Obama aims to ax moon mission

[Dari]

You are a fucking nutcase.

And you're nuttier if you think pretty little words can run the most powerful country on earth. The president is not a leader in any sense of the word. Axing moon missions? It's the government job to be on the cutting edge of basic research.

 

[sandorski]

It was the best idea Bush had. Unfortunately all his bad ideas brought it to this point. People who say "Cut spending" can now be pleased with Obama. The Cutting has begun.

 

[Red Dawn]

And you're nuttier if you think pretty little words can run the most powerful country on earth. The president is not a leader in any sense of the word. Axing moon missions? It's the government job to be on the cutting edge of basic research.

No I'm sane enough to realize that Obama inherited a catastrophic mess that almost guarantied his first year to be one of enormous trials and tribulations and that hysterical little bitches like you would be sniveling that the sky is falling is he didn't solve the mess by the end of that first year.

 

[woolfe9999]

Obama spends too much money and he's going to bankrupt us, er, except when he cuts a program I like, then he's an asshole for cutting spending...

This is why we as a nation - not our politicians but US - lack the discipline to get out of this fiscal mess. We send way too many mixed signals to our elected officials.

- wolf

 

[hal2kilo]

Obama spends too much money and he's going to bankrupt us, er, except when he cuts a program I like, then he's an asshole for cutting spending...

This is why we as a nation - not our politicians but US - lack the discipline to get out of this fiscal mess. We send way too many mixed signals to our elected officials.

- wolf

You better stop with these level headed common sense comments.

 

[nobodyknows]

This thread seems to be slipping down a P&N slope.

Hell, you think a single party is responsible for the mess we're in? You think the government alone is responsible for the mess we're in?

Not entirely, but pretty much. We had a balanced Budget for s hort time, why the hell did GWB think we needed to invade Iraq without raising taxes to pay for it?

 

[Fern]

Obama spends too much money and he's going to bankrupt us, er, except when he cuts a program I like, then he's an asshole for cutting spending...

This is why we as a nation - not our politicians but US - lack the discipline to get out of this fiscal mess. We send way too many mixed signals to our elected officials.

- wolf

You better stop with these level headed common sense comments.

It's entirely reasonable to support some projects/programs, and not others.

NASA's budget is about $17-18 billion this year, that's pretty damn small compared to other programs etc.

Why is it a Democratic goal to dump billions into green technology (which, by the way, has been the hotest sector in venture capital money for years now making so it gets lots of money already) but not NASA that has proven it develops new technology that the private sector commercializes?

NASA has programs many are not aware of. E.g., it works with many universities who in turn work with enterprebuers developing new technologies for the market. This is the kind of stimulus we can use, instead of the Porkulus we got.

Now that we've confirmed the existence of water on the moon, which may be converted to rocket fuel, oxygen etc for astronauts, it would be a pity to abandon efforts. And turning NASA into a 'political enterprise' focusing on global warming is an abomination.

Fern

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dari
This president needs to resign for the good of the nation. His fawning of our enemies and hatred of all that is good about this great nation is turning his reign into a catastrophe.

You are a fucking nutcase.

The sad part is that for nutcases like him his future prospects were damaged more than most by the 8yrs of GOP debauchery and he is too stupid to realize it and wants more. The GOP's ability to attract the feeble, the angry, and the uneducated like flys to a pile of shit is as strong as it ever was. Just throw out a few buzz words that pander to their base instincts like guns, religion and grandma or play to their irrational fears of guboment, sooocialism, gays and minorities and you have them hook line and sinker.

 

[woolfe9999]

Not entirely, but pretty much. We had a balanced Budget for s hort time, why the hell did GWB think we needed to invade Iraq without raising taxes to pay for it?

The republican party has been fooling the electorate for decades now, trying to pass itself off as fiscally responsible. Anyone who hasn't figured that out after Bush, who is only the most recent and extreme example, is hopelessly deluded.

John McCain typifies this perfectly. He rails on and on about "earmarks" and "pork barrel" spending. He vehemently opposes this 1% of our total spending, he says. Raise taxes? Never, not in a million years, not even if we will go bankrupt if we don't. Cut defense? Never. Cut Medicare and/or Social Security? Why never, that would offend my over 65 voters. "Earmarks" is faux fiscal responsbility packaged for the gullible masses.

Cut and cut works out just fine. Tax and spend works out just fine. But cut and spend, which has been the republican way since Reagan? Come on people.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

It's entirely reasonable to support some projects/programs, and not others.

NASA's budget is about $17-18 billion this year, that's pretty damn small compared to other programs etc.

Why is it a Democratic goal to dump billions into green technology (which, by the way, has been the hotest sector in venture capital money for years now making so it gets lots of money already) but not NASA that has proven it develops new technology that the private sector commercializes?

NASA has programs many are not aware of. E.g., it works with many universities who in turn work with enterprebuers developing new technologies for the market. This is the kind of stimulus we can use, instead of the Porkulus we got.

Now that we've confirmed the existence of water on the moon, which may be converted to rocket fuel, oxygen etc for astronauts, it would be a pity to abandon efforts. And turning NASA into a 'political enterprise' focusing on global warming is an abomination.

Fern

Green technology is at least closer to a semblance of something that can become profitable in the private sector than space exploration. Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm a "sci-fi" sort of guy. I want to see us land on Mars during my lifetime. The problem is that we are in massive debt, and if we're going to spend it a) needs to not be very much, AND b) needs to show a direct economic benefit, at least in the mid term future, oh and c) it needs to be paid for with either new taxes or cuts elsewhere.

While the "moon money" is relatively small, I am using it as example of our hypocrisy about fiscal responsibility and the mixed messages we send. If he can't cut something small like this without a big outcry, how can he cut something big? Today it is the moon; another day it is seniors not wanting cuts to social security or Medicare; still another it is warhawks not wanting defense cuts; still another it is everyone wanting their taxes cut. And all of that against a backdrop of fears over the deficit. Get real people. Either we can sacrifice things we like and support, at least for the time being, or we can quit whining about the deficit, and then we can face the consequences of it.

- wolf

 

[rudder]

I agree with Obama on this one. We will always be able to buy moon rocks on the cheap from China.

 

[Dari]

No I'm sane enough to realize that Obama inherited a catastrophic mess that almost guarantied his first year to be one of enormous trials and tribulations and that hysterical little bitches like you would be sniveling that the sky is falling is he didn't solve the mess by the end of that first year.

Please. What 'catastrophic' mess are you talking about? Dear G-d don't say 'financial crisis' cause that mess started with Clinton. Even so, going along with you, then why would he try to spend trillions more on healthcare without doing anything about the deficit until after the election in Massachusetts? Take off your blinders and get off the president's cock. It's bad for your health to be choking on so much...

 

[rudder]

Not entirely, but pretty much. We had a balanced Budget for s hort time, why the hell did GWB think we needed to invade Iraq without raising taxes to pay for it?

Had he known what he was doing and have people other than Rumsfield and Bremer telling him what to do... Iraq could have been on its own for 5 years now at least. But really... expensive as the Iraq war is.. there are more factors leading to a $3 trillion total deficit this year and next.

 

[sandorski]

Please. What 'catastrophic' mess are you talking about? Dear G-d don't say 'financial crisis' cause that mess started with Clinton. Even so, going along with you, then why would he try to spend trillions more on healthcare without doing anything about the deficit until after the election in Massachusetts? Take off your blinders and get off the president's cock. It's bad for your health to be choking on so much...

Fail

 

[garndawg]

Getting back to topic: Forget the moon.

How about the complete loss of manned spaceflight capability? He's proposing cutting the entire constellation program, which is the Ares lift vehicles (all of them) AND the Orion space capsule.

Shuttle can't last and really needs retirement. Endeavour, the youngest, is 19 years old now. There are only three left and given the stresses they've been exposed to I'm surprised we haven't lost another one already. There is nothing else except the Soyuz, which isn't that swift of a vehicle and has it's own funding problems. You'd be completely dependent upon a foreign semi-hostile politic for your access for at least 8-10 years, which is a VERY long time in global politics.

The overlying assumption in all of this is we can always build one later.

Really?

Think you'll have the engineers to do it then?

Average age of the Aerospace Workforce = 54 (source)
http://www.britannica.com/bps/addit.../Americas-Aerospace-Workforce-at-a-Crossroads

Very few future Aerospace Engineers in the pipeline now. Can you blame them? Why would America's brightest want to enter this field with this kind of political environment? Kill the F-22! Kill Constellation!

I know! Let's let Private Industy build it! We can have a Space Taxi!

Yeah, well, Rutan's group (and others) have made progress, but there is a vast difference between achieving 60 miles altitude and being orbital. Sustained Orbit is beyond even that. Private space taxi may get you up where things turn black, but sustaining orbit requires significantly more engineering than they have the assets to provide.

If the Powers That Be want to kill the Moon/Mars missions, fine. But don't hamstring the only viable option we have for continuing manned spaceflight too. And give the bright 18-22 yr-old wanna'be engineers something to dream about working on.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Moonbeam]

Bush destroyed America. We won't be able to use the toilet much less go to the moon. The party of death won.

 

[Dari]

Fail

So, were you cheering on Obama when he delegated everything to Congress, who duly went on to raise the cap on the deficit and continued to spend like there was no tomorrow? But, when it comes to basic research, the president wants to hear nothing of it. This president sucks.

 

[hal2kilo]

So, were you cheering on Obama when he delegated everything to Congress, who duly went on to raise the cap on the deficit and continued to spend like there was no tomorrow? But, when it comes to basic research, the president wants to hear nothing of it. This president sucks.

Do you get the feeling that someones OX has been gored.

By the way, I'ved worked in the aerospace/ military contracting business for over 30 years.

 

[sandorski]

So, were you cheering on Obama when he delegated everything to Congress, who duly went on to raise the cap on the deficit and continued to spend like there was no tomorrow? But, when it comes to basic research, the president wants to hear nothing of it. This president sucks.

So, were you cheering on Bush when he delegated everything to Congress, who duly went on to raise the cap on the deficit and continued to spend like there was no tomorrow? But, when it comes to basic research, the president wants to hear nothing of it. That president sucked.

 

[dmcowen674]

I agree with Obama on this one. We will always be able to buy moon rocks on the cheap from China and India.

Fixed

 

[Genx87]

Bush destroyed America. We won't be able to use the toilet much less go to the moon. The party of death won.

Clearly, they got the annointed one to break NASA with a near super minority.

 

[Dari]

So, were you cheering on Bush when he delegated everything to Congress, who duly went on to raise the cap on the deficit and continued to spend like there was no tomorrow? But, when it comes to basic research, the president wants to hear nothing of it. That president sucked.

First of all, Bush never delegated anything to Congress. He told them exactly what to do and they followed accordingly. Second, Bush wanted to go to Mars but Obama cannot afford the Moon?

 

[Moonbeam]

Clearly, they got the annointed one to break NASA with a near super minority.

Stop talking to your butt which doubtlessly is the only only that knows to who the annointed one refers. I don't myself speak mystical right wingeese.

 

[werepossum]

Obama spends too much money and he's going to bankrupt us, er, except when he cuts a program I like, then he's an asshole for cutting spending...

This is why we as a nation - not our politicians but US - lack the discipline to get out of this fiscal mess. We send way too many mixed signals to our elected officials.

- wolf

Pretty much this. I hate to see this, but with unemployment pushing eleven percent and entitlements inflated like Tiger Woods' libido, a program like this just doesn't make sense. We have to face facts - we are no longer a nation that has the financial strength or, in all likelihood, the scientific base to accomplish a mission of this sort. Big showy projects like this are now the realm of China and India. Anyway, I highly doubt that NASA is up to the engineering required for a repeat of Apollo.

As to who caused this, the problem dates back to the Carter era. That means we've had eight additional years of Democratic presidents, twelve years of Republican presidents, eight years of a Democratic Congress, and twelve years of a Republican Congress with an opportunity and an obligation to fix this, and instead it's been made worse at every step along the way. Just as Reagan's earned income credit turned into a welfare program, the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac concept started out good. Then Carter used a little bit of it to help low income people buy homes. We were doing well, so we could afford to dip a little lower and lift up those people. It was bumped up regularly over the years by both parties until it was bat-shit crazy, and at the same time we systematically destroyed the protections in place to keep a mortgage sector collapse from causing an investment sector crash. American politicians do not think long term because we do not reward them for thinking long term; we crave short-term benefits, what a politician promises to not take from us and what he promises to take from others and give to us. As Wolf so eloquently said, the problem is us, the American people. Until we can cut the programs we like, we're never even going to slow down our rate of descent no matter who is president or who controls Congress. /soapbox

 

[Fear No Evil]

I guess we can say Obama is even one step closer to Bush in now that he also is anti-science? Apparently BHO will annouce billions for a Tampa to Orlando train tomorrow, but keep NASA funded? Nah! BHO can promise other countries billions in cap and tax.. but fund NASA? Nah! BHO can continue to run illegal wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but fund NASA? Nah!

This man is a complete disgrace to this nation. I wonder how many people would seriously vote GWB over him at this point.. I don't know if its 50% but I bet its damn close.