics are not really simply supposed to throw away an old bible.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5125390_properly-dispose-catholic-bible.html

While burning it is viewed as an acceptable manner, this is rather clearly supposed to be done in a respectful manner and not as part of a load of trash.

While presumably the action was taken out of ignorance, they were rather painfully clueless. (Especially given the previous riots over reports of the mistreatment of korans.)
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Yes they were clueless, however they consulted the Imam. They made an honest mistake yet it's been treated as if they were deliberately provoking the populace. We're not used to walking on eggshells where virtually anything can trigger a crisis. We really need to get out because we're damned of we do and damned of we don't.
 
cybrsage said:
You have to remember, burning a Quran is a direct attack against Allah. This is how they view it, and our agreement or not is irrelevant. If they say it is then it is.

Their religion demands they fight against people who directly attack Allah. This has been known for a LONG time and should not be a surprise.

What we need is some training for our troops, such that any holy material found be turned over to a chaplain of said faith. That person will know what to do properly.
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"You have to remember, eating Doritos is a direct attack against Allah. This is how they view it, and our agreement or not is irrelevant. If they say it is, then it is.

Their religion demands they fight against people who directly attack Allah. This has been known for a LONG time and should not be a surprise."

Oh, I'm sorry, that would be fucking ridiculous, to get killed over Doritos. Or a book. 🙄
 
cybrsage said:
What we need is some training for our troops, such that any holy material found be turned over to a chaplain of said faith. That person will know what to do properly.
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There are very, very few Imams in the Chaplain Corps. Most of them get out due to the enormous amount of harassment they receive.

These troops went to the only Imam they had access to, and followed his directions.
 
zinfamous said:
"Commander in Chief."
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So what?

If that alone were sufficient to cause him to apologize he'd be doing it all the time. The military frequently commits errors by killing civilians etc. We don't see him personally apologizing for all mistakes.

Fern
 
The president shows weakness, and his apology won't help calm anything down. Those idiots over there are irrational enough to go around rioting and killing over someone else somewhere burning a book or drawing a cartoon. He should have just said "we regret that it happened, now get over it".
 
cybrsage

"The US flag is supposed to be burned if it touches the ground"

Please cite the relevant section of the flag code that specifies this.

I doubt you have ever read it.
 
jackschmittusa said:
cybrsage

"The US flag is supposed to be burned if it touches the ground"

Please cite the relevant section of the flag code that specifies this.

I doubt you have ever read it.
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Even if you nitpick at his example, the general etiquette for a worn flag that is unfit as a symbol of the US is to burn it in a dignified manner. He mixed up two flag etiquette rules so it's not a huge deal but his point remains that there is a manner of doing things that shows respect. Burning a flag by tossing it into a pile of trash and setting the whole pile of trash ablaze is probably not considered a dignified manner. Similar respect is what others are expecting in the disposal of things they find dear.
 
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