Obama aims to ax moon mission

[Craig234]

Well said.

I would add this specific point - we need to stop crying about taxes, at least until the deficit situation gets fixed. This business of every politician, which now includes dems like Obama, campaigning on tax cuts when we are over $10 trillion in debt is ludicrous. Yet every politician now has to campaign on a tax cut platform or they can't get elected. It's voter bribery - elect me and I'll pay you - nevermind that we cannot afford to do so.

The truth of this situation is plain. It isn't ideological. It's just math. It's these four things: taxes, military spending, medicare, social security. And it really has to be all four or else there is too large a hit in one area. If it's all tax increases, then the tax increases will crush us. If it's Medicare of SS, then seniors will take a crushing hit. If it's all defense, it will weaken us too much. So it has to be all four. There are no sacred cows. This is math.

My main criticism of Obama - who I like in some respects - is that he doesn't have the balls to do what every other politician doesn't have the balls to do. He should should have viewed his Presidency as a single term from the outset and not given a damn about being re-elected. And he should have said to the American people - sorry guys, but I am going to have to raise your taxes, if not right now, then certainly after the economy is well into recovery. And that means not only the rich, but the middle class. And sorry, I will have to cut Medicare and SS, and that will HURT seniors. And sorry, I am going to cut defense, and yes this will weaken our military to some extent. But those are the breaks, because we have no choice. Or maybe it isn't so much a criticism, because he couldn't have even been elected if he had campaigned on that platform, and he couldn't adopt it suddenly after election or it would have been a bait and switch. The irony is that a politician who will do what we need him to do is not electable in this country. Given that this is the state of affairs, the majority of us have no moral ground to stand on when they complain about deficits, because it's our own damn fault.

- wolf

Wolf, some good points, but remember this. If Obama did exactly as you ask, he has to get Congress to pass the plan - people you say won't.

There's not much point in his putting up a plan that won't pass - it turns him into a politically impotent figure who can't get anything done.

Maybe he should do it to embarrass the Congress - but there's little indication how that would help.

IMO you need to moderate your plan to one that has some way to get past Congress.

 

[Vic]

Good. If humankind is to go to the moon and stay there, successfully, it will not be a govt that does it.

 

[Dari]

Hey you said it with your own words
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2023262&highlight=

BTW it's a Duplex and the meals are home cooked and healthy and not only would I say them, I'd help you find your house after you wandered off in the middle of the afternoon..

Where do you see me saying that? Which post?

 

[Praxis1452]

I'm glad we're not wasting money going back to the moon, it's currently a worthless endeavor, unless someone can prove that it will be profitable.

 

[JEDIYoda]

We would have the money if:
1) Repeal the shamuless package
2) Vote down Obamacare
3) Get Obama out of office.

keep trolling...

 

[Fritzo]

I'm glad we're not wasting money going back to the moon, it's currently a worthless endeavor, unless someone can prove that it will be profitable.

You should read up on things you don't know about before posting stuff like this.

The moon is full of resources that we're probably going to be using for future power generation (namely helium3), as well as provide a station for deep space missions and astronomical research.

 

[BrownShoes]

This will just give me more time to pay off my Lunar Condominium.

 

[Fear No Evil]

So Bush was anti-science for not supporting government funded fetal stem cell research. Why do Obama and the Democrats hate science? Outsourcing our space activities to the Russians seems about as anti-science and anti-american as you can get. Shame on Obama.

 

[Craig234]

So Bush was anti-science for not supporting government funded fetal stem cell research. Why do Obama and the Democrats hate science? Outsourcing our space activities to the Russians seems about as anti-science and anti-american as you can get. Shame on Obama.

Pandering to the religious right, and setting budget priorities based on what ew can afford, are not the same.

 

[woolfe9999]

Wolf, some good points, but remember this. If Obama did exactly as you ask, he has to get Congress to pass the plan - people you say won't.

There's not much point in his putting up a plan that won't pass - it turns him into a politically impotent figure who can't get anything done.

Maybe he should do it to embarrass the Congress - but there's little indication how that would help.

IMO you need to moderate your plan to one that has some way to get past Congress.

Tax increases and many budget measures can pass by way of budget reconciliation with a 51 majority in the Senate. The question is could Obama get the 51 votes between the two political parties, as there would be opposition in both parties to some of these measures.

Doesn't matter because it has to be done and obviously we just don't have the political will in this country to do it.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

So Bush was anti-science for not supporting government funded fetal stem cell research. Why do Obama and the Democrats hate science? Outsourcing our space activities to the Russians seems about as anti-science and anti-american as you can get. Shame on Obama.

What is the human benefit of landing on the moon again versus that of curing a plethora of chronic diseases which are adding massively to our healthcare costs? The problem with killing stem cell research wasn't the broad allegation that Bush was anti-science. It was that he was killing a part of science that has significant public benefit.

- wolf

 

[nobodyknows]

Helium-3? To see if it is indeed abundant on the moon. One would think that all the leftwing enviromentalists that think nuclear is a problem, solar takes up too much space, wind is too noisy and kills birds... that researching a potential energy source that contains a low level of radiation and produces no air or water pollution would be a good thing.

And as far as raising taxes on the wealthy goes... how is that working out for New York state? And yeh everyone should be up in arms about the deficit... 3X the last administrations largest deficit and about the same is projected for quite some time. But this is old news.

And the tightie righties call the liberals starry-eyed dreamers.

Helium-3 might be a good power source for a moon base someday but the idea of mining it and then bringing it back to Earth is pure sicence fiction IMO. If it was a money maker private industry would be all over the goverment to get things going on it long ago. It just a catch term that sounds good when defending the wasting of taxpayers dollars on returning to the moon.

And yes, it's time to raise the taxes on the wealthy. They will just have to make do with a smaller yacht, cut back to only one European vacation per year and maybe even have to sell that seond and/or third home. Lifes a bitch, then you die. Get over it.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

This is fucking sad...to think of all the money we pissed away on pork and now somehow can't afford this. Screw Obama.

 

[kage69]

Given where we're at right now, it's a sound decision. And for the retards now claiming this makes Obama somehow "anti-science," please do yourselves and the rest of us a favor and staple your pieholes shut.

Obama isn't ignoring scientific consensus and bending executive agenda along ideological lines like Cheney did. This is a fiscal decision plain and simple.

Lolz at all the China fear here too... they don't even have a respectable airforce or navy, yet somehow they're going to colonize the moon and rain death and destruction down on their most prominent trade partner!!! Oh noess!!!!

 

[Red Dawn]

This is fucking sad...to think of all the money we pissed away on pork and now somehow can't afford this. Screw Obama.

LOL, our fiscal woes have a lot more to do than money pissed away on pork during this and the last Administration. Screw us,we caused this.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

LOL, our fiscal woes have a lot more to do than money pissed away on pork during this and the last Administration. Screw us,we caused this.

Yeah...screw us. Have a nice day.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Good. If humankind is to go to the moon and stay there, successfully, it will not be a govt that does it.

I'm a conservative (used to be Repubican, and I don't support either party), and I fully believe in the commercialization of space. Look what the US Government did in the 19th century to spur the Railroad industry to build across this country. Granted, there was a lot of bad the railroad baron's did along with the good, but government could use a program like this as a starting point for space exploitation (not exploration).

I also think NASA should play an advisory role much like what DARPA is currently doing. NASA could run contests like the Ansari X Prize.

Look at all the research by all the universities that is going on right now with the continuing DARPA contests. Look at the contests over the past couple of years for the fully automated/autonomous motor vehicles. They simply advertise a contest, define the rules, requirements, and test conditions, and give out millions in award money for the winners. DARPA is saving the US government millions of research dollars by running these types of contests and reaping the rewards for the technology.

Don't get me wrong, I know private industry at this point can't do it all, but I think this is the direction I would point NASA.

 

[Fear No Evil]

What is the human benefit of landing on the moon again versus that of curing a plethora of chronic diseases which are adding massively to our healthcare costs? The problem with killing stem cell research wasn't the broad allegation that Bush was anti-science. It was that he was killing a part of science that has significant public benefit.

- wolf

So nothing good for humanity came out of the first moon program? I would argue it provided 'significant public benefit'. And if thats going to be your benchmark on spending decisions, why can Obama not come up with any more spending cuts? Surely out of our 1.5 trillion dollar deficit, not all of it provides 'significant public benefit'?

 

[Craig234]

And the tightie righties call the liberals starry-eyed dreamers.

Helium-3 might be a good power source for a moon base someday but the idea of mining it and then bringing it back to Earth is pure sicence fiction IMO. If it was a money maker private industry would be all over the goverment to get things going on it long ago. It just a catch term that sounds good when defending the wasting of taxpayers dollars on returning to the moon.

And yes, it's time to raise the taxes on the wealthy. They will just have to make do with a smaller yacht, cut back to only one European vacation per year and maybe even have to sell that seond and/or third home. Lifes a bitch, then you die. Get over it.

Sadly, European vacations and multiple homes are chump change for the crowd we're talking about.

It's really just about owning less of the assets in society - the big companies and such.

They can still go to Europe every month and stay in their homes in each country.

But it is way past time to raise taxes n the wealthy who have skyrocketed from others.

 

[Fear No Evil]

LOL, our fiscal woes have a lot more to do than money pissed away on pork during this and the last Administration. Screw us,we caused this.

It must be nice to never have to make a stand on anything and just say 'everyone sucks'. All you do is troll in every thread about how either Bush sucks, or the current Administration sucks but not as bad as Bush. You never offer up any useful opinions on anything. Most trolls pick one side or the other.. you've managed to pick no side or at least try and make it look like you haven't picked a side, and still be a troll.

Its almost like you are the kid in school who tries to be popular by doing whatever the cool thing of the day/week/month is to do or say and you start parroting it. Pokemon is cool? Red is for it.. Pokemon is lame? Red is against it.. 2 years ago, blame Bush was cool.. now, blame Obama isn't quite cool yet, so the cool thing is blame BOTH sides.

Seriously, grow a pair and come up with a thought of your own other than 'they all suck'.

 

[woolfe9999]

So nothing good for humanity came out of the first moon program? I would argue it provided 'significant public benefit'. And if thats going to be your benchmark on spending decisions, why can Obama not come up with any more spending cuts? Surely out of our 1.5 trillion dollar deficit, not all of it provides 'significant public benefit'?

Stem cell research is clearly a higher public benefit than a *second* moon mission. And who said this is the only thing Obama is cutting?

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

LOL, our fiscal woes have a lot more to do than money pissed away on pork during this and the last Administration. Screw us,we caused this.

How much money was pissed away on "pork" and is what the real cause of our fiscal woes? If you want to define pork more broadly as two foreign wars and a new Medicare entitlement, then I suppose you're correct. But then, you'd be defining all government spending as "pork."

- wolf

 

[Fear No Evil]

Stem cell research is clearly a higher public benefit than a *second* moon mission. And who said this is the only thing Obama is cutting?

- wolf

Got any other examples? With a 1.5 trillion dollar deficit, and a 1.35 trillion dollar deficit the past 2 years.. it doesn't look like Obama and the Dems are cutting much of anything.

I also don't like the risk of having to outsource most of our scientific launch capabilities to other countries. A 2nd moon mission will have a greater impact on humanity I think than 25 billion toward a rail system here nobody will use.

 

[Red Dawn]

It must be nice to never have to make a stand on anything and just say 'everyone sucks'. All you do is troll in every thread about how either Bush sucks, or the current Administration sucks but not as bad as Bush. You never offer up any useful opinions on anything. Most trolls pick one side or the other.. you've managed to pick no side or at least try and make it look like you haven't picked a side, and still be a troll.

Its almost like you are the kid in school who tries to be popular by doing whatever the cool thing of the day/week/month is to do or say and you start parroting it. Pokemon is cool? Red is for it.. Pokemon is lame? Red is against it.. 2 years ago, blame Bush was cool.. now, blame Obama isn't quite cool yet, so the cool thing is blame BOTH sides.

Seriously, grow a pair and come up with a thought of your own other than 'they all suck'.

lol, I'm being lectured about being a troll by the biggest troll on these forums

 

[Fear No Evil]

lol, I'm being lectured about being a troll by the biggest troll on these forums

And gee, you just use that line on everyone too. You need new material.