NY Judge rules that you only have constitutional rights if you're rich

[fskimospy]

Geesh, I backed it up and you keep dodging the question. Once you start charging people to exercise their rights guaranteed to them by the constitution. you are on the downhill slide towards Totalitarianism.

If you can get a drivers license that's good for 5 years for $25 then how much can it cost to issue a gun license. Any amount is unreasonable, but for the sake of argument we will allow the state to cover their costs of administration.

How much should it cost for that? If the question is too hard for you, then say so.

You have most certainly not backed it up. I also have no idea why the fees for an unrelated licensing should have anything to do with this sort of registration. As for charging people to exercise their rights being unreasonable, the USSC disagrees with you.

I have no idea how much that fee would be, that's your job to figure out as you're the one that keeps claiming it's unreasonable. How many times do I have to tell you this? Instead of responding to me, go find the ordinances that NYC passed for these laws as well as the justifications for them. Then you'll know if their justification is reasonable or not.

Sorry, you don't get to just declare things to be true and then force people to disprove your wild accusations. The burden is on you, so get to work.

 

[nobodyknows]

You have most certainly not backed it up. I also have no idea why the fees for an unrelated licensing should have anything to do with this sort of registration. As for charging people to exercise their rights being unreasonable, the USSC disagrees with you.

I have no idea how much that fee would be, that's your job to figure out as you're the one that keeps claiming it's unreasonable. How many times do I have to tell you this? Instead of responding to me, go find the ordinances that NYC passed for these laws as well as the justifications for them. Then you'll know if their justification is reasonable or not.

Sorry, you don't get to just declare things to be true and then force people to disprove your wild accusations. The burden is on you, so get to work.

The judge says there's no evidence the fee has stopped anyone from exercising their rights. He says the city showed the fee helps cover administrative costs.

Why look, the judge says there no evidence the fee has stopped anyone form exercising their rights. LOL, aren't you going to challange him to back up that claim? This law is OK with you (since you defend it) but I'm held to a different standard then the judge? Hypocrite.

He also says the city showed the fee helps cover administrative costs. I'd sure like to see those figures because I don't see how it can cost that much, ergo without any real documents to examine I'm of the opinion that $330 for a gun permit is unreasonable. Talk about a kangeroo court.

 

[nobodyknows]

It is facially evident that the poor are "disproportionately affected" by this fee.

 

[nobodyknows]

Manhattan Federal Court Judge John Koeltl [above] has ruled that The Big Apple’s $340 gun permit fee—payable every three years for the “right” to keep a gun in your home—does not violate islanders’ right to keep and bear arms. “There is no evidence that the fee has deterred or is likely to deter any individual from exercising his or her Second Amendment right.” According to the nydailynews.com, Judge Koeltl’s ruling relied on the fact that courts have approved significantly higher fees for other city permits, citing a ruling that permitted a $3,000 adult business license fee. ‘Cause exercising a constitutional right to armed self-defense is the same as opening a porn palace

Something tells me we not not have heard the end of this. Bear in mind this fee is not for a concealed carry permit, This is just to legally have a handgun in your residence.

 

[fskimospy]

Why look, the judge says there no evidence the fee has stopped anyone form exercising their rights. LOL, aren't you going to challange him to back up that claim? This law is OK with you (since you defend it) but I'm held to a different standard then the judge? Hypocrite.

He also says the city showed the fee helps cover administrative costs. I'd sure like to see those figures because I don't see how it can cost that much, ergo without any real documents to examine I'm of the opinion that $330 for a gun permit is unreasonable. Talk about a kangeroo court.

Is this a serious post? Please tell me you are kidding and you aren't this ignorant. Judges DO back up their claims, they write large legal documents specifically backing up their claims. We call them "legal opinions" and they come with rulings such as this one. You're just making yourself look worse and worse here.

EDIT: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1382758909302917316&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr Here's the opinion. I haven't read it. See what the judge did though? You don't have to do all that, but a couple of actual facts would be nice.

At least at this point you're admitting that your statement that the fee is unreasonable is based on nothing. We are moving in the right direction. The thing is that if you were to actually provide evidence you could most certainly convince me that the fee was unreasonable. Instead you'd rather babble and incoherently foam about something you just admitted you know nothing about.

 

[nobodyknows]

Is this a serious post? Please tell me you are kidding and you aren't this ignorant. Judges DO back up their claims, they write large legal documents specifically backing up their claims. We call them "legal opinions" and they come with rulings such as this one. You're just making yourself look worse and worse here.

EDIT: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1382758909302917316&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr Here's the opinion. I haven't read it. See what the judge did though? You don't have to do all that, but a couple of actual facts would be nice.

At least at this point you're admitting that your statement that the fee is unreasonable is based on nothing. We are moving in the right direction. The thing is that if you were to actually provide evidence you could most certainly convince me that the fee was unreasonable. Instead you'd rather babble and incoherently foam about something you just admitted you know nothing about.

Any fee that prevents me from having a handgun in my own home is unreasonable. I don't care what they charge for porn house permits.

From my understanding they based their fee on what it costs to issue a concealed carry permit. This is just to have a handgun in your home. It's obviously unreasonable to charge the same amount for having a handgun in your home as you charge for a permit to carry a handgun.

That is not right and as I stated earlier, it is facially evident that the poor are "disproportionately affected" by this fee.

I predict this law will eventually be struck down.

 

[nobodyknows]

Is this a serious post? Please tell me you are kidding and you aren't this ignorant. Judges DO back up their claims, they write large legal documents specifically backing up their claims. We call them "legal opinions" and they come with rulings such as this one. You're just making yourself look worse and worse here.

LOL, the judge stated that there is no evidence that the fee has stopped anyone from exercising their rights. How can he know that since the law is so new? He may have an opinion, but it's pretty easy to see right through it. He had to say that to justify his decision, but he isn't required to back it up with any facts. Show me a study that supports this opinion.

In NY state, the license fee is capped at $10. Nassau County charges $200 for a 5 year permit, so why does NYC require $340 for a 3 year permit? That seems rather excessive to me. Activist judge?

 

[fskimospy]

Any fee that prevents me from having a handgun in my own home is unreasonable. I don't care what they charge for porn house permits.

From my understanding they based their fee on what it costs to issue a concealed carry permit. This is just to have a handgun in your home. It's obviously unreasonable to charge the same amount for having a handgun in your home as you charge for a permit to carry a handgun.

That is not right and as I stated earlier, it is facially evident that the poor are "disproportionately affected" by this fee.

I predict this law will eventually be struck down.

Facially evident = I have no facts.

You predict based on nothing, your prediction is worthless. Even worse, when presented with an opportunity to educate yourself by reading the judicial opinion you have apparently declined. You can lead a horse to water...

There's really nothing more to say on this. You've shit your pants badly enough for one thread.

 

[nobodyknows]

Facially evident = I have no facts.

You predict based on nothing, your prediction is worthless. Even worse, when presented with an opportunity to educate yourself by reading the judicial opinion you have apparently declined. You can lead a horse to water...

There's really nothing more to say on this. You've shit your pants badly enough for one thread.

You haven't refuted anything. Your just trying to act aloof and arrogant with out saying anything. You're just chickenshit.

 

[fskimospy]

LOL, the judge stated that there is no evidence that the fee has stopped anyone from exercising their rights. How can he know that since the law is so new? He may have an opinion, but it's pretty easy to see right through it. He had to say that to justify his decision, but he isn't required to back it up with any facts. Show me a study that supports this opinion.

In NY state, the license fee is capped at $10. Nassau County charges $200 for a 5 year permit, so why does NYC require $340 for a 3 year permit? That seems rather excessive to me. Activist judge?

1.) Judicial activism in America is shorthand for "a ruling I don't like".

2.) Even under the highly skewed understanding of judicial activism in America, the term refers to a judge substituting his own views on the law for the duly enacted statutes of the legislature. Upholding laws as they are is in fact the exact opposite of judicial activism.

 

[nobodyknows]

In NY state, the license fee is capped at $10. Nassau County charges $200 for a 5 year permit, so why does NYC require $340 for a 3 year permit? That seems rather excessive to me. Activist judge?

Why does it cost NYC 34 times what it costs the state for the same permit?

 

[fskimospy]

You haven't refuted anything. Your just trying to act aloof and arrogant with out saying anything. You're just chickenshit.

I'm sorry if you view me repeatedly showing that your position is entirely without support is 'aloof and arrogant'. There's nothing to refute because you haven't made a single valid point other than throwing a temper tantrum.

I think of it as 'calling you out on your obvious bullshit'.

 

[fskimospy]

Why does it cost NYC 34 times what it costs the state for the same permit?

There's nothing that says that permits cost NY state $10 to issue, it only says that's what it charges. There are many things that states charge less than the total cost for in fees. Just because other areas may subsidize these permits does not mean that NYC must do so.

Are you seriously this bad at making arguments?

 

[nobodyknows]

1.) Judicial activism in America is shorthand for "a ruling I don't like".

2.) Even under the highly skewed understanding of judicial activism in America, the term refers to a judge substituting his own views on the law for the duly enacted statutes of the legislature. Upholding laws as they are is in fact the exact opposite of judicial activism.

I've heard you complain about judicial activism before. You mean you were being hypocritical? Why am I not surprised?

New laws come up all the time so judges should always uphold them? LOL @ U

 

[fskimospy]

I've heard you complain about judicial activism before. You mean you were being hypocritical? Why am I not surprised?

New laws come up all the time so judges should always uphold them? LOL @ U

You aren't even making sense anymore.

You've clearly become angry that I keep shooting you down and I don't think you're capable of discussing this rationally. I strongly suggest you take a break, calm down, and actually read the opinion that this is all based on. I'll link it again for you:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=1382758909302917316&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

I've been extremely patient with you so far, much more than you deserve.

 

[nobodyknows]

I'm sorry if you view me repeatedly showing that your position is entirely without support is 'aloof and arrogant'. There's nothing to refute because you haven't made a single valid point other than throwing a temper tantrum.

I think of it as 'calling you out on your obvious bullshit'.

My beileif in the 2nd Amendment as written is obvious bullshit? Really?

The fact that some people won't be able to afford this permit is fine with you because your a gun grabber. Perhaps if you weren't so aloof with weveryone you wouldn't be running scared of guns like you are.

 

[fskimospy]

My beileif in the 2nd Amendment as written is obvious bullshit? Really?

The fact that some people won't be able to afford this permit is fine with you because your a gun grabber. Perhaps if you weren't so aloof with weveryone you wouldn't be running scared of guns like you are.

I am not a gun grabber, I am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. I'm just not stupid about it like you are.

I am very willing to bet that I have shot a greater variety of firearms more times in my life than you have. I was in the military for seven years, I know how to handle a gun. I also know what it takes to make a coherent argument, and I'm still waiting for one from you.

 

[nobodyknows]

You aren't even making sense anymore.

I've been extremely patient with you so far, much more than you deserve.

LOL there you go again with your aloofness. You don't like the fact I disagee. That I can handle, but I've put forth honest questions which you continue to sidestep.

You claim that NY state is subsidizing the gun permits. Back that claim up.

 

[nobodyknows]

I am not a gun grabber, I am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. I'm just not stupid about it like you are.

I am very willing to bet that I have shot a greater variety of firearms more times in my life than you have. I was in the military for seven years, I know how to handle a gun. I also know what it takes to make a coherent argument, and I'm still waiting for one from you.

What does having shot a variety of firearms have to do with anythinhg. LOL you're thye one being nonsensical.

 

[fskimospy]

LOL there you go again with your aloofness. You don't like the fact I disagee. That I can handle, but I've put forth honest questions which you continue to sidestep.

You claim that NY state is subsidizing the gun permits. Back that claim up.

I did not claim that NY state subsidized gun permits, I stated that states no not always charge full costs for licensing and that may be the cause. You're now so fixated on beating me that your reading comprehension has gotten even worse.

Take my advice from before. Calm down, do some reading, and come back.

 

[fskimospy]

What does having shot a variety of firearms have to do with anythinhg. LOL you're thye one being nonsensical.

You said I 'run scared from guns'. I was responding that I do not, due to my fairly strong familiarity with them.

 

[nobodyknows]

You said I 'run scared from guns'. I was responding that I do not, due to my fairly strong familiarity with them.

And you said that YOU have shot more of a variety of guns then me. That proves nothing about being or not being afraid of guns.

How many do you currently own? That would tell me more.

 

[nobodyknows]

I did not claim that NY state subsidized gun permits, I stated that states no not always charge full costs for licensing and that may be the cause. You're now so fixated on beating me that your reading comprehension has gotten even worse.

Take my advice from before. Calm down, do some reading, and come back.

There's nothing that says that permits cost NY state $10 to issue, it only says that's what it charges. There are many things that states charge less than the total cost for in fees. Just because other areas may subsidize these permits does not mean that NYC must do so.

Are you seriously this bad at making arguments?

That sure looks like the word subsidy to me? Now back the claim up.

 

[Darwin333]

Well, first, the outrage over the ID laws is a fully justified outrage. Second, this unlike the voter ID laws is not being done explicitly for political purposes.

As far as this goes, I feel guns should be registered. Having them be on file somewhere is a good idea. A fee of $340 to cover administrative costs seems quite high for that. Having that fee be every 3 years seems ridiculous. Any fee for registration should be a one time fee of a reasonible cost. Only time the fee should be charged again is if the gun changes owners and thus has to be re-registered to someone else.

I see no reason that people who decide to exercise their right to vote shouldn't have to pay a fee to cover the administration of said right. See how that works? It doesn't matter if its political bullshit or not it is really black and white. Either the .gov can charge you a fee before you can "freely" exercise a basic right or not, which shall it be?

 

[bfdd]

lol @ people saying "DIFFERENT THAN POLL TAX!!" no it isn't idiots. voting is a right, owning a firearm is a right, putting a fee for entrance to either is exactly the same. only the twisted mind of a hypocrite would think otherwise. tools