Nvidia disables *all* dvd playback when non-Macrovision tv chip is present starting with 41.09's and above

[Mooncalf]

Please be aware of the following new stance Nvidia is taking with the 41.09 drivers and all future releases.

The 41.09 and future drivers have more stringent checks in the driver to comply with the latest Macrovision requirements. If the TV encoder does not support Macrovision, you will get the "Macrovision Distribution Failed" error message or a similar message depending on which DVD software player you are using. The BT868 and Conexant CX25870 TV encoders do not support Macrovision. If your graphics card is equipped with one of these TV encoders, then it will not support DVD playback with our 41.09 drivers and above.

I believe it is illegal for them to choose to disable dvd playback on a pc even when the tv out function is disabled, not hooked up, and not in use. I suggest you write them and share your profound disappointment that for now on the only way you can watch dvds that you legally own on equipment that you legally own is to never update your drivers beyond the 40.72's.

Their drivers automatically lock all dvd playback, not just tv out, when a non-Macrovision approved tv encoder chip is detected (meaning those that have video cards that contain BT868 and Conexant CX25870 TV encoders).

Please spread the word of this new practice by Nvidia as I believe it is not legal for them to disable all, again not just when trying to use tv out, playback on legally owned equipment, software, and dvds.






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I just built a new computer, specs below, installing XP Pro, SP1, 2.03 motherboard drivers, DirectX 9, 41.09 Geforce drivers, and then PowerDVD XP 4 Deluxe and patch. I can't watch any dvds (that are copy protected) as it brings up the error code F4D41436 which means "the tv out port of your display card is not working properly" "This copy protected disc can not be played when the TV out function is enabled."

Attempting to find out exactly what this means and how to correct it Nvidia told me the following

The 41.09 and future drivers have more stringent checks in the driver to comply with the latest Macrovision requirements. If the TV encoder does not support Macrovision, you will get the "Macrovision Distribution Failed" error message or a similar message depending on which DVD software player you are using. The BT868 and Conexant CX25870 TV encoders do not support Macrovision. If your graphics card is equipped with one of these TV encoders, then it will not support DVD playback with our 41.09 drivers and above.

Nvidia sells GPU to leading add-in card manufacturers. We have no control over the TV encoder they put on the graphics card. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause.

That tv encoder is on my VisionTek Geforce3 Ti200 and I believe is/was one of the most popular ones used for those cards so this might affect a lot of people. My tv out is disabled, as it is by default I believe, yet from drivers 41.09 and above I will never be able to watch a dvd on my computer unless I no longer use PowerDVD as conveniently the drivers still work fine with NVDVD

Thank you for your email. NVDVD will work with the 41.09 drivers. Please make sure you have uninstalled PowerDVD before you install the trial version of NVDVD. The trial version of NVDVD will work for a period of 15 days so that you can verify compatibility with your system.

So basically this means that if you have a graphics card that happens to use a tv encoder that doesn't comply with the latest Macrovision requirements that Nvidia drivers will no longer allow you to watch a dvd on your computer unless you don't use PowerDVD (not sure what other dvd software progrrams it affects but they said NVDVD still works with them).

Anyone else bothered by this?

 

[Megatomic]

That definitely sucks for (probably) most GeForce card users but:

1) I still use/prefer the 30.82 drivers for XP
2) I am actually interested in buying a copy of NVDVD

This issue will not bother me until I get a GeForceFX 5600 Ultra (if I ever do).

 

[Czar]

I think something is seriously wrong with powerdvd + directx9

I have a Radeon 9700 pro and I can play movies with Powerdvd but I cant use theater mode, could before, when I had an install where I installed powerdvd on directx8 and then later upgraded to directx9.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Czar
I think something is seriously wrong with powerdvd + directx9

I have a Radeon 9700 pro and I can play movies with Powerdvd but I cant use theater mode, could before, when I had an install where I installed powerdvd on directx8 and then later upgraded to directx9.

Why are you using PowerDVD when ATI's software included ATI DVD player? I used it when I had a Radeon 7500 and it was a pretty nice program...

 

[Mooncalf]

So not being able to watch dvds that one owns on purchased equipment (dvdrom, video card, dvd software) because the video card drivers disbale your ability to do so is common? There is no way for me to watch dvds without paying for another dvd software program? I expected more people to be upset by this.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I expected more people to be upset by this.

Give it time, just wait until more people upgrade their drivers and have their DVD player stop working.

RIAA, MPAA - media war criminals.

 

[Lord Evermore]

What "Macrovision requirements"? Existing DVD players have to still be able to play the discs, which means the discs haven't changed. Did Macrovision put some pressure on nvidia to modify their software? What possible issue could different TV encoders cause so that Macrovision doesn't consider them "safe"? Do the "safe" ones output the video differently to deter copying? Does that mean they output a lower quality video, meaning Macrovision has now gotten nvidia to actually cause reduced performance and quality of devices and videos you own?

 

[paralazarguer]

The drivers that you're talking about are explicitly stated to only be used with the FX series. Just us the WHQL drivers like you're supposed to and you won't have problems.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: paralazarguer
The drivers that you're talking about are explicitly stated to only be used with the FX series. Just us the WHQL drivers like you're supposed to and you won't have problems.

So, the FX series will have this "issue"?

 

[Mavrick007]

Does this only happen when you try to output PowerDVD to the TV?
How about if you want to watch the movie on your monitor? It shouldn't have a problem then.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Or perhaps all FX cards will use "approved" TV chips, and the disclaimer is only there because people are bound to use 41.09 on older boards that the manufacturers weren't told to use a particular chip on. Besides, aren't all GFFX boards going to be made by nvidia anyway and just rebranded? Or only the Ultras?

 

[glugglug]

41.09 is a WHQL candidate.

And they already have a Hammer version up!

<sarcastic cynicism>Doesn't this Macrovision BS just make you more eager for Palladium?</sarcastic cynicism>

 

[Mooncalf]

The drivers that you're talking about are explicitly stated to only be used with the FX series. Just us the WHQL drivers like you're supposed to and you won't have problems.

That I didn't know. The 41.09 are the latest official drivers on nvidia's site and have been there since what Decemeber? I just put this computer together and downloaded and used the latest official drivers for my parts.

Does this only happen when you try to output PowerDVD to the TV?
How about if you want to watch the movie on your monitor? It shouldn't have a problem then.

I can not watch a dvd, period. The drivers have the tv out function disabled by default, my tv out is not in use, and yet the drivers dis-allow me to watch a dvd just because the tv encoder chip on my Geforce 3 Ti200 does not meet Macrovision requirements. This means I can not watch a dvd on my computer when I bought the dvdrom, the video card, the dvd software, and the dvds unless I do one of three things. I can revert to older drivers and never upgrade them for the length I have this video card that contains a non-macrovision approved tv encoder chip, I can buy a different dvd software program as conveniently nvidia's NVDVD doesn't appear to have this problem, or I can choose to use drivers from 41.09 or future versions and not be able to watch dvds as long as I have this video card.

I say I purchased all of those parts as well as the software and dvds and that it is illegal for them to disable my ability to watch dvds at all just because my video card (again a VisionTek Geforce 3 Ti200, not exactly obscure) does not contain a macrovision approved tv encoder chip. The tv out is disabled and not being used yet the drivers still do not allow me to play dvds unless I switch to a different dvd program (I own PowerDVD but have heard WinDVD and NVDVD are not affected by this). It is a driver issue implemented by nvidia by choice to meet macrovision requirements as of 41.09 and later.

Something doesn't smell right to me when they can disable my ability to watch movies I purchased in order to protect against people using a non-macrovision tv out to a tv. You tell me, if you were going to steal a dvd movie would you use a computer or a television (unless there is a huge market for vhs copies of dvd movies.. ahh, doesn't that just make them vhs movies?).

Edit: Why can't they just make it so I can't watch dvds if I have the tv out hooked up to a vcr? Basically in order to prevent people from committing a crime they are making it so legal users can't even use the product. Like going into a store and automatically arresting everyone because that is the only way you can prevent those who might actually steal.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
What "Macrovision requirements"? Existing DVD players have to still be able to play the discs, which means the discs haven't changed. Did Macrovision put some pressure on nvidia to modify their software? What possible issue could different TV encoders cause so that Macrovision doesn't consider them "safe"? Do the "safe" ones output the video differently to deter copying? Does that mean they output a lower quality video, meaning Macrovision has now gotten nvidia to actually cause reduced performance and quality of devices and videos you own?

The tv out chipset on my video card is not macrovision approved. To what my research trying to get mine to work I believe that means that it doesn't contain macrovision copy protection so if I chose to and hooked up the tv out to a vcr I could make a vhs quality copy without the usual macrovision protection (why I would want to make a dvd into a vhs when I own the dvd is beyond me).

Since my tv out can do that and they don't want it to be able to the drivers make it so I can't even have the ability to watch dvds period. That is the only way they can guarantee that I won't commit a crime, disable my complete ability to even watch dvds so therefore I won't even have the option to hook up the tv out to a vcr. Basically they have two choices, let me watch the dvds on equipment that I bought with software I bought and open up the possibility that one could then enable the tv out, hook it up to a vcr, and make a vhs copy or disable everything.

The "safe" ones have macrovison copy protection which means even if one wanted to use the tv out and hook it up to a vcr that the copy protection would make it so you couldn't make a copy. But then again nvidia's 41.09 and above drivers seem to work fine on the "unsafe" ones as long as they are not named PowerDVD so the whole nvidia line saying the institutued this function to meet macrovision standards doesn't sound right.

 

[paralazarguer]

So, the FX series will have this "issue"?

No because it doesn't happen on the FX. Only previous GPUs.

I know that when the Graphics Card maker (not nvidia, a CARD maker) first released these drivers before nvidia they had in big bold red stating that they were only to be used with the FX series as they had issues with other GPUs. Among these are effects not being rendered in game 1 of 3dmark2003 and DVD playback. Go back to the latest WHQL drivers which you can get through windows update.

 

[Lord Evermore]

I still don't understand how a Macrovision approved TV chip is going to stop you making a video tape copy (or a digital copy by sending the TV signal to a TV card on another machine). A TV signal is a TV signal. Although I never did figure out how they did other "copy protection" for VHS or DVD anyway.

 

[Whizzy]

Try this url:

DVDIDLE

I had similair problems... couldn't watch any DVD on my TV in the living room.. this program solved all problems !

 

[Vernor]

My MX 400 has a BT869, so the BT868 has to be pretty ancient.

Anyway, does it also disable TVTool ?

 

[Intelman07]

Those drivers really don't let you. It says you are trying to output to the TV when you really aren't thus not allowing playback. I don't know what the deal is but no DVD's for me till its fixed!

 

[Megatomic]

The simple solution to this problem is to use the latest WHQL detonator, 30.82. Unless you are a 3DMark ho (Det. 4x.xx is only better at running 3DMark) that driver is probably the best NVidia has ever made for the GeForce4 and older.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: SeekingTao

Originally posted by: Czar
I think something is seriously wrong with powerdvd + directx9

I have a Radeon 9700 pro and I can play movies with Powerdvd but I cant use theater mode, could before, when I had an install where I installed powerdvd on directx8 and then later upgraded to directx9.

Why are you using PowerDVD when ATI's software included ATI DVD player? I used it when I had a Radeon 7500 and it was a pretty nice program...

because i think the ati player sucks compared to powerdvd, just my preference

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: SeekingTao

Originally posted by: Czar
I think something is seriously wrong with powerdvd + directx9

I have a Radeon 9700 pro and I can play movies with Powerdvd but I cant use theater mode, could before, when I had an install where I installed powerdvd on directx8 and then later upgraded to directx9.

Why are you using PowerDVD when ATI's software included ATI DVD player? I used it when I had a Radeon 7500 and it was a pretty nice program...

because i think the ati player sucks compared to powerdvd, just my preference

Well, I can understand that I guess. I do like PowerDVD (I'd pick it over the ATI player despite what I said above). But I liked the NVDVD demo about as much as I do PowerDVD and if PowerDVD is going to be a b!tch to use in the future well... It won't be a hard decision for me to make in the future.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: SeekingTao

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: SeekingTao

Originally posted by: Czar
I think something is seriously wrong with powerdvd + directx9

I have a Radeon 9700 pro and I can play movies with Powerdvd but I cant use theater mode, could before, when I had an install where I installed powerdvd on directx8 and then later upgraded to directx9.

Why are you using PowerDVD when ATI's software included ATI DVD player? I used it when I had a Radeon 7500 and it was a pretty nice program...

because i think the ati player sucks compared to powerdvd, just my preference

Well, I can understand that I guess. I do like PowerDVD (I'd pick it over the ATI player despite what I said above). But I liked the NVDVD demo about as much as I do PowerDVD and if PowerDVD is going to be a b!tch to use in the future well... It won't be a hard decision for me to make in the future.

NVDVD doesn't have DTS.

Windows Update doesn't list any alternative drivers for me other than the 2918 for the onboard audio which is installed. Switching back to an older driver is what I guess I have to do. That still means that I will never be able to upgrade my drivers again in the future as nvidia says that all drivers starting with 41.09 will not allow dvd playback on computers that have a non-macrovision tv encoder chip.

I see someone mentioned a tv tool, keep in mind I can't even watch a dvd on my pc, not even talking about using the tv out. Just because my tv out encoder chip is non-macrovision nvidia is disabling me to watch a dvd, period! That is the equivalent to someone making a tv that will not play any copyrighted material if you happen to have an old vcr hooked up to the system that is pre-macrovision or not macrovision approved. Yes, I imagine I will eventually get this working by using old drivers (or NVDVD as nvidia's drivers only seem to disable PowerDVD, this whole situation is absurd) but why is it legal for them to punish me for trying to legally play dvds I own on equipment I own? I am shocked that they can get away with this. I don't have the means or knowledge to bring light to this practice nor know whom to pass along this information as this needs to be addressed ASAP IMHO.

Those drivers really don't let you. It says you are trying to output to the TV when you really aren't thus not allowing playback. I don't know what the deal is but no DVD's for me till its fixed!

Exactly! It is a problem with their drivers yet they state they will not fix them effectively punishing legal users ability to watch dvds on their pc. This is not acceptable practice nor I believe even legal yet no one is holding them responsible. Even when I contact them about it they state it is my problem for having a non-macrovison tv encoder chipset. Except it isn't even enabled, hooked up, nor in use yet their drivers disable dvd playback altogether for PowerDVD but not their own NVDVD under the same exact circumstances!

The simple solution to this problem is to use the latest WHQL detonator, 30.82. Unless you are a 3DMark ho (Det. 4x.xx is only better at running 3DMark) that driver is probably the best NVidia has ever made for the GeForce4 and older.

I guess that is my only solution unless I am willing to spend even more money for a different dvd software program but I don't think it is acceptable for me to be limited to those drivers for as long as I own this video card just because they don't want to fix their drivers to function properly nor will anyone with power/influence hold them responsible.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Mooncalf
NVDVD doesn't have DTS.

That is a problem if you have invested in a DTS system. That is definitely a consideration.

I guess that is my only solution unless I am willing to spend even more money for a different dvd software program but I don't think it is acceptable for me to be limited to those drivers for as long as I own this video card just because they don't want to fix their drivers to function properly nor will anyone with power/influence hold them responsible.

You aren't going to be losing by not using the newest drivers anyways. All the updates since 30.82 have really only benefited 3DMark and the future updates are only going to fix/tweak for the FX. Honestly, I do a comparison benchmark test after each new Det. comes out. On my system, Comanche4 takes a beating when I upgrade, so does UT2003. But 3DMark sure does do better. I am happy to continue using the 30.82 drivers on my GF4 especially with the news you have brought to light.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: SeekingTao

Originally posted by: Mooncalf
NVDVD doesn't have DTS.

That is a problem if you have invested in a DTS system. That is definitely a consideration.

I guess that is my only solution unless I am willing to spend even more money for a different dvd software program but I don't think it is acceptable for me to be limited to those drivers for as long as I own this video card just because they don't want to fix their drivers to function properly nor will anyone with power/influence hold them responsible.

You aren't going to be losing by not using the newest drivers anyways. All the updates since 30.82 have really only benefited 3DMark and the future updates are only going to fix/tweak for the FX. Honestly, I do a comparison benchmark test after each new Det. comes out. On my system, Comanche4 takes a beating when I upgrade, so does UT2003. But 3DMark sure does do better. I am happy to continue using the 30.82 drivers on my GF4 especially with the news you have brought to light.

I greatly appreciate that info, thank you kindly. I finally get a new pc and download the latest drivers only to be told oops we don't allow you to watch dvds on that computer because, well, the only way we can prevent those who might want to make a vhs copy of dvds is to not allow anyone to watch dvds. Knowing that reverting to older drivers and being stuck on them for the length I have this video card (probably atleast another year) was something I thought would have a profound negative affect on the rest of my use. Good to know that atleast for now I will not be negatively affected. Thanks.

All of a sudden I hope ATI offers strong competition in the future so I can have the option to put my money behind someone else.

As for DTS, you don't really need to invest in a DTS system on a pc, just listen to the DTS tracks on the dvds that have them or contain both. You obviously need a receiver capable of DTS if you are using outputting audio to a seperate recoiver but perhaps nvidia will someday disable you from listening to DD/DTS dvds unless you have a DD/DTS certified sound card since NVDVD allows you to record copyrighted audio now (yes, I am bitter).