nVidia wins this round - Charlie D.

[blackened23]

He could have written nothing.
Also, I doubt that it hurts Nvidia if a couple of 7970 cards are sold. At 550 bucks only desperate and impatient people buy a 380mm2 chip which is clearly to expensive. The 7950 has not been released yet.

If Kepler really is as great as rumors imply, Nvidia will be just fine.

AMD isn't stupid. Actually, they may be stupid in some areas but pricing isn't one. These companies hire economists who spend weeks upon weeks studying what the ideal price points are, they don't just throw darts at a dartboard and pick the answer based on that. There are many factors into determining what will drive sales to a desirable marketing outcome, and considering that 7970 has been sold out everywhere within hours despite high supply, i'd say they are doing just that. But if you learned more from studying 2 semesters of college economics than I did, feel free to point out how 7970 is a market failure (considering its sold out everywhere). I'm not an expert but basic economic principles point to AMD being justified in pricing the 7970 the way they did. If you really want to get the crux of it, it outperforms the GTX 580 , while the GTX 580 3gb has a higher MSRP. There you go. I guess nvidia is a market failure as well by your definition.

I also don't think NV will be hurt by this. They weren't hurt by 5870, although they lost quite a bit of market share especially in the OEM channel, and it caused BFG to go out of business. I know you're eager to bash AMD (I kid) but yeah, NV will be fine as long as they deliver a good product in the next 6 months.

 

[SirPauly]

GCN architecture is not going to be judged by current 40nm product but by its competition, which will be Kepler. Usually when there is a substantial and significant node change and arch, well, there are usually redefined price/performance. One can make the case this is the first time in GPU history where a MSRP percentage gain was actually higher than its performance percentage gain.

If some desire to defend its pricing based on 40nm price-performance and a heavily premium priced -- year old GTX 580 -- well, there ya go. Go Premiums! Can certainly understand AMD's motives -- they desire to make more money but what I don't understand is how vocal some are defending AMD's pricing considering for years they had a commitment to the gamer for the sweet spot and to redefine price/performance.

 

[blastingcap]

First, you can't really expect NVIDIA to say "yeah, AMD nailed that 28nm launch, hell better than we did a new architecture on a new process." Not saying that they're wrong about Kepler either, but NVIDIA did a lot of chest thumping pre-Fermi and look how that turned out. I'm just amazed that there is absolutely no info on a Kepler part yet, I think that shows just how far out we are. AMD's 7970's and soon 7950's are flying off the shelves and NVIDIA is just taking it?

How much noise did NVDA make prior to dropping the G80?

 

[notty22]

More web reaction to CD Kepler announcement.
Longtime Nvidia Critics Says Kepler is "Clear Winner" Against AMD's Tahiti Architecture

Longtime Nvidia Critics Says Kepler is "Clear Winner" Against AMD's Tahiti Architecture

AMD might be in for a dogfight when Nvidia's Kepler architecture leaves the porch. Early reports suggest Nvidia has a real winner on its hands and that Kepler is such a strong performer, even Nvidia's mid-range cards will give AMD's high-end GPUs a run for their money. The information available is vague and scattered, but it all points to Nvidia stealing back the performance crown.
Charlie Demerjian, who has a long history of being critical of all things Nvidia, sang some high praise for Kepler over at SemiAccurate. According to Demerjian, Nvidia is going to "win this round on just about every metric" with its Kepler architecture, which will trump AMD's Tahiti "handily." Those remarks come after spending hands-on time with a pair of Kepler-based graphics cards and collecting "hard information," though he isn't allowed to share specific benchmarks just yet.
Demerjian's reveal jibes with information information leaked by Chinese website Inpai.com.cn, which is claiming Nvidia's mid-range cards will have the moxie to challenge AMD's higher end GPUs. According to Inpai, Kepler's GK104 architecture will sport a 256-bit interface, 2GB of onboard memory, and have a 225W TDP.

 

[railven]

GNC architecture is not going to be judged by current 40nm product but by its competition, which will be Kepler. Usually when there is a substantial and significant node change and arch, well, there are usually redefined price/performance. One can make the case this is the first time in GPU history where a MSRP percentage gain was actually higher than its performance percentage gain.

If some desire to defend its pricing based on 40nm price-performance and a heavily premium priced -- year old GTX 580 -- well, there ya go. Go Premiums! Can certainly understand AMD's motives -- they desire to make more money but what I don't understand is how vocal some are defending AMD's pricing considering for years they had a commitment to the gamer for the sweet spot and to redefine price/performance.

Didn't you get the memo? We're all shills. And someone has proof all the way up to AMD HQ that we're all shills.

Viva Le Quebec! Viva Le Jay Sherman!
Viva Le Quebec! Viva Le Jay Sherman!

But, on a side note, I guess because I'm gaining 80-90% performance gains, I don't see an issue with HD 7970. My options are 60% gain for ~$500 or 80-90% gains for ~$550. I'm hoping Kepler does bring game, because I'd take a price cut

 

[AtenRa]

Im sure if GK104 will be a GF114 replacement, the 225W TDP is referring to the 2x 6-pin on the PCB (75+75+75).

 

[Concillian]

I'm just amazed that there is absolutely no info on a Kepler part yet, I think that shows just how far out we are. AMD's 7970's and soon 7950's are flying off the shelves and NVIDIA is just taking it?

It doesn't necessarily mean we're WAY far out, it may just mean that nVidia is not being as leaky as AMD was with the 7970. 7970 was one of the leakiest launches I've seen. Usually you just get 2 weeks from AIB partner's leaked board shots and such.

 

[boxleitnerb]

GCN architecture is not going to be judged by current 40nm product but by its competition, which will be Kepler. Usually when there is a substantial and significant node change and arch, well, there are usually redefined price/performance. One can make the case this is the first time in GPU history where a MSRP percentage gain was actually higher than its performance percentage gain.

If some desire to defend its pricing based on 40nm price-performance and a heavily premium priced -- year old GTX 580 -- well, there ya go. Go Premiums! Can certainly understand AMD's motives -- they desire to make more money but what I don't understand is how vocal some are defending AMD's pricing considering for years they had a commitment to the gamer for the sweet spot and to redefine price/performance.

This.
I understand why they charge much right now. But you will understand what I mean when the price drops 100-150 bucks once Kepler arrives. From a new generation I expect significantly better perf/$. Tahiti does not provide that.

 

[Pantalaimon]

what I don't understand is how vocal some are defending AMD's pricing considering for years they had a commitment to the gamer for the sweet spot and to redefine price/performance.

It doesn't matter what their strategy have been in the past. A company's strategy, of which pricing is part of, is not set in stone.

 

[railven]

This.
I understand why they charge much right now. But you will understand what I mean when the price drops 100-150 bucks once Kepler arrives. From a new generation I expect significantly better perf/$. Tahiti does not provide that.

It's called getting it good while the good is worth getting. If you have some kind of affection for Early Adopters, kudo. I, however, don't.

I didn't shed a tear when someone bought a nice 46" HDTV for $5,000 and then a month later 52" HDTVs launched and that 46" dropped to $4,000. Nope. I don't get why some of you care so much. Once competition launches, the prices will shift (I'm hoping down.)

I'd have more sympathy for you price bandwagon guys if the HD 7970 was SLOWER and cost MORE, but until then, you guys are just ruining the fun that people can afford without worrying about next month's rent. You just look like petty whiners. "Ah, I can't afford it, wah wah wah." Yes, and then the rebuttal "I can afford it, I just don't want to buy it." Kudos, then STFU about price.

 

[AtenRa]

This.
I understand why they charge much right now. But you will understand what I mean when the price drops 100-150 bucks once Kepler arrives. From a new generation I expect significantly better perf/$. Tahiti does not provide that.

What if Kepler (GK100) will be launched at $599-649 ?? It is a nice opportunity for NV not to take it.

 

[SirPauly]

Didn't you get the memo? We're all shills. And someone has proof all the way up to AMD HQ that we're all shills.

Viva Le Quebec! Viva Le Jay Sherman!
Viva Le Quebec! Viva Le Jay Sherman!

But, on a side note, I guess because I'm gaining 80-90% performance gains, I don't see an issue with HD 7970. My options are 60% gain for ~$500 or 80-90% gains for ~$550. I'm hoping Kepler does bring game, because I'd take a price cut

There is nothing wrong with being a fan of a company. If you're happy with your choice, that is all that matters. Have fun!

 

[blackened23]

It doesn't matter what their strategy have been in the past. A company's strategy, of which pricing is part of, is not set in stone.

Yup. Companies are guided by an invisible hand that drives them to maximum profit and desirable market outcomes.

Considering that 5870 was 399$ when they easily could have charged more, created a ridiculous supply/demand situation and tons of etailers price gouging. While I would love for high end GPU's to be cheaper, I think the precedent lies with nvidia for raising GPU prices to this level - 8800ultra being a good example.

Lastly , Kepler is nothing but rumors at this point, and certainly one has to question whether Charlie is being serious or sarcastic. But lets say Kepler does outperform 7970, do you think they will release it at 350$? I think you're in for a rude awakening if so. That would just be insane from an economists point of view, there is absolutely no way that will happen. They will charge accordingly to recover their years of R+D. Economics 101, charge what the public is willing to pay. There you have it.

 

[Guovssohas]

I was just going to order a 7970 before reading this thread, but now when i know Nvidia will crush and stomp AMD into space bits then i have to choose Nvidia

 

[boxleitnerb]

What if Kepler (GK100) will be launched at $599-649 ?? It is a nice opportunity for NV not to take it.

I'm talking about GK104.

 

[SirPauly]

This.
I understand why they charge much right now. But you will understand what I mean when the price drops 100-150 bucks once Kepler arrives. From a new generation I expect significantly better perf/$. Tahiti does not provide that.

I agree with you! However, I do understand what AMD is doing and why leave revenue potential since one does have an execution advantage. Also understand why early adopters desire to have the fastest GPU on the planet and still a win-win for company and consumer.

 

[railven]

There is nothing wrong with being a fan of a company. If you're happy with your choice, that is all that matters. Have fun!

Thanks Glad I got your blessing! My AMD overlords will be happy too haha.

 

[SirPauly]

It doesn't matter what their strategy have been in the past. A company's strategy, of which pricing is part of, is not set in stone.

I don't disagree.

 

[SirPauly]

Thanks Glad I got your blessing! My AMD overlords will be happy too haha.

I think the AMD overlords may be enjoying their premiums!

 

[blackened23]

I agree with you! However, I do understand what AMD is doing and why leave revenue potential since one does have an execution advantage. Also understand why early adopters desire to have the fastest GPU on the planet and still a win-win for company and consumer.

Again, they spend weeks studying this stuff. AMD is not stupid. They determine what amount of profit is earned if boards are priced at 400$. They study what amount of profit is earned at 450$. They study the profit level at 500$.
Please understand that pricing decisions are not taken lightly, anyone that has been inside these companies would be well aware of this. The 550$ pricing model gives them the most profit and most of the public is willing to pay the premium for it because it does outperform the GTX 580.

If kepler is released 6 months from now with better performance, obviously the current pricing model will either change, or NV will charge that much more.

You guys act like pricing decisions are taken lightly. The spend MONTHS studying what gives them the most sales and profit. I don't like premium prices anymore than you do -- but its easy to understand why they do it. Simple economics

 

[AtenRa]

I'm talking about GK104.

I dont believe GK104 will bring HD7970's price down, perhaps it will bring HD7950's price down.

I could be wrong

 

[AnandThenMan]

I was just going to order a 7970 before reading this thread, but now when i know Nvidia will crush and stomp AMD into space bits then i have to choose Nvidia

lol

And this my friends is what you call a successful FUD campaign. Nvidia has no product, no benches, no credible leaks, no nothing. But hey, Nvidia is going to crush AMD, because Charlie said so. You know, that same Charlie that was reviled and ridiculed over and over again. But now his word is suddenly the gospel! How can one not laugh at this?

 

[railven]

I think the AMD overlords may be enjoying their premiums!

I don't disagree.

 

[blackened23]

lol

And this my friends is what you call a successful FUD campaign. Nvidia has no product, no benches, no credible leaks, no nothing. But hey, Nvidia is going to crush AMD, because Charlie said so. You know, that same Charlie that was reviled and ridiculed over and over again. But now his word is suddenly the gospel! How can one not laugh at this?

Sounds exactly like the internet war that was waged in the 9 months prior to GTX 480. Yes, same thing happened. Who knows though.

 

[SirPauly]

Again, they spend weeks studying this stuff. AMD is not stupid. They determine what amount of profit is earned if boards are priced at 400$. They study what amount of profit is earned at 450$. They study the profit level at 500$.
Please understand that pricing decisions are not taken lightly, anyone that has been inside these companies would be well aware of this. The 550$ pricing model gives them the most profit and most of the public is willing to pay the premium for it because it does outperform the GTX 580.

If kepler is released 6 months from now with better performance, obviously the current pricing model will either change, or NV will charge that much more.

You guys act like pricing decisions are taken lightly. The spend MONTHS studying what gives them the most sales and profit. I don't like premium prices anymore than you do -- but its easy to understand why they do it. Simple economics

Imho.

It's called being a predator and aggressor. I have no problem with it because, to me, its about supply/demand/market/competition considerations. I also felt that AMD left too much revenue potential on the table with the sweet spot strategy. AMD may of been too committed to the sweet spot strategy -- especially when they had another execution advantage with the HD 5870 and 5850 -- they couldn't meet demand with the aggressive sweet point price-points with no competition.

But, it was disruptive and bold though and respect them for it.