NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer

[Mem]

I had another bug,my longsword was no longer equipped or anywhere to be found when fighting,anyway I reloaded an earlier save and sword was there.

Official MoB issues list is getting bigger.

 

[Mem]

I went mad and got a special longsword that cost over 300k hehe,anyway upgraded my gear and went to a new area which seems easier then the last area I visited,I shall see if it stays that way.

Problem with this game is you have options that open up to go to different areas and the mob balance/difficulty seems different.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Mem
I went mad and got a special longsword that cost over 300k hehe,anyway upgraded my gear and went to a new area which seems easier then the last area I visited,I shall see if it stays that way.

Problem with this game is you have options that open up to go to different areas and the mob balance/difficulty seems different.

Is it just me, or there a massive Monty Hall Syndrome going on with modern CRPGs?

 

[Mem]

Think I'm going have to reload again ,its not the battles this time but something else,I can't tell you without giving away a spoiler but it makes the game more demanding then NWN2 in such a way its game over if you don't pay attention.

 

[manko]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Please sign the petition to remove SecuROM from NWN2

Thanks, I'll take that as a "no." I have posted on the Bioware and Atari forums and submitted support tickets before, but I guess I fall into the acceptable percent of customers who can't reasonably play a game they purchased.

 

[Mem]

Update on my progress: The game has become easier,I think in the very early part of the game I may have went to the harder area first rather then easier areas(don't know as they say since you go in blind ),anyway the game story is better then NWN2 with a lot more dialogue as well, I like the game even with all the problems I had.



I've leveled up now a few times and maybe that plus better gear and stronger party find the area which I'm currently in a lot easier or are maybe just the area mobs easier(similar to NWN2 now).

Game balance is wierd,might be due to where you go early in the game or just some parts just hard while other parts later are easier.


I'm stuck on a quest, so once I figure that out will continue through the game.
Next time I play this game I know what areas are tougher etc so can plan my route accordinley to my level,I can 100% guarantee you there will be a few patches for this game, so next time I play will be after a few good patches,right now I'm going along with the story to see how it plays out regardless of game problems.

 

[aCynic2]

I was thinking of relenting and reinstalling NWN2 because I want to DM a game, but I started to think of all the bugs that remain in the game, and how my machine suffers from BSOD daily because of that game (probably due to SecureROM) and decided not. I'll have to pass, which is too bad because the game in general is good. I liked the story, the graphics, though I think heads in the game got uglier. Certainly the elves are less attractive and there is only like 5 heads for elven females, so it's kind of a drag.

Still the main issues are the bugs and securerom. They got my money for that one purchase, but they won't get my money in support of future work.

I have, though, reinstalled NWN. It reignited two issues:

1. A loathing for the original way they handled party NPCs. The A.I. in NWN, and also NWN2 is some of the worst I've seen. Party NPCs that run back and forth between bowers, spells started after the opponent falls, etc. I still have to ask, WTF were they thinking when they took away the micro managed NPCs of BG fame? I lost more fight because of stupid A.I. than ever because of my own sleeping in BGII.

2. The dumbest, most illogical story I've seen in a computer game yet. Fenthick hangs for being stupid...well, Nasher should hang as well since he didn't bother to track progress enough to question the Desther's practice, neither did any other priest, etc. Nasher is an aloof ruler. In a world of magic, to include mind control type spells, a faithful servant is branded a traitor by virtue that she sided with the enemy. The writers even validate my argument when they expose that the leader of the creator race (or what ever they were called) was invading Aribeth's dreams to alter her will.

If we did such a thing with every NPC that succumbed to a charm spell, our PCs would walk alone their entire life.

When I played NWN2, I avoided any dialog line that amounted to subservience to Nasher and Neverwinter. Why would I want that retard leading me?

I'm reminded of the scene where you pass under the castle main floor, through the tomb of what's his name, and you pop back out. Nasher is standing there in his throne room saying "This Shadow Reaver may seem like a difficult foe..." No sh*t Sherlock, it only took out all your guards.

Nasher is one retarded azzed ruler.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

2. The dumbest, most illogical story I've seen in a computer game yet. Fenthick hangs for being stupid...well, Nasher should hang as well since he didn't bother to track progress enough to question the Desther's practice, neither did any other priest, etc. Nasher is an aloof ruler. In a world of magic, to include mind control type spells, a faithful servant is branded a traitor by virtue that she sided with the enemy. The writers even validate my argument when they expose that the leader of the creator race (or what ever they were called) was invading Aribeth's dreams to alter her will.

I haven't played the NWN1 campaign in a long time, but Fenthick didn't hang himself. He was hung by Nasher because they needed a scapegoat, someone to take the blame. The citizens of Neverwinter were crying for blood and if Nasher had done nothing, the town would have rioted.

The old ones played on Aribeth's love of Fenthick and anger over his unjust execution and fueled her desire for vengeance. Even a paladin isn't immune to negative emotions.

I agree wholeheartedly though that they should never had gone to henchmen control schemes. Early in the days of 3D graphics it may have been easier because having 6 fully detailed independently controlled characters would have brought any system to its knees, but hardware has advanced considerably and there is no excuse for henchmen control any more. NWN2 is moving away from the henchmen control scheme though, each patch since 1.05 has refined its Full Party Control methods.

Ironically, I encountered only minimal problems with the base NWN2 AI. It wasn't until I installed a companion AI mod that I was ready to chuck the disk into the street. I don't want a party member to sneeze unless I order it. If I tell the cleric to stand in the back with the ranged weapon that I equipped for them, they damn well better do it. The dwarven fighter with all his weapon feats in war hammers shouldn't switch to the crossbow he looted from an orc earlier because the target is 5 feet away. They did crap like this all the time with companion AI mods. Never had these problem with the base AI.

Incidentally, there are some people who won't be happy with a CRPGs AI until they can interface their brain directly with the PC to control the party members.

My first time playing NWN1 was on a laptop with an AXP1700 and a 32MB Mobility Radeon, with 512MB of system RAM, and no internet access for patches. I played through the game on that machine with no crashes at all, despite being on the release version. In fact, it was this experience that later formed the foundation of my personal belief that the majority of bugs are simply the result of individuals not properly maintaining/setting up their PC. That is not saying that games don't have bugs, it just says that many of the so called 'bugs' are the result of the user.

Incidentally, there are some people who won't be happy with a CRPGs AI until they can interface their brain directly with the PC to control the party members.

 

[Schadenfroh]

minor NWN1 spoilers

Nasher should hang as well since he didn't bother to track progress enough to question the Desther's practice

Agreed, people get blessed by the priest... few weeks later they catch the plague.... hmmmmm

He was hung by Nasher because they needed a scapegoat, someone to take the blame.

Yes, and he fled with the fake priests that spread the plague in Neverwinter. It was obvious that he was not pursuing them because he is not a fighter type and you found him just hanging around the enemies base of operations unguarded and free to move about, not to mention that he was very close to the leader of the false helmites. I can see why they executed him. He was either stupid or faking stupid in an attempt to save his ass when the hero found him.

the leader of the creator race (or what ever they were called) was invading Aribeth's dreams to alter her will.

They played on her feelings / dreams, but she still was not directly mind controlled and made a conscious decision to betray Neverwinter. Thus I can see why she was executed.




One thing that I do not understand..... They state that the plague does not spread from person to person early on (but by way of the false blessings) and yet they were later able to spread the plague to the natives by giving them blankets? Maybe it was another plague?

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

the leader of the creator race (or what ever they were called) was invading Aribeth's dreams to alter her will.

They played on her feelings / dreams, but she still was not directly mind controlled and made a conscious decision to betray Neverwinter. Thus I can see why she was executed.

Didn't the player have the option to prevent Aribeth's death/execution though dialogue and action? I recall there was a show down between them, where the player wins and has the option the spare her life.

 

[EvilComputer92]

NWN2 is 20 bucks on amazon. Will I get above 30fps on settings maxed on 7800gt at 1280x1024?

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
NWN2 is 20 bucks on amazon. Will I get above 30fps on settings maxed on 7800gt at 1280x1024?

Easily, cept for some of the more pitched battles.

I know the 1.03 patch included many performance increasing optimizations, and the 1.07Beta (now 1.10) also includes some optimizations but I haven't played the game extensively with 1.10.

Most of the benchmarks I've seen under NWN2 are total BS. The one that took the cake benchmarked a 2900XT under NWN2 shortly after the release of the 2900 series. The numbers were pathetically low. On my 2900XT, and the X1900XT I had previously, I never saw numbers that low even in the most pitched of battles.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

the leader of the creator race (or what ever they were called) was invading Aribeth's dreams to alter her will.

They played on her feelings / dreams, but she still was not directly mind controlled and made a conscious decision to betray Neverwinter. Thus I can see why she was executed.

Didn't the player have the option to prevent Aribeth's death/execution though dialogue and action? I recall there was a show down between them, where the player wins and has the option the spare her life.

Yeah but then Nasher has the final call. You don't know what happens in NWN1 but apparently you do find out in one of the expansions.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

the leader of the creator race (or what ever they were called) was invading Aribeth's dreams to alter her will.

They played on her feelings / dreams, but she still was not directly mind controlled and made a conscious decision to betray Neverwinter. Thus I can see why she was executed.

Then, one final argument...

With all these divine, or near divine, evils (Meph for starters) attempting to conquer Toril, where the fck are the gods? Why does divine evil have such a substantial presence whereas the gods are so absent?

I have trouble faulting the character of Aribeth in light of circumstances. She had no one to turn to. How can one stand up when evil is so prevelent, the good die unjustly and the gods are non-existant?

No beam of light, no dove with an olive branch, not even a "don't do that" coming from a statue head.

Hell, even in BGII/ToB, you meet Cyric. I didn't see Mileiki making herself known to my ranger.

BGII raised the bar to a level they can't meet w/o forcing some rather fallacious storyline upon players. That is, in the end, as a mortal you must defeat some divine evil.

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
NWN2 is 20 bucks on amazon. Will I get above 30fps on settings maxed on 7800gt at 1280x1024?

NWN2 is very buggy and the AI is very retarded. Just so you're aware.

I've seen spell caster NPCs run into the middle of the melee then start casting spells (losing them when they get hit), I've seen my weapons end up in the hands of NPCs, I've had my inventory empty spontaneously, the stutter bug which was minor in NWN is much worse in NWN2, etc.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: aCynic2
Then, one final argument...

With all these divine, or near divine, evils (Meph for starters) attempting to conquer Toril, where the fck are the gods? Why does divine evil have such a substantial presence whereas the gods are so absent?

I have trouble faulting the character of Aribeth in light of circumstances. She had no one to turn to. How can one stand up when evil is so prevelent, the good die unjustly and the gods are non-existant?

No beam of light, no dove with an olive branch, not even a "don't do that" coming from a statue head.

They pretty much just feed healing / regenerative powers to their clerics. Probably one of the reasons those damn beholder cults are becoming so popular.

 

[Bateluer]

Goodly gods work in mysterious ways. Goodly gods help those who help themselves.

Edit - Cyric also behaves differently than any other god because he was once mortal. The current Mystra, goddess of magic, and Kelemvor, god of the dead, were also once mortal, but both prefer to keep their church unified. Cyric wanted power, attempting to strip everything about the previous lords of murder and destruction from his church. He also once held the portfolio of for god of the dead and god of destruction. He lost the dead portfolio to Kelemvor when the dead themselves rebelled against his and he lost the portfolio of destruction to Bane's rebirth. I believe he just has the portfolio of murder left . . .?

 

[Mem]

I just finished the game ,MoB seemed about same length as Bioshock maybe slightly shorter ,I did not rush the game,can't really since you have puzzles etc.. so they do slow you down.

I only had one crash through the entire game on my Vista x64 Home Premium near the beginning when it was loading to a new area,unfortuantely for me my middle mouse button in game stopped working shortly after this for camera rotation, so I went to options and configured it to use left mouse button and hold,I also submitted the problem in their issues thread,dialogue I only found one bug towards the end(can't go into that without spoilers but its not a story breaker).

There are some puzzles in the game which you'll like or hate,took me a couple of hours to figure them out .
Overall good expansion ,nice interesting story with plenty of dialogue,AI needs improving,camera angles/controls I felt could also be improved since I was never quite happy with them throughout the game,did not feel natural like it does in other games.

I also felt too much special effects with magic spells,no fun when 90% of your screen is bright white due to various lighting,magic spell attacks etc and you can't see your party .You probably saw my post about game balance ,this game is going to be either hard or easier depending how your party is setup(level wise too) and what area you go to first(NWN2 main game seems to break you in more gentley,unlike MoB which can give you a challenge) some fights are tough,only tips I can really give you is max out your party , (I had a cleric,spirit shaman, red wizard and my paladin) early in the game I did not max out my party and ventured into the harder area by accident ,there are more tips I can give you but unfortunately they are to do with the story.

I enjoyed the game more then I did Bioshock and story is better then NWN2 so think that says it all.I'm looking forward to replaying the game once a few patches are officially released.FYI my 7800GT card at 1680x1050 with shadows off did get some pauses with heavy battles but nothing serious.

There are known issues with this game when it comes to bugs,ie installing game with wrong version of main NWN2 can cause serious issues,there are more bugs/problems just check their official MoB issues thread.Is the game more polished then main NWN2?..I think this depends on the individual and his hardware,personally I had no mouse issues(middle mouse button ,camera rotation) with main game unlike MoB,balance I felt in NWN2 main game was better(to be fair more patches have been released for main game).
MoB will be a fine game once a few more patches are out to fix the various problems people have had and also to polish the game,yes its playable as it stands but can be improved which will obviously happen with time and patches.


Btw my Jade Empire Special Edition arrived today so good timing .

 

[waggy]

I love the BG, IWD, NWN series. just wish Atari did not make it. it really makes me sad.

but damn you Mem! you ar erealy makeing me want to go buy the expansion!

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: waggy
I love the BG, IWD, NWN series. just wish Atari did not make it. it really makes me sad.

but damn you Mem! you ar erealy makeing me want to go buy the expansion!

Hehe you don't have long to wait,I'm installing Jade Empire as I type this .

 

[aCynic2]

Originally posted by: Mem
There are known issues with this game when it comes to bugs,ie installing game with wrong version of main NWN2 can cause serious issues,there are more bugs/problems just check their official MoB issues thread.Is the game more polished then main NWN2?..I think this depends on the individual and his hardware,personally I had no mouse issues(middle mouse button ,camera rotation) with main game unlike MoB,balance I felt in NWN2 main game was better(to be fair more patches have been released for main game).
MoB will be a fine game once a few more patches are out to fix the various problems people have had and also to polish the game,yes its playable as it stands but can be improved which will obviously happen with time and patches.

Now, what was it they said about MotB? It seeks to redress some storyline holes and fix some bugs, is that correct?

Also, do they add any extra critters?

One of the things I wish they had done for NWN was to make it a simple process to add new sound sets. Is this something they've addressed? I mean, Ash has some good lines in Army of Darkness. I'd like to add them in.

"Come get some!"

 

[jandrews]

I just cant get into these games, I miss the old infinity engine quite badly and I know 3d is the way to go and I will never get those games back.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: aCynic2

Originally posted by: Mem
There are known issues with this game when it comes to bugs,ie installing game with wrong version of main NWN2 can cause serious issues,there are more bugs/problems just check their official MoB issues thread.Is the game more polished then main NWN2?..I think this depends on the individual and his hardware,personally I had no mouse issues(middle mouse button ,camera rotation) with main game unlike MoB,balance I felt in NWN2 main game was better(to be fair more patches have been released for main game).
MoB will be a fine game once a few more patches are out to fix the various problems people have had and also to polish the game,yes its playable as it stands but can be improved which will obviously happen with time and patches.

Now, what was it they said about MotB? It seeks to redress some storyline holes and fix some bugs, is that correct?

Also, do they add any extra critters?

One of the things I wish they had done for NWN was to make it a simple process to add new sound sets. Is this something they've addressed? I mean, Ash has some good lines in Army of Darkness. I'd like to add them in.

"Come get some!"

Probably best to ask that in their official forums ,you can bet there will be MoB mods but they take time.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: jandrews
I just cant get into these games, I miss the old infinity engine quite badly and I know 3d is the way to go and I will never get those games back.

Make your own. You could use the more user friendly NWN(2) tools, or you could dig up the Infinity engine tools. There were a lot of mods and alterations to the Infinity engine, I believe Bioware did release the source code for it?

 

[s44]

There's a BG1 total conversion mod (for NWN2) in progress.

Anyone who complains about AI is playing the game wrong. The latest patch adds a 'turn off AI' GUI button. As in BG2, you should use it in every nontrivial battle.