Nvidia is scared of ATI?s success

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: nRollo
Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

There has never been a single PCB, dual GPU nVidia video card made, ever. The 7950X2 was dual PCB, and it was their first ever attempt at putting two GPU's on one video card. There was never any attempt to produce a dual GPU 6800 series. I thought everyone knew that.

Note the bolded part. There was never an offical SKU from nVIDIA but rather its partners toying around with the idea of a single PCB dual GPU board.

One example. Gigabyte GV-3D1-68GT

Or this Asus's one

QFT Cookie - there were several. Dual 6600GTs, dual 6800GTs, dual 7800GTs, dual 7900GTs.

I think they just do the dual PCB because it's probably less re-tooling and re-engineering for no appreciable gain.

 

[bryanW1995]

god, I hate to say this, but,

Rollo is right in many ways with what he said. nvidia's market cap is a LOT higher than amd's. From a company value perspective, nvidia could very well swallow amd whole. AMD probably has pretty good poison pill and other types of protections in place, however, plus if either nvidia or intel tried to buy them there would be some serious anti-trust issues brought up. Nvidia has done nothing wrong with their letter to analysts; as mentioned by others in this thread, nvidia is simply trying to paint themselves in the most favorable possible light. Don't forget that many AT members have criticized amd for resorting to multi-gpu solutions to finally best the 8800gtx, too, and that is only in MOST popular titles, not practically every one as the 8800gtx/ultra were from nov 06 to jan 08. Pricing is hardly favorable for the 3870x2 when it's compared to an 8800gts 512, either. 465 shipped is the current price on newegg, while you can get an oc msi 8800gts 512 right now for 280. there's certainly a performance difference between those 2 cards, but most people would have a hard time justifying $180 more for a 3870x2.

AMD is clearly in a better place today than it was a month ago or a year ago. Many posters here are probably happy to see that; I know I am. I personally like competition in the gpu arena as I think that it benefits all of us, and I am likely to pick the underdog if the price and performance are reasonably close to the top dog. That's one of the reasons that I have a 3870 right now instead of an 8800gt. I do like the stock fan better since it exhausts the heat out of the case and is quieter than the 8800gt, too, but at the end of the day I know that I could have paid a little bit more and gotten a commensurate performance benefit. Right now nvidia is clearly still the market leader so they're getting scrutinized very closely, but let's remember all of the buildup to the 2900xt... ATI did more than their fair share of truth-stretching and even outright lying in that instance.

ok, somebody shoot me now.

EDIT: oh, and to address the "nvidia is scared of amd" statements that are pervading this thread. Nvidia has reason to be concerned with a resurgent amd right now, but "scared" might be pushing it a little. When you're on top, your main competition is yourself. If nvidia can't get the 9800gx2 out and in volume soon, they'll lose some high end business. If nvidia can't get g100 or g200 or whatever it's called out before r700, then they'll be in a little bit of pain. They might even not make as much money in 08 as they did in 07, but they had a GREAT year in 07 by almost any measure imaginable. They are still the market leader in many segments and they have a reputation that amd would kill for. People blindly buy nvidia cards right now b/c they don't know that a 3850 destroys an 8600gts. If anything, amd should be scared right now of what response nvidia will have to 3870x2. Again, I hope that amd remains competitive and I would be pleased to see 3870x2 on top for a while (preferably with a huge performance increase from great drivers support), but, frankly, I don't think that nvidia has been sitting idly by with their recent windfall profits. AMD's gpu division is probably, if anything, having some of their profits since the 3800 release siphoned off to patch up the rest of their leaky ship, while nvidia has little else to distract itself and/or waste money on other than badass new gpus that will actually let us play crysis at 1680x1050 with 4xAA. Ok, maybe that's pushing it, but you know what I mean.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: nRollo
Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

There has never been a single PCB, dual GPU nVidia video card made, ever. The 7950X2 was dual PCB, and it was their first ever attempt at putting two GPU's on one video card. There was never any attempt to produce a dual GPU 6800 series. I thought everyone knew that.

Note the bolded part. There was never an offical SKU from nVIDIA but rather its partners toying around with the idea of a single PCB dual GPU board.

One example. Gigabyte GV-3D1-68GT

Or this Asus's one

QFT Cookie - there were several. Dual 6600GTs, dual 6800GTs, dual 7800GTs, dual 7900GTs.

How could I have missed that? I've been keeping up with computer hardware for over two decades now. Maybe I've just forgotten, who knows? Well, we all make mistakes. I just wish I made fewer.

I think they just do the dual PCB because it's probably less re-tooling and re-engineering for no appreciable gain.

Obviously, it's because the performance difference wouldn't be enough to justify the cost differential. There is a difference, though.

 

[Tempered81]

ati rules nvidia drools

At least there is competition in the GPU market now. Maybe nvidia will fart out some new tech and we can surpass the "g80 lives forever!" fever.

I have a feeling the nvidia single gpu tech is on the horizion and we will see it a lot sooner than a kickass ati single gpu solution. I bet g100/g200 wins over r700, and it comes out first

3870x2 does beat all nvidia gpus today though!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tuteja1986]

that explains rollo return :! they sent in their best officer :!

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
But ATi is currently ahead in the benchmarks. (go ahead, tell me it's AMD) Crossfire also scales better then SLi... Plus, Nvidia may be doing well now, but what are they going to do when Intel and AMD lock themselves into Fusion and integrated GPUs? They might be able to sell discrete GPUs to intel customers, but that's a pretty big cut of the market they're missing. Most people don't even know what a GPU is... They are more interested in Fusion then the HD50870X8 or the GX12800GTSX2 or whatever will be out later.

BTW, is the 9800GX2 also read as a single card?

Dunno. Would you want your Dual core CPU to register as a single CPU in task manager and device manager?

What does one have to do with the other, you ask?

I am not getting the question here? If you're wondering about AMD's accomplishment with 3870X2 (Transparency to OS), AnandTech and Techreport have documented it farily well. I suspect this was something NV had not expected, and consequently delayed the launch of 9800GX2. Their drivers team might be working overtime to at least achieve the same level of driver functionality/quality.

 

[Keysplayr]

The question is, does showing a single instance of a card in device manager offer better driver stability/performance over a card showing two instances in device manager? Is this fact, or has this been a manufactured "fact"?

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: nRollo
Here's how I came to be back at AT.

I was in a conference call with NVIDIA and Anand about some upcoming products a couple weeks ago. I wasn't saying much, because I prepped questions for the wrong product. (wasn't told what this was, I assumed)

Anand was cracking jokes and doing most of the talking other than the NVIDIA presenters, and it reminded me of how much I liked the community here. (which I honestly haven't thought of much for two years- I popped in now and again to read, but generally lost touch)

After the meeting I told one of the guys at nV that Anand seemed like great guy, and that I missed posting here. And then I forgot about it.

A couple weeks later I got an email from Derek saying my thoughts had been forwarded to them, and that they would let me back on in a provisional basis.

There was no marketing plan and I seriously doubt NVIDIA wanted me back here as a response to the 3870X2.

If I'm the best they have as a response to the 3870X2, they should be scared!

Fortunately for them what they really have is a bit better than me, I think they can survive a few weeks. (Rollo or no)

So there you have it.

That is quite disturbing if your description is accurate and honest. I have nothing personal for/against nRollo but thanks to a forum member I happened to read the long thread (with lots of lifers posting) in Forum Issues section. I rarely even go there so the thread itself was quite incredible with all the fireworks and whatnot. Anyway, what you're saying is;

1. 1. You're in a conference call with NV/Anand a couple weeks ago, which reminded you of how much you liked this forum. (why you missed this forum so much is quite obvious to me now as Appopin accurately pointed out in that thread - you like the attention in the cyberspace)
   2. After the meeting you told one NV personnel you missed posting here.
   3. The NV personnel translated it on his own that you want to come back here.
   4. Then he contacted Anand, Derek, or anyone in charge.
   5. Later you got an invitation from Derek Wilson.
   6. Derek Wilson spent hours justifying the decision he made to other countless members.
   7. You then declares your voluntary quitting, not wanting to carry a baggage. (that was the last time I saw you in that thread and I haven't been back there ever since)
   8. Yet I see you posting here right now. So I wonder what happened between yesterday and today? I'm guessing there is a behind story about this, too, which is probably even more credit-damaging to moderation and management of AT. (like.. a mod begging you to come back.. Since Derek Wilson made such a huge effort to justify unbanning of your account, yet you can simply make Derek like an idiot by just saying two words "I quit!")

Very interesting, to say the least.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
The question is, does showing a single instance of a card in device manager offer better driver stability/performance over a card showing two instances in device manager? Is this fact, or has this been a manufactured "fact"?

Did you read the AT/TechReport articles? Also what is a 'manufactured fact'?

 

[QueBert]

that Gigabyte board with 2 6800 GPU's on it was crap, it required a special MB, Gigabyte only made one MB that worked with it. My Local PcClub still has one of the cards for sale, interesting idea. horribly executed.

 

[imported_LaP]

I don't see why nVidia would be scared.

Back in the days of the Radeon 9800 XT and X850 XT PE (both of them dominated the market for a good amount of time) maybe but for now nVidia is in the driver seat.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
The question is, does showing a single instance of a card in device manager offer better driver stability/performance over a card showing two instances in device manager? Is this fact, or has this been a manufactured "fact"?

Did you read the AT/TechReport articles? Also what is a 'manufactured fact'?

No, I did not read them, but will in a little bit.

No, I did not read them, but will in a little bit now that I know where to look, thanks.
Manufactured "fact" is something everybody believes to be true, (because it's in print) but isn't.

 

[Munky]

I'm not sure why this thread dissolved into a "Nv could buy AMD" debate... but there are a few reasons why Nv might be worried. For one thing, they've yet to implement a multi-gpu solution which supports multiple monitors, and if their upcoming sandwich card doesn't deliver that feature, it would be a serious issue for many potential buyers, even if they did regain the performance crown. Moreover, let's not dismiss the fact that neither side has a next gen single-gpu solution ready, so whatever lead Nvidia had up until now could amount to nothing in a few months. There's no telling who will be ahead next round, and there's definitely more pressure on Nvidia now than there was a year ago or even half a year ago.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: conlan

Originally posted by: nRollo
NVIDIA could likely buy AMD/ATi with cash. I don't think they're cowering out in Santa Clara.

Lol! Rollo, you haven't changed one bit.

AMD will never sell it self for $4Billion dollar !! noob. Unless they have the stupidest executive in the world. They would slipt the company into little bits of peaces and auction it off. FABS , BRAND and other IP are worth billions.

 

[bryanW1995]

Unless they have the stupidest executive in the world

um, tuteja, you do know that hector ruiz is still ceo, right?