Nvidia is scared of ATI?s success

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

So do they have the cash to buy AMD/ATI, or don't they? Rollo says yes, Apoppin says no. Who is correct here and back it up if you can.
Just curious.

look carefully ... Rollo does not say 'yes'

nvidia would be destroyed if they attempted a hostile takeover for there is no friendly way to "acquire" AMD

"NVIDIA could likely buy AMD/ATi with cash" doesn't mean no either...
I know AMD is too big a pill for Nvidia to swallow, I just wanted some input.

@ Chizow: I thought Nvidia was an over $10-billion company?

The point I was trying to make is the current market cap for NVIDIA is $14B, AMD is at $4B.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/co?s=NVDA

This is a very similar situation to the market caps of AMD and ATi when AMD bought ATi.

I don't think NVIDIA is looking to buy AMD/ATi, and doubt they could, for reasons not wholly financial as has been noted.

The topic of the post is "NVIDIA is scared", to that my response is "NVIDIA is enjoying many consecutive quarters of record growth, while AMD/ATi's value and market share are in free fall. I don't think Jen Hsun Huang is breaking out the golden parachute." and "Why do people always look at these standard practice business letters that always favor the sender and critique them as if they should be written like independent reviews? Does anyone doing this work for a living?"

As I said at Rage3d in the thread about this, "You can bet when Campbells launches a new minestrone, a Progresso memo goes out staing "Our minestrone has 13% more beans, and higher quality pasta!" while ignoring that Campbells has 20% more celery or something.

People need to get a grip- this isn't a war of ethics, just two companies that both (surprise) market themselves. I think their stock holders expect it- so don't worry.

 

[bob4432]

for those of you that don't know or have the sigs off, just know that nRollo is affiliated w/ nvidia - thus the "n" in his name.

remember, he gets free nvidia stuff for being a viral marketer

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...adid=2147233&forumid=1

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

The HD 3870 X2 is a single PCB card like any normal graphics card you buy. It has two GPUs on the same PCB, which is a better way of doing things than gluing two cards together.

Why is that? The only advantage I can see to it is aftermarket coolers, which is kind of a niche market anyway. (and I don't know if there are, or will be, any aftermarket coolers for 3870X2s) Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I don't know if nVidia is scared of AMD right now, but they probably will be long term. nVidia fills a small niche product with its high-end graphics cards and most of the market is on IGP, where AMD definately has the advantage with the latest generation. Also, OEMs are more likely to choose a package deal from AMD with a IGP motherboard + CPU than go with an AMD CPU + nVidia motherboard. That alone is a significant segment of the market that nVidia is going to be forced out of. That's not even mentioning Fusion.

I think NVIDIA has a larger share of AMDs platform market than AMD and ATi- I'll look into it more later if someone likes. I believe one of their managers in the motherboard division told me they make over 60% of the AMD motherboards sold recently.
Beyond that, AMD has always been a bit player in their markets. I believe their highest market share ever is 21% for CPUs, and their current ones have errata errors, or are far lower IPC than their competition. I don't see a huge OEM shift to AMD- their latest problems will keep the "No one was ever fired for buying Intel" alive in the corporate world still.
(which is unfortunate- I've supported AMD whenever I could going back to 486 days)

Originally posted by: Extelleron
If you ask me, nVidia is in trouble long term because they are the only company in industry that only produces GPUs; they are competing with AMD and Intel, two companies with significantly more resources and who also produce CPUs.

I don't think AMD has more resources than NVIDIA these days, they're losing money, borrowing it to stay afloat, and have a crushing debt load.

NVIDIA competes very well in the graphics and motherboard MCP markets, and I think their business model is working well for them.

People have been saying what you just did since AMD bought ATi a year and a half ago. Since then AMDs market cap has dropped over $10B, and NVIDIA's has almost doubled.

Something to consider when predicting "AMD will bury NVIDIA soon".

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Extelleron

The HD 3870 X2 is a single PCB card like any normal graphics card you buy. It has two GPUs on the same PCB, which is a better way of doing things than gluing two cards together.

Why is that? The only advantage I can see to it is aftermarket coolers, which is kind of a niche market anyway. (and I don't know if there are, or will be, any aftermarket coolers for 3870X2s) Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I don't know if nVidia is scared of AMD right now, but they probably will be long term. nVidia fills a small niche product with its high-end graphics cards and most of the market is on IGP, where AMD definately has the advantage with the latest generation. Also, OEMs are more likely to choose a package deal from AMD with a IGP motherboard + CPU than go with an AMD CPU + nVidia motherboard. That alone is a significant segment of the market that nVidia is going to be forced out of. That's not even mentioning Fusion.

I think NVIDIA has a larger share of AMDs platform market than AMD and ATi- I'll look into it more later if someone likes. I believe one of their managers in the motherboard division told me they make over 60% of the AMD motherboards sold recently.
Beyond that, AMD has always been a bit player in their markets. I believe their highest market share ever is 21% for CPUs, and their current ones have errata errors, or are far lower IPC than their competition. I don't see a huge OEM shift to AMD- their latest problems will keep the "No one was ever fired for buying Intel" alive in the corporate world still.
(which is unfortunate- I've supported AMD whenever I could going back to 486 days)

Originally posted by: Extelleron
If you ask me, nVidia is in trouble long term because they are the only company in industry that only produces GPUs; they are competing with AMD and Intel, two companies with significantly more resources and who also produce CPUs.

I don't think AMD has more resources than NVIDIA these days, they're losing money, borrowing it to stay afloat, and have a crushing debt load.

NVIDIA competes very well in the graphics and motherboard MCP markets, and I think their business model is working well for them.

People have been saying what you just did since AMD bought ATi a year and a half ago. Since then AMDs market cap has dropped over $10B, and NVIDIA's has almost doubled.

Something to consider when predicting "AMD will bury NVIDIA soon".

I wouldn't waste time trying to explain it man.

Obviously, there are people here who just don't understand business and think that whoever has the fastest benchmark at the moment has the advantage.

But then, seeing as the primary PC Gaming audience is teenage and male, is anyone surprised they don't "get" finances yet?

 

[Skunkwourk]

Well hopefully sales of the 3870X2 take off...

 

[djnsmith7]

I don't think Nvidia is scared at all...I also don't think Nvidia has nearly enough resources to buy out AMD...That number would have to be in the Billions...Not gonna happen...

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Extelleron

The HD 3870 X2 is a single PCB card like any normal graphics card you buy. It has two GPUs on the same PCB, which is a better way of doing things than gluing two cards together.

Why is that? The only advantage I can see to it is aftermarket coolers, which is kind of a niche market anyway. (and I don't know if there are, or will be, any aftermarket coolers for 3870X2s) Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

I was wondering about this myself... Is there something inherently better about having everything on one PCB that I'm not aware of? As I understand it the HD3870X2 is a 12 layer PCB whereas the single gpu HD3870 is a six layer PCB, so it kind of seems like it's still "two PCBs glued together", it just seems like the 'glue' is in a diiferent place. I honestly don't think that a single PCB or mutli-PCB solution is inherently better either way, I think it depends more on the overall implementation of the technology.

 

[biostud]

it's probably cheaper to produce a single PCB, and the cooling might be advantageous to.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: biostud
it's probably cheaper to produce a single PCB, and the cooling might be advantageous to.

12 layer PCB's are more expensive to make than say, 6 layer PCB's. So the cost to manufacture one 12 layer PCB and two 6 layer PCB's might even out.

This is kind of like the argument between AMD and Intel Quad cores. AMD fans believe the Phenoms are better simply because it's a "more elegant" design in their eyes. What they need to point their eyes to, is the benchmarks. LOL.

 

[Cookie Monster]

nVIDIA recently acquired Ageia (thanks to having 1.5~2billion cash left lying about). Each Q for nVIDIA results in record breaking growth for consecutive Qs on almost all market segments. Their market cap has grown or almost doubled. Their dev relations is so far ahead im not sure how the competition can penetrate this area. nVIDIA probably has cut alot of cost in R&D and such thanks to the G80 architecture that has kept them going strong for ~2 years.

Now more can be said but nobody is "scared" especially nVIDIA. Why should they be? because the competition released a faster product that however isnt consistent in its performance out one month ahead? I mean if this was based on the IGP market especially in the notebook market than i can see nVIDIA worrying since AMD/ATi's IGPs are vastly superior to the competition in all areas.

The thing is, ATi got acquired by AMD (wonder why?). nVIDIA is the only sole survivor of a far larger competition back from the 90s.

With the release of 8200/9600GT/9800GX2/730a/750a/780a boards soon, this will keep them competitive til the real next gen NV product hits Q208.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

But ATi is currently ahead in the benchmarks. (go ahead, tell me it's AMD) Crossfire also scales better then SLi... Plus, Nvidia may be doing well now, but what are they going to do when Intel and AMD lock themselves into Fusion and integrated GPUs? They might be able to sell discrete GPUs to intel customers, but that's a pretty big cut of the market they're missing. Most people don't even know what a GPU is... They are more interested in Fusion then the HD50870X8 or the GX12800GTSX2 or whatever will be out later.

BTW, is the 9800GX2 also read as a single card?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
But ATi is currently ahead in the benchmarks. (go ahead, tell me it's AMD) Crossfire also scales better then SLi... Plus, Nvidia may be doing well now, but what are they going to do when Intel and AMD lock themselves into Fusion and integrated GPUs? They might be able to sell discrete GPUs to intel customers, but that's a pretty big cut of the market they're missing. Most people don't even know what a GPU is... They are more interested in Fusion then the HD50870X8 or the GX12800GTSX2 or whatever will be out later.

BTW, is the 9800GX2 also read as a single card?

Dunno. Would you want your Dual core CPU to register as a single CPU in task manager and device manager?

What does one have to do with the other, you ask?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Fusion and its incantations are currently only for the low end where it makes sense especially the notebook market. This isnt happening anytime soon. But just imagine the deduction in production cost for the laptops. The discrete market will still be here as long as there are customers (which there are many) and thats why intel's discrete video card codenamed "larabee" is being slated for 2010 release (or 2009?).

Crossfire scaling better than SLi can be argued about but im not too sure about this. (could be an interesting subject for another thread)

The 9800GX2 is a dual GPU card. So is the HD 3870X2. The only single i can think of is the fact that they use one PCI-e x16 slot. Both are based on multi GPU technology i.e SLi/Crossfire and i.e suffer from its weaknesses.

 

[conlan]

Originally posted by: nRollo
NVIDIA could likely buy AMD/ATi with cash. I don't think they're cowering out in Santa Clara.

Lol! Rollo, you haven't changed one bit.

 

[Janooo]

Is GX2 going to require SLI mobo?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Extelleron

The HD 3870 X2 is a single PCB card like any normal graphics card you buy. It has two GPUs on the same PCB, which is a better way of doing things than gluing two cards together.

Why is that? The only advantage I can see to it is aftermarket coolers, which is kind of a niche market anyway. (and I don't know if there are, or will be, any aftermarket coolers for 3870X2s) Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I don't know if nVidia is scared of AMD right now, but they probably will be long term. nVidia fills a small niche product with its high-end graphics cards and most of the market is on IGP, where AMD definately has the advantage with the latest generation. Also, OEMs are more likely to choose a package deal from AMD with a IGP motherboard + CPU than go with an AMD CPU + nVidia motherboard. That alone is a significant segment of the market that nVidia is going to be forced out of. That's not even mentioning Fusion.

I think NVIDIA has a larger share of AMDs platform market than AMD and ATi- I'll look into it more later if someone likes. I believe one of their managers in the motherboard division told me they make over 60% of the AMD motherboards sold recently.
Beyond that, AMD has always been a bit player in their markets. I believe their highest market share ever is 21% for CPUs, and their current ones have errata errors, or are far lower IPC than their competition. I don't see a huge OEM shift to AMD- their latest problems will keep the "No one was ever fired for buying Intel" alive in the corporate world still.
(which is unfortunate- I've supported AMD whenever I could going back to 486 days)

Originally posted by: Extelleron
If you ask me, nVidia is in trouble long term because they are the only company in industry that only produces GPUs; they are competing with AMD and Intel, two companies with significantly more resources and who also produce CPUs.

I don't think AMD has more resources than NVIDIA these days, they're losing money, borrowing it to stay afloat, and have a crushing debt load.

NVIDIA competes very well in the graphics and motherboard MCP markets, and I think their business model is working well for them.

People have been saying what you just did since AMD bought ATi a year and a half ago. Since then AMDs market cap has dropped over $10B, and NVIDIA's has almost doubled.

Something to consider when predicting "AMD will bury NVIDIA soon".

Let's put this in *perspective* ... there is ONE and only *one* reason why nvidia is in a good situation financially. Only because ATi was completely out of the picture -
any company will do well if there is no competition in their market - they really aren't geniuses.

For over six long months their new 8800 series crushed the old x1900 series performance wise. AND for over another six months ALL AMD had was a mid-range solution - the 2900xt which competed with 8800GTS series ... not GTX.

Sadly for nvidia - in their supreme arrogance - like intel once did with AMD - assumed AMD would no longer compete in the high end.

Wrong. Bad mistake. They actually allowed themselves to be misdirected by AMD's marketing this time [while *we* knew better]. While nvidia sat on their dead asses for whatever reason, AMD was allowed to stage a comeback on several 'fronts' and now - suddenly - nvidia has competition again - very strong competition from a company with far more marketing sense and resources than their old rival, ATi. And i believe this AMD is determined to make nvidia a 2nd rate player for good. You can be sure nvidia is NOT at all happy with losing the performance crown - especially to a company they once recently gave up for dead.
---Let's see if they can pull off another "g80" .... i seriously doubt it this go around.

You want *proof* nvidia is scared ? They sent their head cheerleader back to ATF to help them out again. And posted that FUD document to try and combat the surprisingly successful X2 GPU.
:Q
-look at nvidia's 'timing' for their counterattack ... pretty smart - but it is not something they would like to do ... rather it is something they have to do. i.e. To humble themselves before a Internet forum. It's clear to me that nvidia doesn't like the 'writing on the wall'.

analysis complete

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: conlan

Originally posted by: nRollo
NVIDIA could likely buy AMD/ATi with cash. I don't think they're cowering out in Santa Clara.

Lol! Rollo, you haven't changed one bit.

You know what they say about leapards and spots...

One thing that has changed is I won't violate TOS.

My tour of duty as a nZone moderator during the Vista launch days has given me a healthy respect for the other side of the forum world.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Janooo
Is GX2 going to require SLI mobo?

No, it won't. I haven't seen the launch presentation on it yet, but 7950GX2 didn't I don't why this gen would go backwards from tech they had a year and a half ago.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Janooo
Is GX2 going to require SLI mobo?

Now that's a good question. I was curious about this as well, and couldn't remember if the 7950GX2 required an SLI mobo.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Fusion and its incantations are currently only for the low end where it makes sense especially the notebook market. This isnt happening anytime soon. But just imagine the deduction in production cost for the laptops. The discrete market will still be here as long as there are customers (which there are many) and thats why intel's discrete video card codenamed "larabee" is being slated for 2010 release (or 2009?).

Crossfire scaling better than SLi can be argued about but im not too sure about this. (could be an interesting subject for another thread)

The 9800GX2 is a dual GPU card. So is the HD 3870X2. The only single i can think of is the fact that they use one PCI-e x16 slot. Both are based on multi GPU technology i.e SLi/Crossfire and i.e suffer from its weaknesses.

And that's where the vast majority of the market is. I don't have any figures, but I would bet that most of nVidia's revenue comes from IGP and low-end GPU sales. There is a market for high-end gaming cards, but that market is pretty small although highly profitable.

I never said that nVidia is scared because of the HD 3870 X2, or even R700. Even if nVidia is outperformed, it will still do well in the high-end market; they have done so for many years even when being outclassed by the X1900 hardware.

The reason nVidia should be worried is that the big source of revenue in the graphics industry, the low-end/IGP, is being taken by AMD/Intel. For AMD's 20-25% of the market, AMD's new chipsets will probably be the norm as they will be offered in package deals with AMD CPUs and also AMD's new IGP performs very well. As I said before, this will only get more pronounced when AMD launches Fusion in 2009.

On the Intel side, things look better for nVidia but there are still problems. Even now, Intel's IGP solutions are very popular although they offer terrible performance. In 2009, Intel will launch Nehalem parts with integrated GPUs, which should significantly cut into nVidia's market. Eventually Intel will launch an actual graphics card, although what that will be like is unknown.

I'm not denying nVidia's current success. Their financials look great and if you focus on right now, they look like the dominant force in the graphics industry. But look 2 years from now and I see a number of problems for nVidia. I don't see much change in the high-end, although IMO R700 will be superior to GT200 and probably consume less power because of 55nm vs. 65nm. The real problem is the loss of the IGP/low-end market. AMD's 20-25% of the market will be largely cut off by AMD's new chipsets, AMD's HD 3400 series and its sucessors, and Fusion when it launches in 2009. Intel's portion of the market is already dominated by Intel's IGP solutions and this will only get worse with certain Nehalem variants including an integrated GPU, not to mention Intel's discrete GPUs that should launch in the 2009-2010 timeframe.

I think the forces are aligned against nVidia at this time. Not only for the reasons I mentioned above, even in discrete GPUs nVidia is in trouble. AMD has changed ATI, they are no longer the company with the highest performing cards but horrible low-end/mid-range cards and non-existant marketing. If you look at the high-end of the market, I'd recommend nVidia except in the case of the $400+ market where the HD 3870 X2 is your best bet. But in the sub $200 market, the HD 3850 is the best deal at this time and at $99, the HD 3650 is competitive. The HD 3450/3470 are without competition at this time in the $49/59 price range.

nVidia is not only facing problems from Intel and AMD's IGPs/integrated GPUs, they are also facing a problem in the graphics card market.

 

[apoppin]

The *only* reason nvidia is doing well is because they had NO competition for over a year

[period]

it *helped* that the 8800 was a decent and successful GPU

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Extelleron

The HD 3870 X2 is a single PCB card like any normal graphics card you buy. It has two GPUs on the same PCB, which is a better way of doing things than gluing two cards together.

Why is that? The only advantage I can see to it is aftermarket coolers, which is kind of a niche market anyway. (and I don't know if there are, or will be, any aftermarket coolers for 3870X2s) Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

Originally posted by: Extelleron
I don't know if nVidia is scared of AMD right now, but they probably will be long term. nVidia fills a small niche product with its high-end graphics cards and most of the market is on IGP, where AMD definately has the advantage with the latest generation. Also, OEMs are more likely to choose a package deal from AMD with a IGP motherboard + CPU than go with an AMD CPU + nVidia motherboard. That alone is a significant segment of the market that nVidia is going to be forced out of. That's not even mentioning Fusion.

I think NVIDIA has a larger share of AMDs platform market than AMD and ATi- I'll look into it more later if someone likes. I believe one of their managers in the motherboard division told me they make over 60% of the AMD motherboards sold recently.
Beyond that, AMD has always been a bit player in their markets. I believe their highest market share ever is 21% for CPUs, and their current ones have errata errors, or are far lower IPC than their competition. I don't see a huge OEM shift to AMD- their latest problems will keep the "No one was ever fired for buying Intel" alive in the corporate world still.
(which is unfortunate- I've supported AMD whenever I could going back to 486 days)

Originally posted by: Extelleron
If you ask me, nVidia is in trouble long term because they are the only company in industry that only produces GPUs; they are competing with AMD and Intel, two companies with significantly more resources and who also produce CPUs.

I don't think AMD has more resources than NVIDIA these days, they're losing money, borrowing it to stay afloat, and have a crushing debt load.

NVIDIA competes very well in the graphics and motherboard MCP markets, and I think their business model is working well for them.

People have been saying what you just did since AMD bought ATi a year and a half ago. Since then AMDs market cap has dropped over $10B, and NVIDIA's has almost doubled.

Something to consider when predicting "AMD will bury NVIDIA soon".

let's put this in *perspective* ... there is ONE and only *one* reason why nvidia is in a good situation financially. Because ATi was comoletely out of the picture.

For six log months their 8800 crushed the old x1900 series performance wise. AND for another six months ALL AMD had was a mid-range solution - the 2900xt which competed with 8800GTS series ,,, not GTX.

Sadly, nvidia in their supreme arrogance - like intel once did with AMD - assumed AMD would no longer compete in the high end.

Wrong. Bad mistake. While nvidia sat on their asses for whatever reason, AMD was allowed to stage a comeback ... and now - suddenly - nvidia has competition again - strong competition. YOu can be sure they are NOT at all happy with losing the performance crown - especially to a company they gave up for dead.
Let's see if they can pull off another "g80" .... i seriously doubt it this go around.

You want *proof* nvidia is scared ? They sent their head cheerleader back to ATF to help them out again.
:Q
-look at 'timing' ... pretty smart - but it is not something they would like to do ... rather it is something they have to do. nvidia doesn't like the 'writing on the wall'.

Here's how I came to be back at AT.

I was in a conference call with NVIDIA and Anand about some upcoming products a couple weeks ago. I wasn't saying much, because I prepped questions for the wrong product. (wasn't told what this was, I assumed)

Anand was cracking jokes and doing most of the talking other than the NVIDIA presenters, and it reminded me of how much I liked the community here. (which I honestly haven't thought of much for two years- I popped in now and again to read, but generally lost touch)

After the meeting I told one of the guys at nV that Anand seemed like great guy, and that I missed posting here. And then I forgot about it.

A couple weeks later I got an email from Derek saying my thoughts had been forwarded to them, and that they would let me back on in a provisional basis.

There was no marketing plan and I seriously doubt NVIDIA wanted me back here as a response to the 3870X2.

If I'm the best they have as a response to the 3870X2, they should be scared!

Fortunately for them what they really have is a bit better than me, I think they can survive a few weeks. (Rollo or no)

So there you have it.

 

[apoppin]

I was in a conference call with NVIDIA and Anand ...

as i said ... everything is timing
... and coincidence

--thanks for the details

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: nRollo
Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

There has never been a single PCB, dual GPU nVidia video card made, ever. The 7950X2 was dual PCB, and it was their first ever attempt at putting two GPU's on one video card. There was never any attempt to produce a dual GPU 6800 series. I thought everyone knew that.

The reason that a single PCB is a better design is that with electronics, the farther any signal has to travel, the longer it takes that signal to arrive. That's the reason that AMD's K6-2's got pummeled by Pentium 2's. The K6-2 had no L2 cache, the L2 cache was located on the motherboard. Even thogh the K6-2 had between twice and eight times as much L2 as the PII (depending on which motherboard you bought), since the PII's L2 was on-chip (it wasn't on-die yet), the K6-2 got slaughtered. Then AMD came out with the K6-III, which had the same amount of on-CPU cache as the PII, and the majority of the K6-2's performance deficit quickly vanished.

That's also the reason that Intel was able to make up the 100 Mhz performance deficit that the original Athlons had over the original Katmai PIII-- Intel just moved the L2 cache on-die. Of course, assuming you've read any any of the reviews of the 3870X2, SLI'd 8800GT's outperform a 3870X2, in nearly every game. That means that two 8800GT's on one card, even if it's being penalized by the dual PCB disavantage, should still outperform a single 3870X2, at least in most games, at most resolutions.

I think NVIDIA has a larger share of AMDs platform market than AMD and ATi

You think right. While I don't know the exact figures, I do know that nVidia's chipsets have been by far the top selling AMD chipset, at least since the intoduction of the nForce3. And the nForce4 sold at least 50 times as well as the nForce3.

I don't think AMD has more resources than NVIDIA these days, they're losing money, borrowing it to stay afloat, and have a crushing debt load.

There isn't really any douibt about that, is there?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: nRollo
Beyond that, NVIDIA OEMs made single PCB/dual GPU SLi solutions for the 6 and 7 series, are you saying if they do again for the 8 series it will be better than dual PCB somehow? Why?

There has never been a single PCB, dual GPU nVidia video card made, ever. The 7950X2 was dual PCB, and it was their first ever attempt at putting two GPU's on one video card. There was never any attempt to produce a dual GPU 6800 series. I thought everyone knew that.

Note the bolded part. There was never an offical SKU from nVIDIA but rather its partners toying around with the idea of a single PCB dual GPU board.

One example. Gigabyte GV-3D1-68GT

Or this Asus's one