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Nvidia's Future GTX 580 Graphics Card Gets Pictured (Rumours)

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Well yes nvidia was late for the dx11 market and at the same time fermi was hot. Now nvidia has it right and trust me this round i don't nvidia will roll over and allow amd to piss on them. There is a saying when a titan is sleeping never wake it up because when it does you will regret you ever woke it up.

Tessellation i am for it and i am impressed with it. If the feature is there use it. what i understood from past articles that amd knows the feature is there but shrugged it off like gamers don't need it.
 
this is a personal attack if nothing else. Its followed up by this:





you`d think people with the forum time of the two above, would get to a point where they could differentiate between nicks and opinions...

anyway, waste of time to try and educate people i guess

Soooo, you don't think that information was a very useful bit of info for all of us including yourself?
 
Keysplayr I actually felt like that was a personal attack too... but wasnt gonna say anything.

If your point is Im amd biased then yes... Im sure you as a nvidia focus group member, you arnt the slightly bit biased.
 
I'm sorry? What did you say? Truform mean anything to you?
ATI has had the hardware to run tesselation for a long while now. Why do you think that is?
What was the reason ATI implemented a tesselator on pre DX11 hardware and not be able to use them until DX11?

Truform was supported by 19 games.
How many support hardware PhysX?
 
Im saying the same thing Sickamore, amd are not good enough at getting their stuff into games. If they where maybe we would have had tessellation in games many years ago instead of just now.

It's not just about 'getting their stuff into games'.
Some technology is just a lot harder to get into games than others.
For example, when TruForm was introduced, it was the Doom 3 era, and shadow volumes were the next big thing. Especially with Doom 3's approach, where the volumes were generated on the CPU, it was very hard to combine shadows and TruForm, since the shadows wouldn't match the TruForm-tessellated geometry.
So that one could pretty much be ascribed to "unfortunate timing".

When shadowvolumes were replaced with shadowmaps later, this solved that problem... but you still had the problem that only ATi supported TruForm, and generally TruForm doesn't look all that well when you just apply it to regular game geometry.
You'd really need to design your game for TruForm up front, if you want to get good results.
We see that even today... games like Lost Planet 2 and Metro 2033 have DX11 tessellation added 'after the fact', and you see the same ugly 'blown up' geometry that TruForm had. It looks slightly better than back in the TruForm days because we now have much more detailed geometry to begin with, as the hardware is much faster than it was then, but still it doesn't look good if you ask me.

However, since tessellation is now a standard DX11 feature (as in: supported by all vendors and hardware, now and in future generations), and it is more advanced and more powerful than ATi's earlier attempts, it is now more feasible for game developers to invest in tessellation. You get wider support and better results.

It's nice that ATi tried to pioneer tessellation, but it's all about having the right technology at the right time. The same can be said for AMD's onboard memory controller for example. It was the right technology perhaps, but AMD may have been a bit too early. It didn't help them to compete with Intel's Conroe/Kentsfield. And once Intel started integrating the memory controller, they got it right.
Likewise, nVidia seems to have gotten tessellation right on their first DX11 hardware.
 
Tesselation has been in ATI cards for years. Yes. It's no wonder that the tech never went anywhere until NV offered it as well..

So are you saying MS had nothing to do with tessellation being part of DX11?

What about the games that were DX11 and had tessellation before nV offered it? Don't those exist?

Your bias is becoming ridiculous.
 
Truform was supported by 19 games.
How many support hardware PhysX?


From nvidias page:
PhysX in (these pc game titles): 13 games.

Batman-arkham asylum
Crazy machines II
Cryostasis
Dark void
Darkest days
Metal knight zero (online)
Mirrors egde
Nurien
PT boats- knights of the sea
sacred 2
star tales
Unreal tournament 3
U-wars
 
Well yes nvidia was late for the dx11 market and at the same time fermi was hot. Now nvidia has it right and trust me this round i don't nvidia will roll over and allow amd to piss on them. There is a saying when a titan is sleeping never wake it up because when it does you will regret you ever woke it up.

To be fair, Fermi wasn't THAT bad. People were just pissed it was so late and the disappointment just bowled nvidia over. Any flaws with Fermi got blown out of proportion and suddenly, it wasn't even a real competitor to Cypress.

It's a shame, but hopefully it taught nvidia a few things 😉
 
So are you saying MS had nothing to do with tessellation being part of DX11?

Tessellation was already a part of Direct3D 8 and 9.
The question is more: why was it removed from Direct3D 10?
I think it has to do something with the fact that no vendor, including ATi/AMD, were very interested in the technology (ATi had at one point even disabled TruForm support in the driver).
 
Tessellation was already a part of Direct3D 8 and 9.
The question is more: why was it removed from Direct3D 10?
I think it has to do something with the fact that no vendor, including ATi/AMD, were very interested in the technology (ATi had at one point even disabled TruForm support in the driver).

So then why did AMD have it in R600?
 
If you could fix it, that would be awesome, but that's if you have the time.

I think I have patched it to avoid the vendor check, and it seems I was right about Cuda as well. I just patched out the call to the initalization routine, and it still works, so I don't think it actually does anything with Cuda.
You'd still need to have the Cuda runtime on your system though, it would take some more work to remove all references to it.
I'd have to test it on an actual machine with a Radeon (my box with the 5770 has Windows 7 RC on it, where DX11 doesn't work properly), but so far it looks like it is going to work.
 
Truform was supported by 19 games.
How many support hardware PhysX?

Stick to your own subject. PhysX isn't part of DX. Now, why did ATI have a tesselator unit on pre-DX11 hardware, when tesselation would not be used until DX11 arrived? Or wasn't it?
 
Keysplayr I actually felt like that was a personal attack too... but wasnt gonna say anything.

If your point is Im amd biased then yes... Im sure you as a nvidia focus group member, you arnt the slightly bit biased.

Biased is one thing. But entering every single GTX580 thread to derail is another.
 
sick says: amd doesnt innovate with new tech, why I like nvidia more.

keys says: here here

I say: sure they do, exsample with tessellation, they just cant get people to use it.

-->

turns into:

keys saying: your derailing thread.


really?
 
So are you saying MS had nothing to do with tessellation being part of DX11?

What about the games that were DX11 and had tessellation before nV offered it? Don't those exist?

Your bias is becoming ridiculous.

With ATI having tesselation capabilities for so long, why didn't they push it? Tesselation could have been a part of the DX10 spec had ATI worked with MS to push the technology they were capable of running. I mean, couldn't they have? Or was this an impossibility and only DX11 could have possibly used tesselation? Any programmers here can comment?

Skurge, in case you haven't noticed, this forum has been rampant with AMD propaganda, PR and whatever else you can think of. It's overrun. So I don't know why my bias offends you this much. I like Nvidia products better and have for most of my gaming life. This holds truer today than it did years ago. If you have a problem with my preference than I suggest you report me for it.
 
sick says: amd doesnt innovate with new tech, why I like nvidia more.

keys says: here here

I say: sure they do, exsample with tessellation, they just cant get people to use it.

-->

turns into:

keys saying: your derailing thread.


really?

Perhaps Sick should have said: AMD doesn't innovate anywhere near the rate Nvidia does. That's why I like Nvidia more.

Perhaps you, Arkadrel, can list some of the innovations AMD has had over the last 3 years? Besides Eyefinity.
 
What are some innovations nvidia has had? Both companies don't really innovate.

I disagree. All three innovate a lot. IMO AMD has innovated a lot more (not so much recently though) and so has ATI, but that's only because they were under Nvidia and Intel's thumb for so long. Now that both graphics companies are neck-and-neck we'll probably see a lot more posturing and straight performance increases rather than innovation and risk taking. OTOH, AMD is more likely to innovate on the cpu side because, lol, you know, haha.
 
What are some innovations nvidia has had? Both companies don't really innovate.

Renaming scheme would be one thing, actually the only thing that appealed to AMD so much that they went ahead and applied it to their new cards.

Jokes aside, it seems to me that ATI/AMD have some good ideas(tess,eyefinity) that only Nvidia can exploit 😀 . Prolly because of their better resources sooner than anything else
 
What I was trying to say was that you really won't see much true innovation in consumer graphics. What happens is the companies optimize and repurpose older innovations like tessellation, 3D, multi-monitor support, physics, etc. There is very little groundbreaking stuff going on that nvidia or amd directly created.
 
3DFX was actually the one they have stolen some stuff from. Its not that Nvidia has innovated more than AMD, its that their innovations have been more succesful. IE:

Nvidia:
CUDA
Physx

AMD :
APP
Eyefinity
Tesselation

CUDA blows APP out of the water, most people have never even heard of APP, eyefinity counts, not for me, but counts, and tesselation kinda counts, even though Nvidia is getting better performance with it. Only because its tesselator is more brute force, and current tess is very innefficient, therefore it wins. Neither one "innovates" more per se. Now stop flaming.
 
Biased is one thing. But entering every single GTX580 thread to derail is another.
Pot meet kettle...
3DFX was actually the one they have stolen some stuff from. Its not that Nvidia has innovated more than AMD, its that their innovations have been more succesful. IE:

Nvidia:
CUDA
Physx

AMD :
APP
Eyefinity
Tesselation

CUDA blows APP out of the water, most people have never even heard of APP, eyefinity counts, not for me, but counts, and tesselation kinda counts, even though Nvidia is getting better performance with it. Only because its tesselator is more brute force, and current tess is very innefficient, therefore it wins. Neither one "innovates" more per se. Now stop flaming.
Exactly. Neither company can rest on it's laurels or it'd be out of business.
 
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