Nvidia: Not Enough Money in a PS4 GPU for us to bother

[sontin]

Everyone is calling that a falling apart house. Don't get why you need to bash AMD to make your point. I don't think you'll find anyone not seeing a desperate move from AMD to keep its sinking ship somehow with its nose out the water.

It shows that the ARM market is not a low margin market.

$764 millions revenue -> $157 millions operating income loss

They blew those $764 millions and an extra $157 millions and they've been doing it for years.

Nvidia has been losing tons of money in the first years of Tegra but somehow a console maker can't do the same. I really don't know what's happening with Tegra but this is going to be a really hard year for NV since it's sticking its nose in the ass of companies that dwarf it by orders of magnitude.

It's called investment.

As NTMBK said it's an overpopulated and low margin market. They're investing money to get positioned like AMD is doing with consoles.

nVidia is in a great position: They have Tegra 4i with an integrated modem, have their own GPU tech and invested huge in Perf/Watt. They designing their own ARM processor and they are now onto a 1-year design cycle.

And they think that the Kepler GPU in Logan is "miles ahead of the competition".

 

[Rezist]

Is there anywhere that has bobcat vs A15 benches?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Nope, bobcat competes against Intel's red headed step child, Atom.

 

[Rezist]

I see I would imagine Sony/MS would have went ARM over x86 if the performance was there.

 

[badb0y]

Yeah, its not like he has a fetisch abot me and in the same time posting nothing but garbage:




















(Notive the irony there in bold?)



He has issuuses...and seem to have some mental attachment too me...so take you irony...and use it on your self ^^

Are you fucking kidding me? The only one posting garbage here is you.

Your posting in a thread where the majority of your kin are trying to convince everyone else that nVidia not being in the next gen consoles is somehow not a big deal.

http://www.vgchartz.com/

MS, Sony, and Nintendo will all be powered by AMD this generation. If we look at the past, that's about 246~ million chips over the course of 7 years if you think nVidia does not want a part of that your a dumbass. Plain and simple, no argument. I hope JHH sends you a personal e-mail to tell you that because he obviously cares about the console market or he wouldn't have hired Feldstein.
Proof: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/24/3180484/amd-bob-feldstein-xbox-720-ps4-wii-u-hired-nvidia .

PC gaming and console gaming are two different branches of the same tree. There are some experiences you can only get on the PC while there are some experiences you can only get on consoles.

Oh no wait I forgot all you give a shit about is PhysX, Arma 3, and Tegra.

GTFO troll.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

()

 

[Lonbjerg]

Are you fucking kidding me? The only one posting garbage here is you.

Your posting in a thread where the majority of your kin are trying to convince everyone else that nVidia not being in the next gen consoles is somehow not a big deal.

http://www.vgchartz.com/

MS, Sony, and Nintendo will all be powered by AMD this generation. If we look at the past, that's about 246~ million chips over the course of 7 years if you think nVidia does not want a part of that your a dumbass. Plain and simple, no argument. I hope JHH sends you a personal e-mail to tell you that because he obviously cares about the console market or he wouldn't have hired Feldstein.
Proof: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/24/3180484/amd-bob-feldstein-xbox-720-ps4-wii-u-hired-nvidia .

PC gaming and console gaming are two different branches of the same tree. There are some experiences you can only get on the PC while there are some experiences you can only get on consoles.

Oh no wait I forgot all you give a shit about is PhysX, Arma 3, and Tegra.

GTFO troll.

The problem seems to be you and you pattern of posting irrelevant FUD to me.
Get a hobby...or a girlfriend...it's not healthy being so obsessed with someone you don't know.

Next time you do the same (post irrelevant FUD to me) I will post the exact same post..and add the new FUD...so if you are mad you look like a mental person...stop posting FUD ^^

 

[badb0y]

The problem seems to be you and you pattern of posting irrelevant FUD to me.
Get a hobby...or a girlfriend...it's not healthy being so obsessed with someone you don't know.

Next time you do the same (post irrelevant FUD to me) I will post the exact same post..and add the new FUD...so if you are mad you look like a mental person...stop posting FUD ^^

n/m not feeding the troll anymore.

 

[Tweak155]

Typical avoiding valid points.

 

[sontin]

Is there anywhere that has bobcat vs A15 benches?

Not really. We need to wait a few more months.
But with the data from nVidia for Tegra 4 and Samsungs A15 SoC it's clear that A15 is on the same level as Jaguar.

In Sunspider Tegra 4 needs 500ms to complete the test. Bobcat with 1,6GHz needs 780ms:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/atom-cedartrtail_5.html

Geekbench is 4500 for Tegra 4 over 1492 for Bobcat. But that is not really fair because Tegra 4 has 4 Cores instead of 2.

 

[Lonbjerg]

n/m not feeding the troll anymore.

Added to the list:

Why u so mad?

I don't get what you are arguing lol.

Assumptions?

You would think someone trying to insult someone would use a spellchecker so they don't look like a dumbASS.

This is how I imagine Lonbjerg's reaction:

Image removed due to baiting another member.

Super Moderator BFG10K.

Always playing the victim card.

Just ask Lonbjerg, he'll tell you all about microstuttering in Crossfire/SLi.

I don't quite understand what that link was supposed to convey, whether it was supposed to be guilt by association or to prove he is a fanboy.

If it's guilt by association then I was going to google your name but I found your signature, you know where you accept that your part of a focus group for nVidia.

If it's supposed to show how he is a fanboy then you and Lonbjerg are both arguably equally as fanatic as him in defending your company.

The most ironic thing is that people bag on you for both being a fanboy and through guilt by association(i.e.your signature) but it's "offensive" to you but suddenly when it's someone else it's perfectly fine.

Nah I never commented on those two because I know nothing about them, I can't comment on something I don't know anything about.

Probably does(it's his job) but why would you imply he is e-mailing reviewers? Do you have any proof of this?

(Notive the irony there in bold?)

Your a contradiction to your sig.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Not really. We need to wait a few more months.
But with the data from nVidia for Tegra 4 and Samsungs A15 SoC it's clear that A15 is on the same level as Jaguar.

In Sunspider Tegra 4 needs 500ms to complete the test. Bobcat with 1,6GHz needs 780ms:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/atom-cedartrtail_5.html

Geekbench is 4500 for Tegra 4 over 1492 for Bobcat. But that is not really fair because Tegra 4 has 4 Cores instead of 2.

So, a quadcore is faster barely faster than a old as dirt dual core so a15 = jaguar?

Nice fallacy.

How fast would the octacore in the ps4 and xbox next run that benchmark?

Nice fallacies. Let me direct you to a bunch of unrelated links and other nonsense.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I can't help but cringe at the amount of people defending consoles in general, just because AMD is on the box.

As if the last seven years of consolization was something to praise, and the next seven is welcomed.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I can't help but cringe at the amount of people defending consoles in general, just because AMD is on the box.

As if the last seven years of consolization was something to praise, and the next seven is welcomed.

On should bookmark this thread...and then return in 3 years time...I bet you there will be a lot of foot-in-mouth posts in this thread by then.

It's the same shite EVERY time a new console is launched.

FUD about "UBER performance"...which in reality turns out to be hardware limited in 1-2 years....and Thus stagnating the game development.

No wonder several devs has said they will be focusing on the PC in the future..because consoles were a restraint performance wise

 

[Rezist]

I can't help but cringe at the amount of people defending consoles in general, just because AMD is on the box.

As if the last seven years of consolization was something to praise, and the next seven is welcomed.

The first couple of years of a new console are not so bad. The last 5 get to be brutal however. I was more actually hoping for an ARM based console.

 

[Lonbjerg]

The first couple of years of a new console are not so bad. The last 5 get to be brutal however. I was more actually hoping for an ARM based console.

When the PS3 launched I had better performance on my PC.
(higher resolution, better FPS, better I.Q....better controls)
Shortly after, the G80 launched...and consoles were behind by a major factor.

The SAME will happen to the new generation of crapboxes.

 

[thilanliyan]

nm

 

[badb0y]

I can't help but cringe at the amount of people defending consoles in general, just because AMD is on the box.

As if the last seven years of consolization was something to praise, and the next seven is welcomed.

I used to blindly hate consoles too but you have to remember PC gaming is not held back by consoles, it's held back by low-midrange PCs.

Take the consoles out of the picture for a second. What would change? We have Blizzard who only developed on PCs (until this year) and they never pushed the boundary of PC gaming, why is that? According to use PC elitists Blizzard games should be groundbreaking with amazing visuals because they only need to develop on PCs but they are not. At best they are mediocre visually so they can run on a wide range of configurations and run on a lot of peoples computers. We PC gamers are a very small part of the market and not many developers want to exclusively cater to us and those that do exclusively cater to PC gamers aren't making any groundbreaking visual masterpieces either.

Crytek was the one company I remember that pushed the systems to the max and looked amazing but they obviously saw there was more money to be made on consoles and lower end PCs so they switched up their strategy. There's nothing wrong with that, making games is a business and they want to be available to as many people as possible.

If your comment was more about game play then I agree there are certainly some developers out there who just cater to the consoles and have PC gaming as an afterthought.

 

[thilanliyan]

Not really. We need to wait a few more months.
But with the data from nVidia for Tegra 4 and Samsungs A15 SoC it's clear that A15 is on the same level as Jaguar.

In Sunspider Tegra 4 needs 500ms to complete the test. Bobcat with 1,6GHz needs 780ms:

Sunspider performance isn't what consoles are about I think.

No wonder several devs has said they will be focusing on the PC in the future..because consoles were a restraint performance wise

They say that now...but guaranteed most devs will focus on consoles...there is way more money in it for them usually. Some devs will focus on PC (Blizzard, CDPR) but the majority will focus on consoles. I don't expect a change with this new generation of consoles.

 

[Vesku]

Since when is it a defense of consoles to mock Nvidia's claim they didn't want a piece?

http://shield.nvidia.com/

Their ARM APUs just aren't quite ready for XBox and Playstation performance tier, that's all. If MS and Sony could have stretched out their long in the tooth products for another couple of years Nvidia would have been a serious option:

http://techreport.com/news/24530/project-denver-based-soc-due-in-2015

 

[Obsoleet]

Think it another way.

If Nvidia was a gpu, their utilization would be 99%.

If nvidia was a GPU they wouldn't care and let AMD be a GPU instead.

QF for a genuine lol.

 

[BFG10K]

Nvidia is already doing to AMD what Intel did to AMD, the GTX Titan is their 3960x and there is no response from AMD nor will there likely be one either in the foreseeable future.

Right, that’s my point. Where AMD competes with Intel/nVidia (mid and low end) we still have reasonable pricing. Where AMD doesn’t compete, we have $1000 price gouging.

The problem with saying everyone would be screwed is the fact that Intel shows us that companies with dominance need to create compelling products for existing customers to upgrade into.

Intel only shows us this where AMD is still competing. They don’t show us this with the $1000 hexcore. Without AMD there’s nothing stopping Intel from making the top SB/IB be $800 and stacking everything below that, or nVidia pricing the GTX680 in the same fashion.

Also it’s better for them to sell fewer products with a higher margin than more products with razor thin margins. You still need to load a Titan and a GTX650 on the same truck if you want them to get to the store. But when they get there, you have to sell a heck of a lot more GTX650s to make the same profit.

So if they can get away with higher prices, they will. The main thing keeping this gouging in check is competition.

If Nvidia was the only real player at $200+ on 20nm with Maxwell, what reason would people have to buy the cards, if they weren't offering compelling perf/w and perf/$ increases? None, and Nvidia would be stuck with stockpiles of products they couldn't move because they couldn't offer a compelling reason for people to buy them.

Is the Titan stockpiled? How about Intel’s hex-core? What about the GTX280 when it launched for $649 and then dropped to $499? Was that stock-piled too?

Let’s take it back one step: do you admit the GTX280’s price drop was both good for consumers, and also directly caused by competition from AMD?

 

[BFG10K]

I can't help but cringe at the amount of people defending consoles in general, just because AMD is on the box.

I think some people really want AMD to make money because they understand that competition benefits all consumers, regardless of which camp you're in.

I’m sure the people that purchased the GTX280 for $499 instead of its launch price of $649 (thanks to AMD) would agree.

I consider myself to be part of this "some people" group.

 

[wlee15]

Not really. We need to wait a few more months.
But with the data from nVidia for Tegra 4 and Samsungs A15 SoC it's clear that A15 is on the same level as Jaguar.

In Sunspider Tegra 4 needs 500ms to complete the test. Bobcat with 1,6GHz needs 780ms:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/atom-cedartrtail_5.html

Geekbench is 4500 for Tegra 4 over 1492 for Bobcat. But that is not really fair because Tegra 4 has 4 Cores instead of 2.

Sunspider is extremely dependent on the browser that ran it. For example the Nexus 10 with the dual-core A15 at 1.7 Ghz gets 1384ms with Chrome 18, while a 1 Ghz AMD Z-01 gets about 820ms on IE10. Also Geekbench unfortunately isn't really a good cross-platform benchmark.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Sunspider performance isn't what consoles are about I think.


They say that now...but guaranteed most devs will focus on consoles...there is way more money in it for them usually. Some devs will focus on PC (Blizzard, CDPR) but the majority will focus on consoles. I don't expect a change with this new generation of consoles.

They said it AFTER having had focus on console.
The main reason?
The 5-6 years lifespan of consoles.