NYTimes: Al-Qaeda not behind Bengahzi attacks (video in part to blame)

[fskimospy]

I don't know much about how the intelligence community works, but I've got to think that they would place a lot of weight on statements from those people on the ground at the time of the attack since, after all, they were actually there. "Within 24 hours of the attack, both the embassy in Tripoli and the CIA station chief sent word to Washington that it was a planned militant attack."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/libyan-witnesses-recount-organized-benghazi-attack

Yes they would put considerable weight on statements by people who were there, but that would still comprise only a fraction of the analysis. Eyewitness reports are frequently unreliable.

In my opinion, the WH and/or the intelligence community fucked up. If you think they were competent, that's your perogative. But I beg to differ...and to suggest that I have "pretty crazy standard for competence" for having this opinion is ludicrous.

I think the more you look into how intelligence works the more you will see the limitations present. There's a reason why the intelligence community never issues judgments that say "X happened". If it is certain enough you can say that, you don't need the intelligence community. When issuing judgments they use terms like 'high confidence' and 'low confidence'. (and as an example, the Iraq WMD NIE made several wrong judgments with 'high confidence')

I agree that they fucked up, but competent people fuck up sometimes, especially in a business that is as uncertain as intelligence.

 

[werepossum]

I see no credible reports that the Obama admin chose the talking points they liked based on nefarious reasoning (partisan politics or what have you). They apparently chose the wrong pieces of intelligence in the immediate couple weeks proceeding the attack. Nothing particularly scandalous or shocking there.

Frankly, Benghazi is still talked about purely as a partisan tool, nothing more. Doesn't even register with 80% of Americans.

Of course you don't. And you never will.

 

[First]

Of course you don't. And you never will.

I tend not to see things like that because they can't be corroborated. I'm intelligent like that.

 

[Moonbeam]

Its simple. You must have a brain defect because you dare to have a different opinion. Just ask Moonie.

You have a brain defect. Because you have a brain defect any thoughts like it's because you have a different opinion, is going to be defective thinking, which it is here. The advise I would give to DSF, is for one example, because he knows little about how the intelligence community works, have no opinions as to how he thinks it should work. Any assumptions he makes that conform to his uneducated opinion will automatically produce themselves out of the picture he creates from what he does assume he knows. People with a conservative brain defect skew reality to favor their warm and fuzzy beliefs, the beliefs they are comfortable emotionally believing. The conservative brain also does not cope well with uncertainty and has a need to feel certain. These are dangerous traits to have when one wants to apply reason and logic.

The best cure for what is actually egotistical arrogance is to have no opinion. Pull up a chair and allow the world to flow around you without thought or opinion. Relax and be happy. The conservative brain catastrophizes reality because of subconscious fear instilled in childhood. Every single one of your fears have already happened. We have all been through worse than a concentration camp. Trust me. Oh, wait, you can't. But when you do you'll be cured.

 

[TerryMathews]

You have a brain defect. Because you have a brain defect any thoughts like it's because you have a different opinion, is going to be defective thinking, which it is here. The advise I would give to DSF, is for one example, because he knows little about how the intelligence community works, have no opinions as to how he thinks it should work. Any assumptions he makes that conform to his uneducated opinion will automatically produce themselves out of the picture he creates from what he does assume he knows. People with a conservative brain defect skew reality to favor their warm and fuzzy beliefs, the beliefs they are comfortable emotionally believing. The conservative brain also does not cope well with uncertainty and has a need to feel certain. These are dangerous traits to have when one wants to apply reason and logic.

The best cure for what is actually egotistical arrogance is to have no opinion. Pull up a chair and allow the world to flow around you without thought or opinion. Relax and be happy. The conservative brain catastrophizes reality because of subconscious fear instilled in childhood. Every single one of your fears have already happened. We have all been through worse than a concentration camp. Trust me. Oh, wait, you can't. But when you do you'll be cured.

But yet your certainty that we suffer from this "brain defect" actually runs contrary to your own advice... You very clearly have an opinion on this topic and you are not "pulling up a chair and allowing the world to flow around you".

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You have a brain defect. Because you have a brain defect any thoughts like it's because you have a different opinion, is going to be defective thinking, which it is here. The advise I would give to DSF, is for one example, because he knows little about how the intelligence community works, have no opinions as to how he thinks it should work. Any assumptions he makes that conform to his uneducated opinion will automatically produce themselves out of the picture he creates from what he does assume he knows. People with a conservative brain defect skew reality to favor their warm and fuzzy beliefs, the beliefs they are comfortable emotionally believing. The conservative brain also does not cope well with uncertainty and has a need to feel certain. These are dangerous traits to have when one wants to apply reason and logic.

The best cure for what is actually egotistical arrogance is to have no opinion. Pull up a chair and allow the world to flow around you without thought or opinion. Relax and be happy. The conservative brain catastrophizes reality because of subconscious fear instilled in childhood. Every single one of your fears have already happened. We have all been through worse than a concentration camp. Trust me. Oh, wait, you can't. But when you do you'll be cured.

I don't know much about how airplanes work either, but my "brain defect" assures me that I'll have a reasonable chance of arriving at my planned destination. I imagine this expectation would be much better than being fraught with uncertainties. But I can't say for sure. What do you think Moonie...care to offer an opinion?

However, I do have a confession to make while we're on the subject of conservative brain defects in regard to their generally larger amygdala...I actually avoid carrying $10 bills in my front pockets. Why? Because I'm in total fear that Hamilton would cut my balls off if given the chance. :biggrin:

 

[Moonbeam]

But yet your certainty that we suffer from this "brain defect" actually runs contrary to your own advice... You very clearly have an opinion on this topic and you are not "pulling up a chair and allowing the world to flow around you".

This is true and pretty good logical thinking for a change. I am glad you thought about what I said and mounted the most logical response to it, one that I can also see, instead of the usual insults. Thanks.

 

[TerryMathews]

This is true and pretty good logical thinking for a change. I am glad you thought about what I said and mounted the most logical response to it, one that I can also see, instead of the usual insults. Thanks.

:beer:

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't know much about how airplanes work either, but my "brain defect" assures me that I'll have a reasonable chance of arriving at my planned destination. I imagine this expectation would be much better than being fraught with uncertainties. But I can't say for sure. What do you think Moonie...care to offer an opinion?

However, I do have a confession to make while we're on the subject of conservative brain defects in regard to their generally larger amygdala...I actually avoid carrying $10 bills in my front pockets. Why? Because I'm in total fear that Hamilton will cut my balls off. :biggrin:

M: Your brain defect also tells you that you have drawn an analogy that approximates the situation instead of missing it by miles. Try to relax. There are a lot of people in this world who don't even have 10 dollar bills.

Your airplane question, however, I find rather interesting as it happens I don't much like to fly. I'm scared of it. But the alternative which I have investigated for this summer is the Queen Marry, or is it Elizabeth. But with all the sea ice we're having, I'm not even sure of that. But if I go that route and hit a berg, I'll try to post one last time to tell you so you can laugh your ass off. It would be a fitting way to cap my life before they all disappear.

 

[Matt1970]

People with a conservative brain defect skew reality to favor their warm and fuzzy beliefs, the beliefs they are comfortable emotionally believing. The conservative brain also does not cope well with uncertainty and has a need to feel certain.

Can you show me where in your 16 peer-reviewed studies they came to that conclusion?

http://2012election.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004818

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The only person that came to that conclusion is Moonbeam, all that he hates actually resides within himself and the only thoughts he has on to easing the pain/frustration is lash out against those he blames for his pain/frustration.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

M: Your brain defect also tells you that you have drawn an analogy that approximates the situation instead of missing it by miles. Try to relax. There are a lot of people in this world who don't even have 10 dollar bills.

I'm terrible at making up analogies but was hoping that you would get the gist of what I was trying to say. But why would you say that there are a lot of people in this world who don't even have 10 dollar bills? You know full well I grew up in poverty.

Your airplane question, however, I find rather interesting as it happens I don't much like to fly. I'm scared of it. But the alternative which I have investigated for this summer is the Queen Marry, or is it Elizabeth. But with all the sea ice we're having, I'm not even sure of that. But if I go that route and hit a berg, I'll try to post one last time to tell you so you can laugh your ass off. It would be a fitting way to cap my life before they all disappear.

You had no business expecting the boat to float anyway...perhaps you're the one who should be laughing at himself for such foolishness.

 

[boomerang]

 

[Moonbeam]

Doc Savage Fan: I'm terrible at making up analogies but was hoping that you would get the gist of what I was trying to say.

M: I didn't get it, sorry. You don't know how a plane may work but you are rational enough to understand that you are safer in one than driving your car. In the case here, you may have your own dogs in the fight. In short, where a person can exercise rational judgment they may come to rational decisions that other people may also find rational. In this case you look for all the world to me like a person seeing the Benghazi thingi through partisan colored lenses. For example, I have not the slightest idea whether the attack was a result of a video or the result of Al Quaeda planning.


DSF: But why would you say that there are a lot of people in this world who don't even have 10 dollar bills? You know full well I grew up in poverty.

M: I have developed the bad habit of trying to overcome my natural callousness and indifference to life, by trying where I can to remind myself of all the good things I have. I need it more than you do, most likely, because I didn't grow up poor. I grew up in total security and have never known want. I am very rare most likely.

DSF: You had no business expecting the boat to float anyway...perhaps you're the one who should be laughing at himself for such foolishness.

M: I don't understand this. Which boat?

 

[Moonbeam]

Have you tried comic books. They are very good at conveying ideas with pictures. They are an excellent way to reach a conservative low level information irrational brain. The ideas that require language to communicate are just too complicated. Doubtless why you skip right over my posts.

 

[boomerang]

you skip right over my posts.

How does that make you feel?

 

[Moonbeam]

Can you show me where in your 16 peer-reviewed studies they came to that conclusion?

http://2012election.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004818

Study #4 for uncertainty:

The following is a general look at the brain scan results in liberal and conservative brains:

Past studies, as well as the ones mentioned here, have shown that liberals are more likely to respond to “informational complexity, ambiguity, and novelty”. Considering the role of the ACC in conflict monitoring, error detection, and pattern recognition/ evaluation, this would make perfect sense. Liberals, according to this model, would be likely to engage in more flexible thinking, working through alternate possibilities before committing to a choice. Even after committing, if alternate contradicting data comes along, they would be more likely to consider it. Sound familiar? This is how science works, and why there might be so many correlations between scientific beliefs (and lesser belief in religion) and tendency to be liberal. Is this a hard and fast rule? Of course not. But you can see the group differences overall.

Now let’s look at the other side. Conservatives, more likely to have an enlarged amygdala, would tend to process information initially using emotion. According to Kanai,

Conservatives respond to threatening situations with more aggression than do liberals and are more sensitive to threatening facial expressions. This heightened sensitivity to emotional faces suggests that individuals with conservative orientation might exhibit differences in brain structures associated with emotional processing such as the amygdala.

So, when faced with an ambiguous situation, conservatives would tend to process the information initially with a strong emotional response. This would make them less likely to lean towards change, and more likely to prefer stability. Stability means more predictability, which means more expected outcomes, and less of a trigger for anxiety.

Liberals, though, tend toward unpredictability. They don’t mind change, and in fact, they prefer it. They seek it out. This personality type would likely choose “change” over “stability” just because they tend to be more novelty-seeking by nature. The fact that they have a more prominent ACC helps them to deal with radically changing situations, still find the salient points, all without the emotion getting in the way. These individuals are the compartmentalizers, the logic-driven ones, while the conservatives are the ones driven by emotion and empathy.

 

[Moonbeam]

How does that make you feel?

No different than if you read it carefully. The results are the same. But I don't mind pointing out to others your mental condition. You have a lot to teach in what not to be.

 

[theeedude]

Adults are on the story now, time for Fox News kiddies to step aside.

 

[michal1980]

Adults are on the story now, time for Fox News kiddies to step aside.

the Hillary Clinton campaign team?

 

[Matt1970]

Study #4 for uncertainty:

The following is a general look at the brain scan results in liberal and conservative brains:

Past studies, as well as the ones mentioned here, have shown that liberals are more likely to respond to “informational complexity, ambiguity, and novelty”. Considering the role of the ACC in conflict monitoring, error detection, and pattern recognition/ evaluation, this would make perfect sense. Liberals, according to this model, would be likely to engage in more flexible thinking, working through alternate possibilities before committing to a choice. Even after committing, if alternate contradicting data comes along, they would be more likely to consider it. Sound familiar? This is how science works, and why there might be so many correlations between scientific beliefs (and lesser belief in religion) and tendency to be liberal. Is this a hard and fast rule? Of course not. But you can see the group differences overall.

Now let’s look at the other side. Conservatives, more likely to have an enlarged amygdala, would tend to process information initially using emotion. According to Kanai,

Conservatives respond to threatening situations with more aggression than do liberals and are more sensitive to threatening facial expressions. This heightened sensitivity to emotional faces suggests that individuals with conservative orientation might exhibit differences in brain structures associated with emotional processing such as the amygdala.

So, when faced with an ambiguous situation, conservatives would tend to process the information initially with a strong emotional response. This would make them less likely to lean towards change, and more likely to prefer stability. Stability means more predictability, which means more expected outcomes, and less of a trigger for anxiety.

Liberals, though, tend toward unpredictability. They don’t mind change, and in fact, they prefer it. They seek it out. This personality type would likely choose “change” over “stability” just because they tend to be more novelty-seeking by nature. The fact that they have a more prominent ACC helps them to deal with radically changing situations, still find the salient points, all without the emotion getting in the way. These individuals are the compartmentalizers, the logic-driven ones, while the conservatives are the ones driven by emotion and empathy.

That is absolutely not what it says and you know it. There is no mention whatsoever of conservatives responding to threatening situations with more aggression or skew reality to favor their warm and fuzzy beliefs. That is your own bullshit conclusions. It merely says individuals with a larger amygdala are more sensitive to fear.

 

[Moonbeam]

That is absolutely not what it says and you know it. There is no mention whatsoever of conservatives responding to threatening situations with more aggression or skew reality to favor their warm and fuzzy beliefs. That is your own bullshit conclusions. It merely says individuals with a larger amygdala are more sensitive to fear.

Probably the reason you have such a warm and fuzzy belief is because the truth would be painful for you to contemplate. In short you believe in warm and fuzzy things because you are afraid of reality and have to deny what is for an altered warm and fuzzy reality. Global climate deniers believe their warm and fuzzy dreams because they don't want to see their denial can kill the planet. You couldn't be the total fool that you are if it didn't make you happy. Nobody would care but your brain defect is dangerous to life on earth. Sorry. I would love to let you be with your smug blind arrogance but, you see, you are a danger and a threat. Try to be more thoughtful for the children not born yet. You are part of a horrible contagion. I can't just pat you on the back while you destroy the world. You have set yourself in apposition to the truth for your own selfish reasons. Shame on you. Shame on you. It's nothing personal but denial is evil.

 

[theeedude]

the Hillary Clinton campaign team?

You can indulge your conspiracy theories all you want.

 

[Matt1970]

Probably the reason you have such a warm and fuzzy belief is because the truth would be painful for you to contemplate. In short you believe in warm and fuzzy things because you are afraid of reality and have to deny what is for an altered warm and fuzzy reality. Global climate deniers believe their warm and fuzzy dreams because they don't want to see their denial can kill the planet. You couldn't be the total fool that you are if it didn't make you happy. Nobody would care but your brain defect is dangerous to life on earth. Sorry. I would love to let you be with your smug blind arrogance but, you see, you are a danger and a threat. Try to be more thoughtful for the children not born yet. You are part of a horrible contagion. I can't just pat you on the back while you destroy the world. You have set yourself in apposition to the truth for your own selfish reasons. Shame on you. Shame on you. It's nothing personal but denial is evil.

You are such an idiot. I knew you couldn't actually back anything up.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

The real story of the Benghazi incident is one that will probably never be told -- Republicans became emotionally involved and invested in wasting time and effort investigating a small terrorist attack when they should have been trying to solve our nation's health care and economic problems. In other words, the Republicans are more concerned about trying to pin a scandal on a president from the opposing party than they are with addressing the nation's real problems.