Nvidia disables *all* dvd playback when non-Macrovision tv chip is present starting with 41.09's and above

[NeilPeart]

Mooncalf,
I have never encountered the issue you are referring to. I have a GeForce 4 Ti4400, DirectX 9 and the 41.09 drivers loaded; I run PowerDVD all the time (through the monitor and through S-Video). Perhaps you haven't downloaded the latest patch for PowerDVD XP (2417)? The only issue I have with PowerDVD is it always says "3D accelerator not detected" when I watch DVDs (even though the 3D accelerator option is selectable). Regardless of the lack of 3D acceleration, the program runs fine and my CPU usage is low enough to allow multitasking while watching DVDs (which is a rare occurrence, as I like to focus my complete attention on the movie). My advice is to try the 30.82 drivers and the latest 2417 patch for PowerDVD XP. Also, if you used Ghost or System Restore before installing DX9, you may want to revert to a DX8 point, as DX9 is not needed now, and probably won't be required for some time (I know I installed it myself, but I made a ghost image of a pre-DX9 point). Good luck.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I didn't even know people used their computers to watch DVD's except for certain situations. I guess I thought that since DVD-Players are installed in so many homes now that anyone who had a computer and visited a web site like anandtech would probably actually have a set-top dvd player and only use their computer's dvd player for back-up viewing (ie someone else is using the set-top) or for looking at special features on the disc. I'm starting to think I'm extremely wrong here

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I didn't even know people used their computers to watch DVD's except for certain situations. I guess I thought that since DVD-Players are installed in so many homes now that anyone who had a computer and visited a web site like anandtech would probably actually have a set-top dvd player and only use their computer's dvd player for back-up viewing (ie someone else is using the set-top) or for looking at special features on the disc. I'm starting to think I'm extremely wrong here

Think college student under massive space constraints. He/she more than likely has barely enough room to set up a computer much less an entertainment system.

 

[NeilPeart]

I was once a space-constrained college student whose only DVD viewing was on my PC. Now I own a nice Denon DVD player, but I still watch the occasional DVD on the PC when the fiance is watching Lifetime or another marathon of Law & Order on TNT (don't get me wrong I love the show; it's simply on all day long). Also, my 19" Mitsubishi Diamondtron looks better than our aging Sony Trinitron (it doesn't even have component video - only S-Video), and my Sennheiser HD-600s-through-Klipsch 2.1s are a formidable opponent to our Denon sound system (though it of course lacks true surround sound). To come back to the sub-topic: I recall many dorm residents who used (and still use) their PCs for all media exposure. Mooncalf: have you loaded the latest PowerDVD Patch and the stable 30.82 driver? This event is testament to Ghost's "create-backup-images before you install crap you may regret, especially if the-application in question lacks a true uninstall function and relies on a proprietary system restore for removal."

 

[AmdInside]

Originally posted by: Mooncalf
I just built a new computer, specs below, installing XP Pro, SP1, 2.03 motherboard drivers, DirectX 9, 41.09 Geforce drivers, and then PowerDVD XP 4 Deluxe and patch. I can't watch any dvds (that are copy protected) as it brings up the error code F4D41436 which means "the tv out port of your display card is not working properly" "This copy protected disc can not be played when the TV out function is enabled."

Attempting to find out exactly what this means and how to correct it Nvidia told me the following

The 41.09 and future drivers have more stringent checks in the driver to comply with the latest Macrovision requirements. If the TV encoder does not support Macrovision, you will get the "Macrovision Distribution Failed" error message or a similar message depending on which DVD software player you are using. The BT868 and Conexant CX25870 TV encoders do not support Macrovision. If your graphics card is equipped with one of these TV encoders, then it will not support DVD playback with our 41.09 drivers and above.

Nvidia sells GPU to leading add-in card manufacturers. We have no control over the TV encoder they put on the graphics card. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause.

That tv encoder is on my VisionTek Geforce3 Ti200 and I believe is/was one of the most popular ones used for those cards so this might affect a lot of people. My tv out is disabled, as it is by default I believe, yet from drivers 41.09 and above I will never be able to watch a dvd on my computer unless I no longer use PowerDVD as conveniently the drivers still work fine with NVDVD

Thank you for your email. NVDVD will work with the 41.09 drivers. Please make sure you have uninstalled PowerDVD before you install the trial version of NVDVD. The trial version of NVDVD will work for a period of 15 days so that you can verify compatibility with your system.

So basically this means that if you have a graphics card that happens to use a tv encoder that doesn't comply with the latest Macrovision requirements that Nvidia drivers will no longer allow you to watch a dvd on your computer unless you don't use PowerDVD (not sure what other dvd software progrrams it affects but they said NVDVD still works with them).

Anyone else bothered by this?

Mooncalf,
Who don't you bug Visiontek about this and get them to replace the card for you. This is a Visiontek problem. They decided to save a couple of bucks by going with the non-Macrovision version (BT868) instead of the one with Macrovision (BT869). Tell them you want a Geforce3 with a tv encoder that supports Macrovision. That is all you should have to do. They do offer lifetime warranty so your card should still be under warranty.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: NeilPeart
Mooncalf,
I have never encountered the issue you are referring to. I have a GeForce 4 Ti4400, DirectX 9 and the 41.09 drivers loaded; I run PowerDVD all the time (through the monitor and through S-Video). Perhaps you haven't downloaded the latest patch for PowerDVD XP (2417)? The only issue I have with PowerDVD is it always says "3D accelerator not detected" when I watch DVDs (even though the 3D accelerator option is selectable). Regardless of the lack of 3D acceleration, the program runs fine and my CPU usage is low enough to allow multitasking while watching DVDs (which is a rare occurrence, as I like to focus my complete attention on the movie). My advice is to try the 30.82 drivers and the latest 2417 patch for PowerDVD XP. Also, if you used Ghost or System Restore before installing DX9, you may want to revert to a DX8 point, as DX9 is not needed now, and probably won't be required for some time (I know I installed it myself, but I made a ghost image of a pre-DX9 point). Good luck.

Your video card I bet has a macrovision approved tv encoder chipset, mine apparently does not. That is why the 41.09 do not disable your ability to watch dvds.

Yes, I tried the 41.09 with and without the latest PowerDVD patch. Also tried version 3 with the same results but this is an nvidia driver issue starting with the 41.09's and above for those that have a video card that contains a non-macrovision approved tv encoder chipset (I would guess the Geforce 3 family and sooner but that is solely my speculation).

I have installed the 40.72 drivers and PowerDVD now works fine. To me the issue still very much remains that nvidia is deliberately disabling the ability to watch dvds on a pc that contains a video card that has a tv encoder chipset that is non-macrovision approved even though it isn't enabled, hooked up, nor in use. I shouldn't have to use 40.72 drivers or earlier for as long as I keep this video card to watch dvds that I legally own using parts and dvd software that I legally own. I believe this needs to be corrected by nvidia though they state they will not do so. They say that starting with the 41.09 and above drivers that the drivers check if it contains a non-macrovision tv encoder chipset and if so it automatically disables that computer from watching dvds with certain dvd software programs, regardless of whether the tv out is disabled, not hooked up, or in use.

Not that whether or not I own a stand alone dvd player is the issue but I don't. My receiver is circa 1990 so would only offer Pro-Logic so I would have to look into buying both a new receiver and dvd player if I chose to do so.

 

[Mooncalf]

Mooncalf,
Who don't you bug Visiontek about this and get them to replace the card for you. This is a Visiontek problem. They decided to save a couple of bucks by going with the non-Macrovision version (BT868) instead of the one with Macrovision (BT869). Tell them you want a Geforce3 with a tv encoder that supports Macrovision. That is all you should have to do. They do offer lifetime warranty so your card should still be under warranty.

They haven't even replied to the question I asked them back when I first had this problem and didn't know what was causing it and wrote VisionTek, Cyberlink, and Nvidia for help. I wouldn't even had thought that they would replace the card as nothing is wrong with it. Not sure I would even want to ask.

 

[NeilPeart]

Mooncalf,
You are correct in stating that you "shouldn't have to use 40.72 drivers or earlier for as long as I keep this video card to watch dvds that I legally own using parts and dvd software that I legally own." Who knows what improvements new drivers may bring, and being unable to use them because of Nvidia's sudden adherence to Macrovision is angering. I am glad you tried to resolve the issue through the tips I gave, but it seems the issue is purely a hardware encoder/driver problem (and an unnecessary one at that). It seems that 40.72s may be your last revision, though I'm confident a resourceful programmer will "augment" the new drivers for the better. By the way, my videocard is also made by Visiontek, though the encoder they used (Conexant CX25871) in the GeForce 4 Ti series may adhere to the "strict standards." It is an unfortunate event, but I'm glad you brought it some deserved attention for the benefit of this forum.

 

[AmdInside]

Originally posted by: Mooncalf


They haven't even replied to the question I asked them back when I first had this problem and didn't know what was causing it and wrote VisionTek, Cyberlink, and Nvidia for help. I wouldn't even had thought that they would replace the card as nothing is wrong with it. Not sure I would even want to ask.

There is nothing wrong with the card? You just made a post about how your card doesn't support Macrovision. I would say that is something wrong. It seems to me that NVIDIA is only enforcing the Macrovision protection they are required to support. If Visiontek didn't make the board with a tv out port that supports Macrovision, then they should exchange your board.

 

[AmdInside]

BTW, I have seen some utilities out there that remove Macrovision checks but they cost like $20.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Understood. I guess it's just been so long since I lived in the dorms that I have forgotten how small they are. You would think that after living there for 3 years I might remember Okay I'll stop this little sub-topic guys. Ignore me

 

[AmdInside]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I didn't even know people used their computers to watch DVD's except for certain situations. I guess I thought that since DVD-Players are installed in so many homes now that anyone who had a computer and visited a web site like anandtech would probably actually have a set-top dvd player and only use their computer's dvd player for back-up viewing (ie someone else is using the set-top) or for looking at special features on the disc. I'm starting to think I'm extremely wrong here

I use my DVD player to watch movies while I am doing work on my computer. I also have a set top DVD player but having it play on my PC is less distracting.

 

[Vernor]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I didn't even know people used their computers to watch DVD's except for certain situations. I guess I thought that since DVD-Players are installed in so many homes now that anyone who had a computer and visited a web site like anandtech would probably actually have a set-top dvd player and only use their computer's dvd player for back-up viewing (ie someone else is using the set-top) or for looking at special features on the disc. I'm starting to think I'm extremely wrong here

There are many advantages to an HTPC over a traditional player.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: AmdInside

Originally posted by: Mooncalf


They haven't even replied to the question I asked them back when I first had this problem and didn't know what was causing it and wrote VisionTek, Cyberlink, and Nvidia for help. I wouldn't even had thought that they would replace the card as nothing is wrong with it. Not sure I would even want to ask.

There is nothing wrong with the card? You just made a post about how your card doesn't support Macrovision. I would say that is something wrong. It seems to me that NVIDIA is only enforcing the Macrovision protection they are required to support. If Visiontek didn't make the board with a tv out port that supports Macrovision, then they should exchange your board.

I guess I could ask them. Not sure how comfortable I would be getting a new card when I believe the problem lies with nvidia. If Nvidia were only enforcing the Macrovision policy shouldn't I be able to watch dvds on the pc as long as the tv out were disabled, not hooked up, and not in use? The drivers disable playback altogether even when those are met. They also stated that this new enforcement only affects certain dvd software programs so shouldn't this new check hold true for all of them?

And if the whole problem is that my tv out doesn't contain Macrovision and therefore I could if I wanted to hook the tv out to a vcr and copy the dvd to vhs, don't vcrs contain Macrovision themselves so as to make this a mute point unless one has a pre-Macrovision vcr and want a vhs copy of a dvd? And if there is a market for vhs copies wouldn't it be cheaper for those people that do that to just buy the cheaper vhs copy and copy that instead of the dvd?

It shouldn't be this difficult and time consuming for the consumer to play dvds legally.

 

[Mooncalf]

NeilPeart (or anyone else that is using PowerDVD XP 4.0)... Is there a refresh rate bug with PowerDVD? I select for 16x9 movies to open using 1024x768x32 at 85hz but it still opens using 60hz. I have my desktop at 800x600x32 at 100hz so I can either manually set it to 85hz everytime or leave it as the same as my desktop (which isn't a big deal but I thought I read when looking into the other problem that anamorphic titles will look better at 1024x768).

 

[CraigRT]

I use the 4109's and I haven't a problem using powerDVD.. my DVD's play great...

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: Yield
I use the 4109's and I haven't a problem using powerDVD.. my DVD's play great...

Yield.. Have you encountered that refresh rate problem I have with PowerDVD? As for yours working without any problems, you more than likely have a video card that isn't affected (ie. doesn't have a tv out or is Macrovision approved).

 

[Mooncalf]

I updated the main post to better reflect current information that I have. I downloaded and installed WinDVD Platinum and NVDVD trials and the 41.09 drivers do not work with any of them (having already tried patched and unpatched versions of PowerDVD 4 and patched PowerDVD 3).

So if your video card contains either of those two tv encoder chipsets then starting with the 41.09's and all future releases Nvidia is disabling all dvd playback, not just tv out, automatically. The only way you will be able to watch dvds on computers that contain those two tv encoder chipsets is to be forever limited to 40.72 drivers or earlier.

Nvidia states they are doing this to comply with Macrovision but I do not believe Macrovision states to disable all playback even when the tv out function is disabled, not hooked up, and not in use. As of now Nvidia states they will not change this which I don't believe is legal, for them to disable those who wish to watch dvds that they legally own even when the tv out function is disabled.



Edit: If my belief that this is not legal and anyone knows whom I may contact to get Nvidia to change this new policy, I would appreciate any ideas on whom to contact.

 

[rbV5]

Edit: If my belief that this is not legal and anyone knows whom I may contact to get Nvidia to change this new policy, I would appreciate any ideas on whom to contact

Why do you keep on insisting that it is Nvidias problem when clearly Visiontek supplied the TV chip and built your board?

 

[T9D]

..

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Edit: If my belief that this is not legal and anyone knows whom I may contact to get Nvidia to change this new policy, I would appreciate any ideas on whom to contact

Why do you keep on insisting that it is Nvidias problem when clearly Visiontek supplied the TV chip and built your board?

Is VisionTek the only company that uses those tv encoder chipsets? Is the fact that a video card contains a non-Macrovision tv encoder chipset supposed to mean you can't watch dvds even when not using tv out?

I am under the impression that more than just VisionTek video cards are affected and that whether or not a card has a non-Macrovision approved tv encoder chipset has nothing to do with dvd playback when not using the tv out function.

I don't believe Macrovision states that if you have a non-Macrovision approved tv encoder chipset that all dvd playback must be disabled, only tv out playback. This seems like something caused by Nvidia's drivers and not the tv encoder chipset as it affects non-tv out dvd playback. The fact that the tv encoder chipset is non-Macrovision is a seperate issue from dvd playback when tv out is disabled.

 

[Mooncalf]

Originally posted by: xerosleep
Big deal!

Just use the older drivers for now. And geez how much longer could you possible have this card for? 6 months? a year at most? That's not that long to use the older driver. And then when you upgrade just say screw nvidia and get an ATI card. Nvidia loses and problem solved.

If a company is disabling a person from legally wacthing dvds then that doesn't seem right to me. Yes I can and will use older drivers for as long as I own the card to work around this issue but that doesn't mean the issue should not be corrected if it is indeed wrong. Just because one can use a work around doesn't necessarily mean you should also ignore it and not seek for them to correct it if it is indeed something that should not be done.

 

[Vernor]

There are much bigger issues with DVDs that aren't right - fair use, zoning...etc'.

But that's reality. Nvidia know they could get slapped with a lawsuit if they don't comply.

 

[Snooper]

rvBS,

I would say because NVIDIA is the company that is changing the drivers so it will disable his ability to USE that hardware he paid for.

Personally, I think the folks affected by this should start a class action suit against NVIDIA for damages (aka: the software and hardware they bought and paid for is no longer working). Companies are bending over backwards to support RIAA and such because they are afraid of being sued. Let them know that if they piss off a million of their customers, they better be afraid also.

Sigh. This whole thing is just getting rediculous. I wonder if we could start up a class action suit against these groups for rackateering?

 

[rbV5]

The fact that the tv encoder chipset is non-Macrovision is a seperate issue from dvd playback when tv out is disabled

Not necissarily. Perhaps the design of the card itself contributes to the problem. GF3 cards are single head/ single DAC cards, enabling VGA output, disables TV output and vice versa. Maybe the output of the card is transparent to the software, since it can't find a supported TV chip it simply won't play. It doesn't know, nor care whether you are watching it via your monitor, or outputting to your TV...it simply won't play macrovision protected material.