Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

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Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
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You can only compare price for performance if products are equal. Look at this: RTX2080TI gives you 4K@60FPS. The competition only delivers 4K@30FPS. You pay 2.5x more for 2x the performance. Price for performance is worse but the cheaper product doesnt deliver the result you want.

Let me help you with that. The competition in this case is the 1080Ti. So if the 2080Ti gives you 4k@60fps then the 1080Ti would give you 4k@~45fps. 2x the price for 35% more performance.

People can spend money any way they want to. I'm not going to ridicule someone for dropping $1,200-$1,500 on the fastest GPU out there. However, if I had to guess, most enthusiasts care about price, even the ones who buy high-end GPUs. For the large majority of buyers, GPUs are NOT price inelastic so the 2000 series launch has caused lively discussions and grouching about the new price structure.
 

TahoeDust

Senior member
Nov 29, 2011
557
404
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Do you realise you pretty much increasing prices for next gen cards for everyone?Nvidia just testing waters how much they can charge guys like you.And you dont even know performance or power consuption.And if you buy it they will increase price for next generation because why not if people buying it?
Nvidia tried it with 8800ULTRA for like 830USD.But back then reviews were independent and critisize it and people i guess have more brain so nobody buys it and next gen they launch at 650USD GTX280.

So yeah i dont like that you increasing prices for next gen cards by buying whatever nvidia throw at you at whatever price.Because you effecting me by increasing next gen cards price.
I really don't care.
 
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Muhammed

Senior member
Jul 8, 2009
453
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For example. For ME a $2000 threadripper cpu is a TOTAL WASTE of money, but for others it might not be.
Yup.

What's happening here is some people are pissed that NVIDIA will sell it's overpriced GPUs no matter what. Because NVIDIA did sell all the Titans they made. And because NVIDIA has no competition, and because NVIDIA has the best performance, image quality, features and support out there. They WILL sell everything they make. Just like Apple. And this is pissing some people off.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
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A big problem with this debate is that one side has logical/factual points and metrics and the other side is plugging their ears and claiming people are being haters/jealous. A debate is not occurring.

The high end of a market has significant diminishing returns. This isn't always the case unless the high end of the market demonstrates they don't care about price and just want to be fleeced.

Just because you like spending gobs of money on the most 'high end' hardware, doesn't make someone an enthusiast. It means that you enjoy spending the most money on the most high end hardware. There are tons of gamers who log far more hours, spend far more money on games, and the factual data reflects that they play on cards equal to or less than a 1060. Meanwhile, there are console players all across the world who seemingly love their experience, buy far more games, and are running on far less spec'd equipment.

It’s odd to me that people are complaining about prices here but will absolutely spend more on a high end CPU that is only a few percentage points more capable that a lower tier or older cpu.

My 8 core CPU cost 1/2 as much as the 4 core CPU I bought.
That's actually how things work in tech. You pay less for more with time as a product matures.
As for why I went from 4 core to 8 core? I had an actual computational need for it.
I didn't buy it because it made me feel warm and fuzzy inside to have the latest and greatest.
I buy based on my needs and value. If the value isn't there and there isn't a business case associated with it, I use great discretion.

Although I have been gaming for years, my focus is on the experience not on how much $$$ i can throw at hardware. There is nothing related to a gaming enthusiast that translates to high end hardware. From Comicon, to burning man, to gaming, to general computer usage, to cell phones, to the internet, to social media (used to be restricted to college students and campus's) it's like things go off the rails once it goes mainstream. The spirit and nature of things die and is replaced by how much money one can spend and how extravagant they can be. People cared about FPS when things ran at 10 fps.. and then 20 and then 30 and then 40 and then 60... Now at the clown end of the curve, we have this weird sense of oneupmanship. Interestingly, people have a valid argument against such people because they serve as a catalyst for destroying affordability for a wide range of enthusiast. This has occurred in just about everything known to man across time. Concert tickets go from $40 to $300... A goofy phone goes from $200 to $1000. And no it doesn't cost that much to make nor is the R&D that expensive which is why margins and quarterly profits are at an all time high.

Gap between rich and poor balloons and everyone pretends like they don't know how...
Hint : The rich are buying stock in companies where consumers buy at at cost. The non-rich are the consumers spending their incorrectly evaluated wealth on excessive products.

Affordability... $250k+ salary. Does that mean I go and blow it on products that are a rip off and call such a habit being an enthusiast? A ferrari owner whose never been to a track? Never been above 60 mph... Or the teenager who knows every aspect of a car that cost 1/10th tunes it himself, tracks it on weekends? 4k 4000fps $10k rig ranking at the bottom or the CS:Go gamer that constantly ranks top 10 on the server playing on a poverty tier dual core w/a 780ti...

Blowing money and fattening a corporations pockets doesn't make you an enthusiast.
More often than not the true enthusiast have and spend far less money, log far more hours, and own far more games (most often not graphic intensive "blockbuster" titles).

Fortnite is renowned around the world. You can play it on max settings on poverty tier $140 APUs.
$$$ tends to ruin everything and propel it into idiocy.

Nvidia released 2080/2080ti and the prices are unmysteriously right at the levels 1080s and 1080tis were selling at during the height of the crypto idiocy. This has absolutely nothing to do w/ R&D cost and other nonsense. Absolutely nothing to do w/ enthusiast game and everything to do w/ a fleecing.

I could piss the money I make on every tech gadget known to man when it comes out... On the very products I make a living making. But that would be foolish. I buy a company's stock when a pronounced group of people maintain they will w/o question buy their products because they're 'enthusiast'. Hilariously, the true enthusiast flee things that become infected with $$$ and lose their soul... As soon as they do and find something solid....in comes the rush of 'take my money' crowds. The thing in question loses not gains value, dies out, and the cycle repeats.

$800/$1200 video cards are absurd.. Period.
As are $1000 phones.

Why the prices then? because the market (take my money) continues to suggest they're ok with it.
Record profits and margins...
Ferrari enthusiasts.

There are people I know who are millionares from phone app revenue who have dumb phones.
Ask them why and their remark will be : I'm busy making money. I rarely use my phone. A phone is for texting and calling people and my dumb phone does that just fine.
Meanwhile, someone flipping burgers has a $1000 Iphone 8XD.

Again, i guess someone has to keep people in tech employed.
I can't argue with that if people want to brag about such a habit.
 
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ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
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898
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Yup.

What's happening here is some people are pissed that NVIDIA will sell it's overpriced GPUs no matter what. Because NVIDIA did sell all the Titans they made. And because NVIDIA has no competition, and because NVIDIA has the best performance, image quality, features and support out there. They WILL sell everything they make. Just like Apple. And this is pissing some people off.

Shareholders have no reason to be pissed especially when the consumer continues to communicate they'd buy their hardware even if they doubled the price. I like to get a sense and gauge of people's remarks though. Nothing better than to drill down to the meat of it and have them truly state how they feel.

> You're just jealous because Nvidia sells so much hardware
> You're just jealous because you don't have $1,200 to spend on a card
> Don't be jealous because you can't afford a $1000 iphone and pay installments
> I'd buy their stuff no matter what.. I don't care what you think

> REEEE, the rich screw the world over... it's not fair.

This is when I fire up the research/buy button.
Worked for APPL. Worked for NVDA.
Works for just about any well ran company

The MTV cribs projector fad was also quite hilarious to observe.
Just about the worst picture I have ever seen comes from an in home projector setup that typically takes no care for any of the other environmental factors to make for a crisp experience.

4K sitting 2-4 feet from a screen is absolutely comical as are the upper reaches of FPS
But, this is what the mainstream calls 'enthusiast'.
It's called consumerism.
 
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ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
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4K sitting 2-4 feet from a screen is absolutely comical as are the upper reaches of FPS
But, this is what the mainstream calls 'enthusiast'.
It's called consumerism.

I can't speak for 4k since I game at 1440p @ 144hz, but I can absolutely say that moving to 1440p from 1080p was a huge improvement and the jump to higher than 60hz gaming was equally as impressive. A 1080TI/2080 are great at this level for now, and once 7nm RTX cards are available and raytracing actually works at higher resolutions and fps, with HDR, etc I expect it to be glorious.

My mind is telling me to sit this one out and use the 1080 I currently have but my impulsive side sure does want more.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
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I can't speak for 4k since I game at 1440p @ 144hz, but I can absolutely say that moving to 1440p from 1080p was a huge improvement and the jump to higher than 60hz gaming was equally as impressive. A 1080TI/2080 are great at this level for now, and once 7nm RTX cards are available and raytracing actually works at higher resolutions and fps, with HDR, etc I expect it to be glorious.

My mind is telling me to sit this one out and use the 1080 I currently have but my impulsive side sure does want more.
I have a 1440p monitor and I agree. I also use a 750ti and have zero problems gaming.
I have 1080s and 1070s but use them for compute and have zero need for them in gaming.

When 7nm and PCIE 4.0 come and much more sane prices and power consumption, RTX will probably be on version 2.0 and have the showings of a stable platform. Just like Nvlink matured across multiple versions. Cuda cores and tensor cores.

I've been the fool in earlier portions of my life who had to have the latest and greatest. I grew out of that and buy based on mature value at this point. When there's a business case and money involved, if the returns exceed the cost, I invest in higher end equipment.

1080p was a standard for some time.
1440p came and it became affordable at around $400 or so for an excellent grade monitor.
Now its down to about $200.
I would never pay $800/$1k.
That's the cutoff price for a 50-60" TV.

Essentially, there are sane limits that last the test of time.
$600 is about the limit I'll pay for a video card.
I had interest Quadros but the price was stupid and the further I dug into the big sell features, the more I found them to be gimmicks. I bought 1080 instead. In fact, the industry started doing this (1080/1080ti) too because they too understand value :
DeepLearning11-GTX-1080-Ti-Same-CPU-Opposite-Ends.jpg


Nvidia got pissed and did this :
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/27/nvidia-limits-data-center-uses-for-geforce-titan-gpus.html

You're not always getting a "better" product when you pay more.
I rarely look at fps counters .. In cases where it's visible, I've seen dips down to 40fps and I honestly don't even perceive it.

I could drop a 1080 into my gaming rig, but I have no need for it.
The grand majority of people are on 1060s or less for a reason... Because you actually don't need much HP for most games.
Gaming enthusiasts play tons of hours across a range of games. They're more focused on getting better at the game than visual quality they wont perceive in high action content. Grand majority plays on low end to mid range hardware and the most popular and fun games perform great on them.

Cash grabs are cash grabs. When you go out of your way to widdle down features or flat out disable them in software/firmware you're out for cash not to try to further the world through technology. Competition is great for breaking such companies at their knee caps. Nvidia held off how long on putting FP16 in consumer cards? Because they thought they could keep milking enterprise for it. AMD releases 2:1 FP16 performance in a consumer card and then Nvidia finally does so too. Nvidia prices glorified Geforce consumer cards at double the price and calls them Quadros.... As a consumer, i don't forget crap like this.
 
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Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
7,572
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I typically spend about $250 on new CPUs and new GPUs, but was willing to jump up to $450 on a GPU this gen and upgrade to a nice 1440p 100hz+ IPS monitor, but looks like I don't really have any good options this year. Kind of bummed out about the RTX 2070 prices. Guess I'll wait for something mid range next year.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,992
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Funny. I see it this way...

Enthusiast with disposable income: "Man! I'm excited about these new cards. I think I am going to go ahead and order one.
Other guy: "Are you dumb? Can't you see that the price increase to performance increase scale is not linear!?!?!?"
Enthusiast with disposable income: "Meh, that's ok. I like owning and playing with the new things and have the money to do it."
Other other guy: "Only a sucker would buy these cards! Can't you see that the price increase to performance increase scale is not linear!?!?!?"


We all get it. We're paying 100% more money for ~35% more performance. That is kind of how it works at the top of every industry. Do you think the guys that traded in their 2017 Ferrari 458 in for a 2018 488 saw a linear price/performance scale?

So you fancy yourself to be much like the type trading in one supercar for another? Methinks there is much wishful thinking going on over here, when one compares such lifestyles. ;)
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Yup.

What's happening here is some people are pissed that NVIDIA will sell it's overpriced GPUs no matter what. Because NVIDIA did sell all the Titans they made. And because NVIDIA has no competition, and because NVIDIA has the best performance, image quality, features and support out there. They WILL sell everything they make. Just like Apple. And this is pissing some people off.

Nah, not at all.
 

ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
1,151
530
136
I ques you will not care to pay 3K for the RTX3080Ti next year and 4K for the RTX4080Ti after.

Whoa, stop being so absurdly sensational. AMD should have some competition on the market by the time the RTX4080Ti hits and I seriously doubt it'll cost a penny over 3k.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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Whoa, stop being so absurdly sensational. AMD should have some competition on the market by the time the RTX4080Ti hits and I seriously doubt it'll cost a penny over 3k.

Well if we stay at 3K for the RTX3080Ti and RTX4080Ti then we are just fine I ques :rolleyes:
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,867
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I ques you will not care to pay 3K for the RTX3080Ti next year and 4K for the RTX4080Ti after.
I just hope nobody will buy turing and Nvidia will find their ceiling otherwise we are all doomed.Next gen x70 will cost 700-800, x80 cost 1000usd and x80TI 1500-2000usd and x60 mainstream for 500USD.
GTX570-350USD
GTX670-399USD
GTX970-330USD
GTX1070-450USD
RTX2070-600USD
RTX3070-750USD?

GTX970 was best selling card.Best selling x70 for sure.GTX1070 was not even close to similar numbers like GTX970 because 1070 cost way more.RTX2070 will be worst x70 card of all times for sure with price at 600+ USD.
If this continue nobody will be able buy decent card anymore in like 4-6years from now.Only few people like that i dont care dude will.
 
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Ottonomous

Senior member
May 15, 2014
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Stupid question - is there any possibility of a meaningful raytracing implementation in the upcoming consoles (2020 or pro variants)? Or does AMDs Navi inherently not lend itself to it and the subsequent arch would be the first to get it?
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
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I just hope nobody will buy turing and Nvidia will find their ceiling otherwise we are all doomed.Next gen x70 will cost 700-800, x80 cost 1000usd and x80TI 1500-2000usd and x60 mainstream for 500USD.
GTX570-350USD
GTX670-399USD
GTX970-330USD
GTX1070-450USD
RTX2070-600USD
RTX3070-750USD?

GTX970 was best selling card.Best selling x70 for sure.GTX1070 was not even close to similar numbers like GTX970 because 1070 cost way more.RTX2070 will be worst x70 card of all times for sure with price at 600+ USD.
If this continue nobody will be able buy decent card anymore in like 4-6years from now.Only few people like that i dont care dude will.
I'm at the point I was at with Intel but now with Nvidia. I'm looking towards their competition.
7nm/PCIE 4.0/HBM memory/xGMI and a sane price from AMD will cause me to jump ship and its what I'm looking for.

AMD already has FP16 2:1 performance and a robust GPU core design to exploit a range of new compute centric tasks.
The major issue is their driver/dev stack.
I wont be won back after that for another 5 or so years.

I'll sell off some of my pascal cards. Upgrade my gaming computer to a 1070 and all of my compute will be with AMD.
Nvidia can do whatever they want going forward. There's certain prices I will never entertain.
Geforce20 is dead to me. If people buy it up and substantiate these prices, so be it.
It will be Intel redux all over again. You'll get a group of people praising paying 2x more for the same performance and I'll secretly laugh to myself like most Ryzen users do.
 

ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
749
898
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Stupid question - is there any possibility of a meaningful raytracing implementation in the upcoming consoles (2020 or pro variants)? Or does AMDs Navi inherently not lend itself to it and the subsequent arch would be the first to get it?


https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=https://www.golem.de/news/computergrafik-amd-erwartet-raytracing-bei-ultra-settings-im-grafikmenue-1803-133464.html

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/606/

It's all a matter of implementing the right set of hacks to make it presentable.
It's called Hybrid Ray tracing because its still not full on ray tracing.

IMO, a good amount of current architectures can be properly configured to produce similar effects.
What catches my eye about Nvidia is the compute potential.
As far as a final visual product, AMD already has years of work in this area themselves.

Nvidia's not blazing new territory here. So yes, there will be meaningful end result which is the visual product.. That's all that a gamer cares for IMO. How it gets computed is still just a packaging of hacks.

There's parity on a lot of things Nvidia released with what AMD already has. Since its just a series of hacks, the important thing to a gamer is moreso : how the end product looks.
 
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mohit9206

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2013
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Let me help you with that. The competition in this case is the 1080Ti. So if the 2080Ti gives you 4k@60fps then the 1080Ti would give you 4k@~45fps. 2x the price for 35% more performance.

People can spend money any way they want to. I'm not going to ridicule someone for dropping $1,200-$1,500 on the fastest GPU out there. However, if I had to guess, most enthusiasts care about price, even the ones who buy high-end GPUs. For the large majority of buyers, GPUs are NOT price inelastic so the 2000 series launch has caused lively discussions and grouching about the new price structure.
A smart person would know how to easily achieve 4k @60fps even on a 1080Ti. All one would do is lower a couple of visual settings and done! No noticeable visual difference in quality other than an extra blade of grass the 2080Ti owner would see. All for $600 less!
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
126
I just hope nobody will buy turing and Nvidia will find their ceiling otherwise we are all doomed.Next gen x70 will cost 700-800, x80 cost 1000usd and x80TI 1500-2000usd and x60 mainstream for 500USD.
GTX570-350USD
GTX670-399USD
GTX970-330USD
GTX1070-450USD
RTX2070-600USD
RTX3070-750USD?

GTX970 was best selling card.Best selling x70 for sure.GTX1070 was not even close to similar numbers like GTX970 because 1070 cost way more.RTX2070 will be worst x70 card of all times for sure with price at 600+ USD.
If this continue nobody will be able buy decent card anymore in like 4-6years from now.Only few people like that i dont care dude will.
GTX670 $400 in 2012 = $418 in 2016, so the 1070 was priced okay.

970 was a great value, but it was seriously flawed with the 3.5gb memory and the 1.75mb of cache issues.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,362
136
GTX670 $400 in 2012 = $418 in 2016, so the 1070 was priced okay.

970 was a great value, but it was seriously flawed with the 3.5gb memory and the 1.75mb of cache issues.

Flawed or not, GTX 970 with more RAM was faster AND cheaper than GTX 670 at the same node :rolleyes:
But we had Hawaii at the time and they couldn't play the RTX game back then. ;)
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
126
Flawed or not, GTX 970 with more RAM was faster AND cheaper than GTX 670 at the same node :rolleyes:
But we had Hawaii at the time and they couldn't play the RTX game back then. ;)
There's nothing you can do if people are willing to pay the prices for the 20 series cards.

If they are, NV will roll on.

If they are not, NV will lower the prices.

Plus, 1080ti prices should be good if you want a "GTX 2080". :)
 

rusina

Member
Mar 20, 2012
31
0
66
Sorry for the offtopic, but Unwinder (MSI Afterburner developer) mentioned that RTX 2080 would hit GPU clock of 2050-2100MHz with Nvidia Scanner. I don't know if it's great result or not? Over 20% overclock with tools that even beginners can use?
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,865
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Sorry for the offtopic, but Unwinder (MSI Afterburner developer) mentioned that RTX 2080 would hit GPU clock of 2050-2100MHz with Nvidia Scanner. I don't know if it's great result or not? Over 20% overclock with tools that even beginners can use?
The clocks themselves aren't much of an improvement over what Pascal could do.
 
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