NY Judge rules that you only have constitutional rights if you're rich

[schneiderguy]

Now lets compare the frequency of voter id fraud crimes vs the frequency of gun related crimes. Guess what, gun related crimes is a way higher occurrence. Even if you go with gun related crimes by legal owners of registered firearms vs voter fraud rate in an area with no voter id law, gun related crimes is still way higher. Voter fraud crimes, almost non-existant. Statistically you're more likely to be struck by lightning than to even know someone who committed vote fraud. Now imagine if no guns ever had to be registered and thus anyone who bought a gun could use it in a crime and it was untraceable! How do you think that would affect gun crime rates?

Also, a gun purchaser is already making a purchase. They're already choosing to spend money on a firearm. Voting, by law, is free.

How exactly does registering guns make gun crime go down?

 

[monovillage]

I love watching them wiggle and squirm and then act all self righteous about it.

 

[xBiffx]

Now lets compare the frequency of voter id fraud crimes vs the frequency of gun related crimes. Guess what, gun related crimes is a way higher occurrence. Even if you go with gun related crimes by legal owners of registered firearms vs voter fraud rate in an area with no voter id law, gun related crimes is still way higher. Voter fraud crimes, almost non-existant. Statistically you're more likely to be struck by lightning than to even know someone who committed vote fraud. Now imagine if no guns ever had to be registered and thus anyone who bought a gun could use it in a crime and it was untraceable! How do you think that would affect gun crime rates?

Also, a gun purchaser is already making a purchase. They're already choosing to spend money on a firearm. Voting, by law, is free.

I'd love to see proof of all the bullshit you just said.

I, on the other hand, don't need to show any proof that gun laws don't reduce crime. Why? Well, what exactly makes you think a criminal is going to follow a gun law? The ID/registration requirements assure that a criminal can't buy a gun from a shop/show but they don't prevent purchases on the black market.

On the other hand ID/registration requirements for voting would assure that someone can't vote fraudulently. Do I have to prove that assuring that the person casting a ballot is who they say they are will eliminate them voting as someone else or in a location they aren't registered in? These requirements wouldn't of course prevent voting on the black market but I'm not sure too many on either side are too worried about that.

 

[dmcowen674]

NY Judge rules that you only have constitutional rights if you're rich

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP9d1f735ecc5246de8a5671426791f40f.html

This shouldn't be a surprise.

There has been a movement to get the poor to leave the U.S. for quite some time now.

 

[xj0hnx]

How exactly does registering guns make gun crime go down?

Dude, because when the criminals register their guns we'll be able to track them after they commit crimes, duh.

 

[fskimospy]

They also ruled that the individuals right to bear arms applies to local gun control laws. Putting an unreasonable fee on the right to own a handgun means that only the well off and the criminals will have handguns. Clearly the state is trying to infringe on that supreme court ruling. Where is your outrage?

I like how you manufacture an idea of what is an unreasonable fee and then expect me to jump on board. Once again, you guys expose your ignorance.

 

[fskimospy]

So why is it OK for some rights to have fees applied to them but not others?

Would you support a free speech license for the low low price of $100 a year?

I like how you expect other people to educate you on this idea when you are the one who made this stupid thread. There is a large body of literature on exactly the questions you ask, why don't you go read it?

 

[Rainsford]

I love watching them wiggle and squirm and then act all self righteous about it.

I like how much I really can't manage to summon up a lot of caring about this issue, DESPITE thinking that it's wrong to charge for this sort of thing, just because people are being so annoying with their outrage about the lack of outrage (or whatever the problem is).

People should consider that sometimes issues are best approached as issues, rather than some opportunity to score points against the other guys. In this particular case, pointing out that liberal opposition to poll taxes is the perfect reason for them to be against ridiculous gun registration fees.

 

[monovillage]

I like how much I really can't manage to summon up a lot of caring about this issue, DESPITE thinking that it's wrong to charge for this sort of thing, just because people are being so annoying with their outrage about the lack of outrage (or whatever the problem is).

People should consider that sometimes issues are best approached as issues, rather than some opportunity to score points against the other guys. In this particular case, pointing out that liberal opposition to poll taxes is the perfect reason for them to be against ridiculous gun registration fees.

Sorry, but I just get a kick out of the tap dance so many on the left have to perform when confronted by the Right to keep and bear arms. Anyone that doesn't get a chuckle out of the ACLU's position on the 2nd Amendment just doesn't have a political sense of humor.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Heres my thoughts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j3_DUqKyTk

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I like how much I really can't manage to summon up a lot of caring about this issue, DESPITE thinking that it's wrong to charge for this sort of thing, just because people are being so annoying with their outrage about the lack of outrage (or whatever the problem is).

People should consider that sometimes issues are best approached as issues, rather than some opportunity to score points against the other guys. In this particular case, pointing out that liberal opposition to poll taxes is the perfect reason for them to be against ridiculous gun registration fees.

I'm against charging people to vote and I'm also against unreasonable fees and laws which have draconian penalties. It looks like the Marine gave up and finally pled a lesser charge. Others have had permits assuming (mistakenly) that because they have a permit and the Second covers the right to bear arms there would be reciprocity in place. Yes "well that's their fault" I know, however when someone tries to do the right thing by declaring an unloaded weapon in a locked box then faces penalties more in line with battery that's hardly justice.

Then again it isn't a safety issue to begin with.

 

[cave_dweller]

It will stop poor people from murdering each other. Oh wait we already have religion for that

 

[jagec]

I, on the other hand, don't need to show any proof that gun laws don't reduce crime. Why? Well, what exactly makes you think a criminal is going to follow a gun law? The ID/registration requirements assure that a criminal can't buy a gun from a shop/show but they don't prevent purchases on the black market.

I'm not exactly a proponent of gun registration, but your reasoning reminds me of the old Mark Twain quote: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but the fact that you don't even care to find out because you think that it's "obvious" is troubling. After all, it's simplistic to think that the black market and legitimate market do not affect each other in any way, are equally accessible, and sell goods at a similar price. But those assumptions are essential for your argument to hold true.

 

[xBiffx]

I'm not exactly a proponent of gun registration, but your reasoning reminds me of the old Mark Twain quote: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but the fact that you don't even care to find out because you think that it's "obvious" is troubling. After all, it's simplistic to think that the black market and legitimate market do not affect each other in any way, are equally accessible, and sell goods at a similar price. But those assumptions are essential for your argument to hold true.

By definition we can't regulate and control through laws what is bought and sold on the black market so there really is no point in trying to pass a law targeting control of the legitimate market instead. I'm not sure what could be more obvious.

 

[nobodyknows]

I like how you manufacture an idea of what is an unreasonable fee and then expect me to jump on board. Once again, you guys expose your ignorance.

Show me where it costs $340 to administer the costs of issuing a gun permit and you might have a point. Otherwise your just full of bullshit.

 

[cave_dweller]

buy a $50 gun with a $340 registration fee lol
Gotta love it

 

[boomerang]

What, no outrage over having to show ID to take the ACT, SAT tests?

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/tighter-security-for-sat-1399495.html

The millions of students who take the SAT or ACT each year will have to submit photos of themselves when they sign up for the college entrance exams, under a host of new security measures announced Tuesday in the aftermath of a major cheating scandal on Long Island.

 

[xBiffx]

What, no outrage over having to show ID to take the ACT, SAT tests?

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/tighter-security-for-sat-1399495.html

Students don't have constitutional rights, duh dude.

 

[sm625]

They could charge $56,542 for a permit and you would still have some corrupt hack judge saying bla bla bla nothing to see here bla bla bla. It's called bribery, extortion, and just plain stupidity on the part of the populace that allows this sort of thing to continue.

 

[Genx87]

I'm against charging people to vote and I'm also against unreasonable fees and laws which have draconian penalties. It looks like the Marine gave up and finally pled a lesser charge. Others have had permits assuming (mistakenly) that because they have a permit and the Second covers the right to bear arms there would be reciprocity in place. Yes "well that's their fault" I know, however when someone tries to do the right thing by declaring an unloaded weapon in a locked box then faces penalties more in line with battery that's hardly justice.

Then again it isn't a safety issue to begin with.

Exactly. Somebody who is doing the right thing is then charged with a crime is a travesty. This guy was not a safety threat and willingly turned in his secured firearm.

 

[Matt1970]

But it costs money to keep servers (?) up and running. =\

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Firearms_Registry

But NY STATE does it just fine with a one time fee less than 1/2 that. If you want to own a handgun, NY City is NOT the place to do it. State issued conceal/carry permits are null and void there. They don't even want Police Officers from jusidictions outside NY City to carry a gun there.

 

[fskimospy]

What, no outrage over having to show ID to take the ACT, SAT tests?

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/tighter-security-for-sat-1399495.html

I'm not sure, when did the organization that creates and scores the SAT become part of the US government?

 

[Lithium381]

But NY STATE does it just fine with a one time fee less than 1/2 that. If you want to own a handgun, NY City is NOT the place to do it. State issued conceal/carry permits are null and void there. They don't even want Police Officers from jusidictions outside NY City to carry a gun there.

then why do so many people get shot there if nobody is carrying a gun. it's illegal to do so!

oh thats right, criminals could give a fsck about the law and the citizens are at their mercy

 

[fskimospy]

then why do so many people get shot there if nobody is carrying a gun. it's illegal to do so!

oh thats right, criminals could give a fsck about the law and the citizens are at their mercy

You know that NYC has quite low crime and murder rates as compared to other large cities, right?

 

[exdeath]

That's money better spent towards a new gun every 3 years.