nVidia wins this round - Charlie D.

[Nintendesert]

I think Charlie got exactly what he wanted, a ton of talking and controversy and lots of page hits.

 

[GaiaHunter]

A quick tour around newegg shows all the 7970's out of stock.

If anything the 7970 might be currently underpriced.

 

[blackened23]

And still, they can get it wrong. All companies are guilty of this. All companies make mistakes. And yes, this does indeed mean that they are not perfect, contrary to belief.

True. I'm not saying I like the high prices. Hell, in my mind highend gpu's should be at 400$ at most.

 

[AnandThenMan]

And so we might really know what Charlie is mulling over, maybe we should appoint somebody to ask him. Maybe Anandthenman could do the deed. After all, he is the one who correctly defined the name of Charlies web site when nobody else had a clue. I'd say that makes him the closest to the situation. I nominate. Seconds?

Uh, what? Not certain if serious.

 

[Ajay]

Didn't take long for this thread to become more about friction than fact!

 

[blastingcap]

Didn't take long for this thread to become more about friction than fact!

Sounds kinky.

 

[SlowSpyder]

A quick tour around newegg shows all the 7970's out of stock.

If anything the 7970 might be currently underpriced.

Yup. I don't know how anyone can argue that the 7970 is over priced when every one made is being bought.

 

[MrK6]

Yup. I don't know how anyone can argue that the 7970 is over priced when every one made is being bought.

It's over-priced because it doesn't fit in their budget, duh.

 

[MaxPayne63]

Yup. I don't know how anyone can argue that the 7970 is over priced when every one made is being bought.

It's just the usual launch scarcity. AMD could eke out a few extra dollars off the (obviously few) units available at launch but I'd think that they would run the risk of souring customers to this generation of products.

 

[railven]

It's over-priced because it doesn't fit in their budget, duh.

Explains "green" team's mentality. Haha.

 

[SirPauly]

Go Premiums!

I just don't understand considering sweet spot pricing was the norm and that hammer was banging for many, many years. It's if that strategy never existed!

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

The premium price of the 7970 doesn't take one nickel out of my pocket so I really couldn't care less. If someone can afford it and they feel good with their purchase than good for them.

I know I'm not the typical high end enthusiast. I've purchased a couple $500 cards in the past. Last one was a gtx 580. Don't get me wrong it was a fantastic card but it kinda made me sick to think that $500 was tied up into my computer for playing video games. I know that will be the last high end card purchase for me. I'll let the high rollers play that game. As for me I'm waiting for a solid 50%+ upgrade from my overclocked gtx 480 for $300. It will be a while I'm sure but I can wait.

 

[railven]

I know I'm not the typical high end enthusiast. I've purchased a couple $500 cards in the past. Last one was a gtx 580. Don't get me wrong it was a fantastic card but it kinda made me sick to think that $500 was tied up into my computer for playing video games. I know that will be the last high end card purchase for me. I'll let the high rollers play that game. As for me I'm waiting for a solid 50%+ upgrade from my overclocked gtx 480 for $300. It will be a while I'm sure but I can wait.

See, this is far more understandable versus the "it's priced too high for only 10-15% increase" rhetoric. People assume we're all buying top tier high ends every year. I use to do that, I can't anymore (other financial obligations - and I made a deal with the devil.)

So my upgrade window is open, I pretty much got $800 from bitcoins + the money I had for my upgrade budget I agreed to (deal with the devil part.) So I look at the parts available: GTX 580 for ~$500 which is about 30-40% performance increase and possible 60% if I OC to the moon, or an HD 7970 for ~$550 that is 50-60% performance increase or 90-110% if I OC to the moon.

In my eyes - I don't see this price premium as outside of the normal. If it were $450, I'd be ecstatic, but it isn't and I'm not going to sit and post "it should be cheaper" in a forum of enthusiast haha.

 

[SirPauly]

Imho,

As long as one is happy with their choice -- that is all that truly matters.

I like to debate both sides of the coin at times:

The HD 7970 is the fastest GPU on the Planet -- no doubt about it. AMD has an execution advantage and pricing them what the market is at this time. Early adopters or higher-end enthusiasts , to me, don't mind paying premiums for these kinds of Sku's. It's understandable why they're priced here considering AMD's execution and engineering prowess places them in this position.

It does offer more value than a GTX-580 3 gig sku considering AMD's default performance, and potentially their over-clocking headroom and scaling.

However, this is just one side of the coin to me.

 

[SirPauly]

In my eyes - I don't see this price premium as outside of the normal. If it were $450, I'd be ecstatic, but it isn't and I'm not going to sit and post "it should be cheaper" in a forum of enthusiast haha.

So MSRP's percentage gains over the over-all performance percentage gains -- as normal?

AMD didn't change the smaller die to a larger die, and this die is smaller than their last one.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Go Premiums!

I just don't understand considering sweet spot pricing was the norm and that hammer was banging for many, many years. It's if that strategy never existed!

Any strategy has to take in account the competition.

AMD decided that instead of going after performance crown, they would settle for a card that would give close performance at smaller die size, which would mean it could be sold at a cheaper price point and could arrive at the market first, including mid-range cards. Any of this ring any bells?

The fact that AMD new gen launched before NVIDIA new gen, allows AMD to sell their smaller, but higher performance chips, for higher prices than NVIDIA top chips.

This happened with the 5870 and with the 7970.

The 4870/4850 launched pretty much simultaneously with the GTX280/GTX260, lowering AMD prices. The 6970/6950 launched a month after GTX580/570, lowering these card prices. You can bet that if the GTX580/GTX570 hadn't launched before 6970/6950, AMD prices would be higher than GTX480/470 prices at that time.

You are just misunderstanding or choose not to understand what the sweet spot strategy is - the sweet spot strategy is getting almost as much performance than the big die strategy using a small chip that might/can be sold at a lower price than the bigger chip while being more profitable. Might/can, not "has to".

A blunder to AMD would be NVIDIA getting higher performance than AMD at a smaller die - see what happens in the CPU arena, where Intel has higher performance products at smaller die sizes.

A big victory for AMD is being able to sell their small chips for more than NVIDIA can sell their bigger chips. (this is what is happening atm and happened with the 5870 at launch).

You talk as if AMD took a solemn promise to sell their highest performing chips at $200-$300 and not a penny more.

 

[SirPauly]

No it wasn't. It was a commitment to the performance sectors -- where many consumers are; to redefine performance/value; to garner market share gains while still bringing in nice revenue/profit/margins.

 

[SirPauly]

You talk as if AMD took a solemn promise to sell their highest performing chips at $200-$300 and not a penny more.

It was a commitment to this price-range:

HD-3870
HD-4870
HD-5850
HD-6950

 

[GaiaHunter]

No it wasn't. It was a commitment to the performance sectors -- where many consumers are; to redefine performance/value; to garner market share gains while still bringing in nice revenue/profit/margins.

And didn't they do that?

And who stops them from dropping the prices of the 7970 once NVIDIA new cards arrive?

Strategy is always based on competition/enemy/rivals, etc.

Price was only part of it.

 

[railven]

So MSRP's percentage gains over the over-all performance percentage gains -- as normal?

AMD didn't change the smaller die to a larger die, and this die is smaller than their last one.

Why does any of that matter to me, the end user? I'm not measuring dies, I'm using a video card to enjoy my games.

If it were cheaper, I'd be happier, if it were costlier and slower I wouldn't buy it.

Buying now, what would you recommend in the $500-600 price range (since that is my budget)? Or will you tell me stories about die sizes and how it affects my games?

 

[SirPauly]

And didn't they do that?

And who stops them from dropping the prices of the 7970 once NVIDIA new cards arrive?

Strategy is always based on competition/enemy/rivals, etc.

Price was only part of it.

They softened their commitment and understandable why they did.

 

[railven]

And didn't they do that?

And who stops them from dropping the prices of the 7970 once NVIDIA new cards arrive?

Strategy is always based on competition/enemy/rivals, etc.

Price was only part of it.

There it is again, this proven strategy that competition creates price wars. Glad other people realize this.

And these people who act like they care if the early adopters get shafted - just stop. They know the name of the game. We all do.

 

[SirPauly]

Why does any of that matter to me, the end user? I'm not measuring dies, I'm using a video card to enjoy my games.

If it were cheaper, I'd be happier, if it were costlier and slower I wouldn't buy it.

Buying now, what would you recommend in the $500-600 price range (since that is my budget)? Or will you tell me stories about die sizes and how it affects my games?

As long as you're happy that is all that matters! Just pointed out it isn't "normal" pricing to me.

 

[SirPauly]

There it is again, this proven strategy that competition creates price wars. Glad other people realize this.

And these people who act like they care if the early adopters get shafted - just stop. They know the name of the game. We all do.

What price wars? nVidia's pricing didn't really budge!

 

[railven]

As long as you're happy that is all that matters! Just pointed out it isn't "normal" pricing to me.

Of course it isn't to you. You support team green this time around - you're heavily invested. Why would it be normal too you?

Gaia gave a good recount, and historically that his how it has happened - the first to launch their top tier, sells for more than the previous performance crown. History repeats itself, yet again. But that isn't normal, at least to you - who's openly said they have no intentions to even buy AMD. Funny.