NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 To Be Based on GK114 GPU

tviceman

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Like I said in the other thread, if Nvidia did not add AT LEAST another memory controller onto the die, then I don't see how they'll get a 15% performance increase out of GK104. If they are deciding to use 7ghz vram and keep the same 256-bit bus, that is a 16% memory bandwidth increase, so we'd be looking at 15% best case scenario.
 

blastingcap

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Sep 16, 2010
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Like I said in the other thread, given GeForce margins are << Tesla/Quadro margins, and there may be some 28nm capacity constraints for the larger GPUs like GK110, I found it doubtful that GK110 would ever be released as a GeForce, at least in meaningful numbers and not as part of some publicity stunt. A modified GK104, perhaps with more memory bandwidth or something, may be just enough to stave off AMD and reclaim the single-GPU crown, while GK110 rakes in the dough from professional markets.
 

brandon888

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Jun 28, 2012
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can anyone explain me one thing please ....

it's better to have 256 bit interface and clocked memory up to 6GHZ and get like 192 GT/s ? or like on gtx 580 have 384 bit on lower clocks but equal 192 GT/s? or it does not matters and important is only Memory bandwidth result ?


note : i dont compare 580 and 680 .. i compare only Memory bandwidth ....
 

tviceman

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can anyone explain me one thing please ....

it's better to have 256 bit interface and clocked memory up to 6GHZ and get like 192 GT/s ? or like on gtx 580 have 384 bit on lower clocks but equal 192 GT/s? or it does not matters and important is only Memory bandwidth result ?


note : i dont compare 580 and 680 .. i compare only Memory bandwidth ....

The bandwidth is the same so it's indifferent insofar as performance when memory bandwidth constrained. HOWEVER, more memory controllers usually translates into more ROP's and TMU's, which by itself has a large effect on increasing performance. SOOO, given the same situation, a GPU (of the same architecture) with more ROP's and texture units will have better performance most of the time even if memory bandwidth is the same.
 

Smartazz

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Dec 29, 2005
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can anyone explain me one thing please ....

it's better to have 256 bit interface and clocked memory up to 6GHZ and get like 192 GT/s ? or like on gtx 580 have 384 bit on lower clocks but equal 192 GT/s? or it does not matters and important is only Memory bandwidth result ?


note : i dont compare 580 and 680 .. i compare only Memory bandwidth ....

Or you can have cards like the 7970 which have way more memory bandwidth. Hopefully the 8970 isn't as much of a let down as a GK114 chip would be.
 

brandon888

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Jun 28, 2012
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The bandwidth is the same so it's indifferent insofar as performance when memory bandwidth constrained. HOWEVER, more memory controllers usually translates into more ROP's and TMU's, which by itself has a large effect on increasing performance. SOOO, given the same situation, a GPU (of the same architecture) with more ROP's and texture units will have better performance most of the time even if memory bandwidth is the same.

huh okay :D thanks :D


seems like it will be Fermi 2.0 ..... sad ... very sad .... same performance gain like 480 to 580 ... there is no point to wait 700 series ... better get 670/680 and then upgrade on maxwell ....
 

Ventanni

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I have a feeling that, because there's no die node change, that the Radeon 8000 and Nvidia 700 series will be approximately the same performance improvement as the Radeon 5000-->6000 and Geforce 400-->500 series was.
 

RussianSensation

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Sep 5, 2003
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can anyone explain me one thing please ....

it's better to have 256 bit interface and clocked memory up to 6GHZ and get like 192 GT/s ? or like on gtx 580 have 384 bit on lower clocks but equal 192 GT/s? or it does not matters and important is only Memory bandwidth result ?

It depends. On one hand it's better to have lower memory bus width if the company can achieve the same memory bandwidth because lower memory bus reduces the complexity of the memory controller (i.e., saves transistor space) and the PCB. Therefore, it's normally cheaper to manufacture a card with 256-bit bus than a 384-bit bus. On the other hand, if you are limited by GDDR5 memory speed, you may have no choice but to increase memory bandwidth by means of widening the bus. Higher performing GDDR5 modules may also cost more $ than widening the bus, depending on a generation and some memory controllers (i.e., Fermi) do not work with higher speed GDDR5 memory. Therefore, a lot of it has to deal with engineering limitations. Generally speaking though, lower memory bus saves energy and reduces costs. For overclockers a wider bus can be better since for every 1mhz increase in memory speed, there is a larger increase in memory bandwidth if you have a wider memory bus.

This round, NV did well with only having to use a 256-bit bus, which is a win-win from a power consumption and cost perspectives. Pairing 256-bit bus with 2GB allowed NV to hit the sweet spot while AMD used a more exotic 384-bit bus on a pixel / ROP limited architecture and had to incur larger costs of 3GB GDDR5 memory that doesn't have much benefit yet. Unless NV widens the bus though, their chance of increasing performance substantially at higher resolutions is very limited as tviceman keeps alluding, unless we are talking in modes with FXAA/MLAA or TXAA.

From a strategic perspective, I also think NV wants to leave a larger performance increase for Maxwell. Lower manufacturing node on a more advanced architecture will allow that GPU to be much faster than GTX780 compared to how 780 will look vs. 680. With most games most likely continuing to be console ports with high resolution textures and sprinkled DX11 effects in 2013 (just look at 2012), there is also less pressure for both AMD and NV to deliver 50% more performance.
 
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brandon888

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Jun 28, 2012
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I have a feeling that, because there's no die node change, that the Radeon 8000 and Nvidia 700 series will be approximately the same performance improvement as the Radeon 5000-->6000 and Geforce 400-->500 series was.

so as i understand it's pointless to wait for 700 series ya ? for everyone .... i glad i bought 670 ... no regrets now ... no GK 110 with magic 60% more performance then 680
 

Rvenger

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator <br> Video Cards
Apr 6, 2004
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I have a feeling that, because there's no die node change, that the Radeon 8000 and Nvidia 700 series will be approximately the same performance improvement as the Radeon 5000-->6000 and Geforce 400-->500 series was.



Good.. then that means I won't have a reason to get an upgrade itch. I can focus on Haswell. :)
 

brandon888

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Jun 28, 2012
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It depends. On one hand it's better to have lower memory bus width if the company can achieve the same memory bandwidth because lower memory bus reduces the complexity of the memory controller (i.e., saves transistor space) and the PCB. Therefore, it's normally cheaper to manufacture a card with 256-bit bus than a 384-bit bus. On the other hand, if you are limited by GDDR5 memory speed, you may have no choice but to increase memory bandwidth by means of widening the bus. Higher performing GDDR5 modules may also cost more $ than widening the bus, depending on a generation and some memory controllers (i.e., Fermi) do not work with higher speed GDDR5 memory. Therefore, a lot of has to deal with engineering limitations. Generally speaking though, lower memory bus saves energy and reduces costs. For overclockers a wider bus can be better since for every 1mhz increase in memory speed, there is a larger increase in memory bandwidth if you have a wider memory controller.

This round, NV did well with only having to use a 256-bit bus, which is a win-win from a power consumption and cost perspectives. Pairing 256-bit bus with 2GB allowed NV to hit the sweet spot while AMD used a more exotic 384-bit bus on a pixel / ROP limited architecture and had to incur larger costs of 3GB GDDR5 memory that doesn't have much benefit yet. Unless NV widens the bus though, their chance of increasing performance substantially at higher resolutions is very limited as tviceman keeps alluding, unless we are talking in modes with FXAA/MLAA or TXAA.

From a strategic perspective, I also think NV wants to leave a larger performance increase for Maxwell. Lower manufacturing node on a more advanced architecture will allow that GPU to be much faster than GTX780 compared to how 780 will look vs. 680. With most games most likely continuing to be console ports with high resolution textures and sprinkled DX11 effects in 2013 (just look at 2012), there is also less pressure for both AMD and NV to deliver 50% more performance.



Wow ! you always remain so objective :D and answer so clear ....

nvidia makes cards for 1080P mostly .... cause most people use it .... consoles hold back GPUs it's true and sad ;/ before next generation it's pointless to make 50% stronger cards ;/
 

Anarchist420

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IF this is true, then nvidia and AMD are only in business because of their patents and the US fed govt recycling their waste for them.

The market needs to be free so it can correct their asses and maybe so it can correct me too. I favor a 100% voluntary approach... not this 50% crap that keeps these big fat statist businessmen richer than they probably would be.
 

Anarchist420

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Haswell also will be 10% faster then ivy ... not much
Again, there are three factors here... they are the strong IP legislation here, too many US dollars, and regulations in the EU which have really strengthed intel since their HQ are in the U.S. Intel has a huge advantage but they can't and won't take advantage of it because it is an official institution run by flawed men protected by even more flawed official bureaucrats.

If a business has its main office in CA then chances are that it's wasteful, inefficient, and/or corrupt.
 

RussianSensation

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Sep 5, 2003
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Haswell also will be 10% faster then ivy ... not much :D

Because Haswell will use the fluxless solder of Sandy Bridge, I expect it to overclock better than Ivy Bridge, i.e., 4.9-5.0ghz on air. 10% IPC and 500mhz more on average over IVB may net us 20-22% more performance (5.0ghz Haswell vs. 4.5ghz IVB). Most demanding games should continue to be GPU limited, especially if GTX780/8970 are just 15-20% faster than today's high end cards. One advantage of this console generation lasting this long is that it allows you to keep your CPU and GPU for much longer than in the past. GTX670 should easily last you until Maxwell. It's not necessary to upgrade every single generation if the gains are minimal.
 

blastingcap

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Sep 16, 2010
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GTX670 should easily last you until Maxwell. It's not necessary to upgrade every single generation if the gains are minimal.

120 Hz

3D

3 monitors

Upgrading to 27" 2560x1440 monitor or larger from a 1920x1200 panel or smaller

As enthusiasts, we will invent reasons to upgrade, consolification be damned! :)
 

Siberian

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Jul 10, 2012
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Like I said in the other thread, given GeForce margins are << Tesla/Quadro margins, and there may be some 28nm capacity constraints for the larger GPUs like GK110, I found it doubtful that GK110 would ever be released as a GeForce, at least in meaningful numbers and not as part of some publicity stunt. A modified GK104, perhaps with more memory bandwidth or something, may be just enough to stave off AMD and reclaim the single-GPU crown, while GK110 rakes in the dough from professional markets.

This is the way I see it. I imagine there could be a 110 refresh available next year. We need more high end graphics in games and more Korean monitors to get people to want a lot more from their video cards.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
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This is epic fail.

Nvidia is going to try to give it to us all dry with more of the same crap now. No voltage control, crummy memory bandwidth and junk performance increases from generation to generation.
 

hokies83

Senior member
Oct 3, 2010
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Because Haswell will use the fluxless solder of Sandy Bridge, I expect it to overclock better than Ivy Bridge, i.e., 4.9-5.0ghz on air. 10% IPC and 500mhz more on average over IVB may net us 20-22% more performance (5.0ghz Haswell vs. 4.5ghz IVB). Most demanding games should continue to be GPU limited, especially if GTX780/8970 are just 15-20% faster than today's high end cards. One advantage of this console generation lasting this long is that it allows you to keep your CPU and GPU for much longer than in the past. GTX670 should easily last you until Maxwell. It's not necessary to upgrade every single generation if the gains are minimal.

Until you de lid IB and run a 3770k @ 5.3ghz on a H-100 24/7... like alot of people are doing now...

Some people are Even Hitting 5.5ghz on Air... IB is pure win.. it was intels fail for that stupid Glue that puts the IHS to far from the cores... Remove glue = Enter Overclocking beast...

And if you can not spend 1$ at a hardware store for a very thin razor blade that is that persons fault...

Also if you do not have the skill to cut around the IHS which is so easy it is a Joke you do not need to be over clocking a Cpu anyways...
 
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zaydq

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Jul 8, 2012
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Until you de lid IB and run a 3770k @ 5.3ghz on a H-100 24/7... like alot of people are doing now...

Some people are Even Hitting 5.5ghz on Air... IB is pure win.. it was intels fail for that stupid Glue that puts the IHS to far from the cores... Remove glue = Enter Overclocking beast...

And if you can not spend 1$ at a hardware store for a very thin razor blade that is that persons fault...

Also if you do not have the skill to cut around the IHS which is so easy it is a Joke you do not need to be over clocking a Cpu anyways...

Some people are not comfortable doing that though. You can't hate them for not wanting to take a bit of an extreme approach to hit their OC goals. You said it in your post, Intel goofed with their glue, why should the OC'er all of a sudden not be allowed to OC because of Intel's design flaw?
 

hokies83

Senior member
Oct 3, 2010
837
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Some people are not comfortable doing that though. You can't hate them for not wanting to take a bit of an extreme approach to hit their OC goals. You said it in your post, Intel goofed with their glue, why should the OC'er all of a sudden not be allowed to OC because of Intel's design flaw?

If you call yourself an Overclocker removing the IHS should be no issues... I do not see it as Extreme at all.. it is so simple heck it is more easy then taking the cooler off a gpu...
Get thin razor.. Be careful cut glue in a square pattern.. put on tim.. put cpu back in tray put on Ihs close lock.. install cooler..

Only people who would not be up for it are those are are complete novices.. first time rig builders are doing it on OCN... Or people with SB cpus getting deflated by how much more a cpu that is already faster clock for clock then there cpu.. will overclock my 5.3ghz is a 2700k @ 5.5ghz minus all the z77 chipset goodies and the imc when they been crying about IB heat now for months.

It is so easy it is funny.. And the results are un godly worth it...
 
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zaydq

Senior member
Jul 8, 2012
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If you call yourself an Overclocker removing the IHS should be no issues... I do not see it as Extreme at all.. it is so simple heck it is more easy then taking the cooler off a gpu...
Get thin razor.. Be careful cut glue in a square pattern.. put on tim.. put cpu back in tray put on Ihs close lock.. install cooler..

Only people who would not be up for it are those are are complete novices.. first time rig builders are doing it on OCN... Or people with SB cpus getting deflated by how much more a cpu that is already faster clock for clock then there cpu.. will overclock my 5.3ghz is a 2700k @ 5.5ghz minus all the z77 chipset goodies and the imc when they been crying about IB heat now for months.

It is so easy it is funny.. And the results are un godly worth it...

I get ya, but I still don't think every single person that wants to over clock their cpu should have to sit down and quickly modify it to work. Not everyone has the money to buy a new one if they mess up.
 

SpeedTester

Senior member
Mar 18, 2001
995
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Until you de lid IB and run a 3770k @ 5.3ghz on a H-100 24/7... like alot of people are doing now...

Some people are Even Hitting 5.5ghz on Air... IB is pure win.. it was intels fail for that stupid Glue that puts the IHS to far from the cores... Remove glue = Enter Overclocking beast...

And if you can not spend 1$ at a hardware store for a very thin razor blade that is that persons fault...

Also if you do not have the skill to cut around the IHS which is so easy it is a Joke you do not need to be over clocking a Cpu anyways...

How can one make an opinion on a technology that hasn't been finalized yet? The 700 series would work for people who skipped the whole 500 & 600 series. I guess we will have the wait and see.
Getting way off topic here but I can say your statement about a lot of people hitting 5.3ghz is bullshit. A very very small % of people can even come close to this with a real water cooler let alone h100. So take your mad overclocking skills and buy a big boy cooling setup since you make everything sound so easy.