BTRY B 529th FA BN
Lifer
- Nov 26, 2005
- 15,093
- 312
- 126
If we all were told something and took it at face value, the world would be a big heap of doo-doo.
This is 90% of graduating HS kids.
If we all were told something and took it at face value, the world would be a big heap of doo-doo.
I think this is a company size issue (correct me if I'm wrong), and I imagine DAMMIT's driver/software team is smaller than NVIDIA's, and therefore they must choose where to spend their time. In that sense, gaming performance sells graphics cards, not Linux distro's.Does anyone know what's up with Linux support for ATi products? I'm a big Linux fan, and from what I've seen, Nvidia has been very good about driver support. Admittedly, I'm running a bit behind the curve (8800GTX FTW!), but as far as I can tell, Nvidia products tend to get drivers long before ATI drivers.
Does anyone know what's up with Linux support for ATi products? I'm a big Linux fan, and from what I've seen, Nvidia has been very good about driver support. Admittedly, I'm running a bit behind the curve (8800GTX FTW!), but as far as I can tell, Nvidia products tend to get drivers long before ATI drivers.
I bet ATI is going to have a refresh sooner than latter . Anyone but a fanboy would have already bought Ati 5000 seies/ As it is with NV 7 months late. TO buy NV after its released is idoit (fanboy only territory) Ati will be serving up Its next processor very soon . If the wait for fermi was OK its just as smart to wait on ATi refresh which only gives fermi 1 life of 6 months or less as a ATI rolls out refreshes in sept. To buy fermi 1 is plain retarded. With Fermi 2 and ATI releasing new processor in sept.(aTI) Fermi 2 who knows when it sees light of day.
You wouldn't buy a 470 for $259? How about $200? How about $150?
There is a price point at which NV's new offering is the clear choice above all others and not a "special" purchase at all. It's just that we all expect the initial pricepoint will be high enough to make the few boards available to a very narrow group of people with very specific needs. Be that fandom or the desire to run Linux.
Well the expectation is that ATI will keep their pricing competitive. We know that logistically NVidia can't win in a price war.
Current state of the art for ATI on linux:
Open source drivers have decent support for golden oldies (R200, R300) and very good 2D performance on newer chips. Stability is excellent. Compiz and desktop effects function well on 4 series and older hardware. Rudimentary support for getting text and VGA with the 5 series. Gaming runs at about 1/20th windows performance in wine and 1/4th the speed of fglrx with native opengl games, never mind the speed of windows drivers. Power management is coming along on some GPUs, and some 4 series models no longer run at full blast 3d clocks and voltage 24x7. No video decode acceleration yet. Pot luck displayport and multihead support. No crossfire.
Closed source (fglrx) is a nightmarish mess. Power management functions, but often locks the entire machine coming out of standby or exiting X. Semi-functional video decode acceleration. Does not support latest (read: 8 month old released) X server or modern kernels. Extremely slow 2D. Wine performance is awful (though better than the open source driver), and oftentimes buggy. Composited desktops work with some monthly releases and break with others. Crossfire is mostly unsupported. No support for cards older than the 2xxx series or mobility versions. Hit and miss support for 5 series (some still show an "unsupported hardware" watermark in X).
I have no complaints about NV's closed driver support on Linux. It supports all the desktop usage functions I require, so I haven't had to investigate any issues. The general concensus is STAY THE HELL AWAY from ati hardware if you intend to run Linux with anything more advanced than a basic VGA framebuffer.
I have no complaints about NV's closed driver support on Linux. It supports all the desktop usage functions I require, so I haven't had to investigate any issues. The general concensus is STAY THE HELL AWAY from ati hardware if you intend to run Linux with anything more advanced than a basic VGA framebuffer.
As I said before, there really isn't enough information to qualify that unless you buy graphics cards only based on performance numbers. We still don't have any confirmed data on power consumption, noise (actual dB and quality), as well as feature support (how well does nfinity work?), etc.Well, I wouldn't go that far... if the performance numbers we have are true, as long as the price is right than Fermi might be a good buy. But, I'm willing to bet that the price will not make sense for the performance it offers.
I'd imagine the 5xxx series cards are much cheaper to make than the Fermi cards though. Add in the fact that Fermi is probably going to be available in extremely limited quantities for some time, I doubt you'll be seeing NVIDIA enlist in such a strategy. My guess is you'll see 4x0 parts go for a high, but competitive MSRP on launch (or whenever they're available), followed by a few weeks of retailer price gouging. Depending on how supply and demand meets up after that, you'll see prices adjust accordingly. I could be totally wrong here, but it's just a hypothesis based on the current rumors/info floating around.OTOH, NV has far more cash and is able to afford a "loss leader" strategy if it makes sense whereas ATI has far less leeway. But we're in complete agreement. Everyone expects Fermi I to be stupidly expensive (even more so than G200) for the product's mercifully short lifetime.
Looks like more of the same, then.
As far as I'm concerned, I'll stick with Nvidia until they make the drivers work properly. There's a whole lot of rather nifty 3D effects I've become accustomed to while running Ubuntu, and it would be a shame to lose them.
You wouldn't buy a 470 for $259? How about $200? How about $150?
There is a price point at which NV's new offering is the clear choice above all others and not a "special" purchase at all. It's just that we all expect the initial pricepoint will be high enough to make the few boards available to a very narrow group of people with very specific needs. Be that fandom or the desire to run Linux.
With so few Fermi (and Tesla?) cards I'm wondering which businesses will risk buying them.
You bring up an excellent point re: RMA and dealing with failures. If I knew a product I'm buying for business use is EOLed even before it is released I certainly would give it a pass no matter how good seems. If it fails the risk is either a lengthy downtime to find an exact replacement or a round of qualifying for a new product. Or both.
It simply doesn't make sense to do such a limited run of Fermi considering tooling costs. Something just doesn't add up.
I bet ATI is going to have a refresh sooner than latter . Anyone but a fanboy would have already bought Ati 5000 seies/ As it is with NV 7 months late. TO buy NV after its released is idoit (fanboy only territory) Ati will be serving up Its next processor very soon . If the wait for fermi was OK its just as smart to wait on ATi refresh which only gives fermi 1 life of 6 months or less as a ATI rolls out refreshes in sept. To buy fermi 1 is plain retarded. With Fermi 2 and ATI releasing new processor in sept.(aTI) Fermi 2 who knows when it sees light of day.
So you know ATI's next gen product is 100% on track and will be released on time without any problems and will perform way better than current gen and will also be affordable?
Given that Fermi is at most competitive with ATI's offerings, anyone who wanted or needed an upgrade has already gotten a 5xxx part, save for a few NVIDIA hardcores (see Hitler video). Since Fermi doesn't add anything new to the market, there's no reason to jump on it. Logically, it therefore would be wise to wait another six months for Northern Lights (this is, of course, assuming it isn't delayed) to see what it has to offer, considering it is supposed to be a new architecture.So you know ATI's next gen product is 100% on track and will be released on time without any problems and will perform way better than current gen and will also be affordable?
Given that Fermi is at most competitive with ATI's offerings, anyone who wanted or needed an upgrade has already gotten a 5xxx part, save for a few NVIDIA hardcores
You have ZERO rights to ask me that question. As I have read all your post. I don't need to know the facts as far as your concerned . You wouldn't know facts from fiction if it ran you over.
Heres a fact. Since june of 09 these forums have been filled with NV hype BS. Its time for an old ATI fanboy to start hyping northern lights beings how Fermi will be here in 30 days. Time to market for ATI . I do it out of respect for the company and my brother inlaw use to work for ATI now with Intel . So I am self appointed ATI AEG member. LOL . The differance is I do it for fun and sport. I don't get free parts for hyping and marketing.
You have a lot to learn about the enthusiast sector, young padawan; we are but a speck on the horizon that is the video card market.No official reviews or benchmarks from unbiased, believable sources yet counters the first part of your sentence, and the recent steam hardware survey that shows out of 25 million users, only 3% have a 5700, 5800, or 5970 radeon card I beg to differ with the second part of your "anyone who wanted or needed an upgrade has gotten a 5xxx part".
You have a lot to learn about the enthusiast sector, young padawan; we are but a speck on the horizon that is the video card market.
Given that Fermi is at most competitive with ATI's offerings, anyone who wanted or needed an upgrade has already gotten a 5xxx part, save for a few NVIDIA hardcores (see Hitler video). Since Fermi doesn't add anything new to the market, there's no reason to jump on it. Logically, it therefore would be wise to wait another six months for Northern Lights (this is, of course, assuming it isn't delayed) to see what it has to offer, considering it is supposed to be a new architecture.
With so few Fermi (and Tesla?) cards I'm wondering which businesses will risk buying them.
You bring up an excellent point re: RMA and dealing with failures. If I knew a product I'm buying for business use is EOLed even before it is released I certainly would give it a pass no matter how good seems. If it fails the risk is either a lengthy downtime to find an exact replacement or a round of qualifying for a new product. Or both.
It simply doesn't make sense to do such a limited run of Fermi considering tooling costs. Something just doesn't add up.
Many Tesla customers won't even talk to NVIDIA about moving their algorithms to GPUs unless NVIDIA can deliver ECC support. The scale of their installations is so large that ECC is absolutely necessary (or at least perceived to be).