Nvidia cuts out reviewers for the GTS250

[chizow]

Looks like Fud is reporting the GTS 250 is more than just a rebadge of the 9800GTX+ as is, they're saying its also getting a clock bump. That may be what Zap was hinting at earlier.

In other news, ATI rebadges the RV770 for their new high-end zomggzziiieis get out teh pitch forks!!11elven!1!! :roll:

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: chizow
In other news, ATI rebadges the RV770 for their new high-end zomggzziiieis get out teh pitch forks!!11elven!1!! :roll:

Say what you want, but the 4890 isn't jump classes. It's still a 4800 series card, unlike the 9800 that became the GTS200 series.

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: chizow
Looks like Fud is reporting the GTS 250 is more than just a rebadge of the 9800GTX+ as is, they're saying its also getting a clock bump. That may be what Zap was hinting at earlier.

In other news, ATI rebadges the RV770 for their new high-end zomggzziiieis get out teh pitch forks!!11elven!1!! :roll:

You can't rebadge a product that hasn't been released yet. A rebadge would be calling a 3xxx series card a 4xxx series card.

 

[chizow]

LOOOOOL. Amazing watching certain folks trying to make sense of completely arbitrary product designations based on a rebadge of old tech. :laugh:

 

[Cookie Monster]

Think the GTS250 might have a slight bump up in clocks (from stock GTX+ speeds) like rumors suggest. While GTS240 is not a 9800GT rebadged, but a 9800GTX rebadged (a 400MHZ boost in memory clocks alone). Although the rebranding of the G92 chip has been endless, nVIDIA just dont need a new chip to replace the current G92 since it fills in the gap just fine. The only difference in technology would be its CUDA compability/DP compared to the GT200 cores.

However chizow, your comments about RV770 is really a flame bait so Id watch it. Everyone knows that G92 has had about 3 different brandings (8800GT/GTS --> 9800 series --> now GTS series).

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
However chizow, your comments about RV770 is really a flame bait so Id watch it. Everyone knows that G92 has had about 3 different brandings (8800GT/GTS --> 9800 series --> now GTS series).

Flame bait? Hardly, it just clearly illustrates the hypocrisy and bias prevalent on these forums. I just didn't think news of RV770's rebrand was worthy of its own thread. I'd post in the RV770/ATI rebranding thread but of course it doesn't exist......

 

[Cookie Monster]

I dont think you understand the difference. The launch of a faster RV770 is more inline with something like the launch of the 8800Ultra. What we have here with the GTS series is that nVIDIA has gotten away with a chip that has been used for 3 different generations. You see the difference?

Your claims would make sense if AMD decides to release higher clocked RV770 and brand them as HD5800 series.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
It really is just a label though, this seems like standard marketing streamlining the presentation of their offerings.

Coca Cola company just relabeled Coke Classic as simply "Coke", not going to see me or anybody including Pepsi drinkers running around decrying the evils of Coca Cola's marketing dept manipulating naive would-be cola drinkers.

That's a good point. I guess video cards elicit a more visceral response than which brand of "pop" you drink. (Now that I've lived in the midwest several years, I may as well start calling soda "pop" like everyone else here )

Originally posted by: chizow
The real question is why does Kyle care about the GTS 250?

That's a damn good question. IDK, but it makes for page hits.

Originally posted by: chizow
Looks like Fud is reporting the GTS 250 is more than just a rebadge of the 9800GTX+ as is, they're saying its also getting a clock bump. That may be what Zap was hinting at earlier.

Mmmm, not quite. Ask me again after embargo lifts.

 

[Cookie Monster]

So is there anything interesting about the GTS series zap?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I dont think you understand the difference. The launch of a faster RV770 is more inline with something like the launch of the 8800Ultra.

No its not, the 8800 Ultra kept the 8800 designation. The RV770 rebranding would make more sense if they called it a 4875 or 4880 or 4892. Again none of that is supposed to make any sense because the numbers and designations are completely arbitrary based on whatever I felt makes sense, lol.

What we have here with the GTS series is that nVIDIA has gotten away with a chip that has been used for 3 different generations. You see the difference?

Actually each generation has had as much or more difference than the simple clockspeed bump seen with RV770 to RV790. 8800 to 9800 was accompanied by a die shrink to 55nm along with clock speed bumps and 9800 to GTS 200 series also looks to be accompanied by a clockspeed bump. At the end of the day, all that matters is the actual performance is in-line with relative performance compared to high end GTX 200 series and lower end GTS 100 series parts.

Your claims would make sense if AMD decides to release higher clocked RV770 and brand them as HD5800 series.

LOL, based on what? Your own subjective/arbitrary criteria for what you naming conventions make sense? Good luck with that. You won't find hard and fast consistency with either camp and that's a fact.

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
However chizow, your comments about RV770 is really a flame bait so Id watch it. Everyone knows that G92 has had about 3 different brandings (8800GT/GTS --> 9800 series --> now GTS series).

Flame bait? Hardly, it just clearly illustrates the hypocrisy and bias prevalent on these forums. I just didn't think news of RV770's rebrand was worthy of its own thread. I'd post in the RV770/ATI rebranding thread but of course it doesn't exist......

The only bias showing is your own. There is no ATi rebrand. So what if they incremented the chip designation? What do you see in that move?

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I dont think you understand the difference. The launch of a faster RV770 is more inline with something like the launch of the 8800Ultra. What we have here with the GTS series is that nVIDIA has gotten away with a chip that has been used for 3 different generations. You see the difference?

Your claims would make sense if AMD decides to release higher clocked RV770 and brand them as HD5800 series.

It seems that many people here are personally offended that Nvidia has re-branded the 8800 series to 9800 and now GTS250. Who cares if Nvidia has released a similar chip for the past few years? People seem to be very happy with it and it generally does a great job at playing all the recent games for a good price point. First and foremost, Nvidia is a company to make money and this is a great way to recoup R&D costs. Why blame them for putting out such a good GPU a few years back, why not cry about how crappy AMD/ATI was doing during the same time instead? Even with the great 4xxx series, the 8800/9800 series is still very competitive.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I dont think you understand the difference. The launch of a faster RV770 is more inline with something like the launch of the 8800Ultra. What we have here with the GTS series is that nVIDIA has gotten away with a chip that has been used for 3 different generations. You see the difference?

Your claims would make sense if AMD decides to release higher clocked RV770 and brand them as HD5800 series.

It seems that many people here are personally offended that Nvidia has re-branded the 8800 series to 9800 and now GTS250. Who cares if Nvidia has released a similar chip for the past few years? People seem to be very happy with it and it generally does a great job at playing all the recent games for a good price point. First and foremost, Nvidia is a company to make money and this is a great way to recoup R&D costs. Why blame them for putting out such a good GPU a few years back, why not cry about how crappy AMD/ATI was doing during the same time instead? Even with the great 4xxx series, the 8800/9800 series is still very competitive.

It's offensive because ignorant people can easily be tricked by it. My friend almost "upgraded" his 8800 Ultra to a 9800GTX+ just because of the name. While I do think it's hilarious that people will buy things they know absolutely nothing about, it upsets me when the victims of such a scam are people I know.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
It seems that many people here are personally offended that Nvidia has re-branded the 8800 series to 9800 and now GTS250. Who cares if Nvidia has released a similar chip for the past few years? People seem to be very happy with it and it generally does a great job at playing all the recent games for a good price point. First and foremost, Nvidia is a company to make money and this is a great way to recoup R&D costs. Why blame them for putting out such a good GPU a few years back, why not cry about how crappy AMD/ATI was doing during the same time instead? Even with the great 4xxx series, the 8800/9800 series is still very competitive.

I can agree that they've released one impressive GPU in the form of G80, but its not good for us consumers when the company decides to take advantage of the situation and try to continuously put rehashes of the G8x architecture down our throats for the past 3 years. This generally means performance levels have remained relatively static. I guess price is the only thing thats seen some change, bringing performance to mainstream gamers but at the end of the day, this is getting old real fast.

 

[josh6079]

The ink and stickers cost less than a new architecture so at least in the short term they'd make more money, benefiting shareholders.

Yeah, I know it works. I know it makes more money than takes, or is "supposed" to.

It's just that nVidia's pockets don't always directly correlate to better gaming.

For example, I'm pretty sure anyone who had a 3800 series GPU wasn't too happy when the DX10.1 support was pulled from Assassin's Creed just because nVidia wasn't supporting that level of API.

It helped keep attention on their product, taking away around 20% of a performance boost with AA on the 3800s, but it was at the cost of advancing API and better gaming.

Looks like Fud is reporting the GTS 250 is more than just a rebadge of the 9800GTX+ as is, they're saying its also getting a clock bump. That may be what Zap was hinting at earlier.

If a clock bump is included, I can see the need for some kind of different name scheme. But as Zap mentioned, that isn't quite it.

Even if there is a clock bump, it's not the same architecture of a GT 200 series, making it more a marketing ploy than spec. differentiation.

In other news, ATI rebadges the RV770 for their new high-end zomggzziiieis get out teh pitch forks!!11elven!1!!

The "4890" or whatever coming out probably isn't going to designate itself a class higher than what it is. (i.e., HD 5000 anything). But, who knows. If they do you can do a dance I guess.

My friend almost "upgraded" his 8800 Ultra to a 9800GTX+ just because of the name.

I can relate since I recently inquired as to which one was better in a separate thread.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
While I do think it's hilarious that people will buy things they know absolutely nothing about, it upsets me when the victims of such a scam are people I know.

If you think about it, this happens in the auto and cell phone markets all the time. My mother in-law upgraded (traded-in) her 3yr old car for a brand new one of the same model, only later did she realize it was a downgrade because the new model didn't have all the features as standard equipped that she had got standard on her 3yr old car.

Sure she should have known this, who buys a $30k car without making sure it has the options they need (let alone asking themselves the question do they really need to replace their 3yr old car) but the salesmen gave her "a sweet trade-in deal" she couldn't refuse.

Do you blame the auto company for selling new model cars that are basically the same as last years model except the label says 2009 instead of 2008? Or do you blame the fact that it is the consumer who chooses to part with their money to buy the latest gizmo/car/cellphone they have convinced themselves they need.

In my mother in-law's case sure I could blame the sleezy car salesmen for taking advantage of her, but the truth of the matter is that he didn't go to her house and convince her she needed to be shopping for a new car. She showed up at his place of work and basically begged them to talk her into (justify her wants) needing a new car.

Why was your friend looking to upgrade to a 9800GTX+? Did he really need an upgrade, or he wanted to need an upgrade so was looking for that quick impulse buy fix? If you impulse shop and don't do your homework its not exactly getting scammed. if I eat at McDonalds 5 times a day for 6 years and gain 400lbs should I blame McDonalds for taking advantage of the fact I like to eat fat?

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
While I do think it's hilarious that people will buy things they know absolutely nothing about, it upsets me when the victims of such a scam are people I know.

If you think about it, this happens in the auto and cell phone markets all the time. My mother in-law upgraded (traded-in) her 3yr old car for a brand new one of the same model, only later did she realize it was a downgrade because the new model didn't have all the features as standard equipped that she had got standard on her 3yr old car.

Sure she should have known this, who buys a $30k car without making sure it has the options they need (let alone asking themselves the question do they really need to replace their 3yr old car) but the salesmen gave her "a sweet trade-in deal" she couldn't refuse.

Do you blame the auto company for selling new model cars that are basically the same as last years model except the label says 2009 instead of 2008? Or do you blame the fact that it is the consumer who chooses to part with their money to buy the latest gizmo/car/cellphone they have convinced themselves they need.

In my mother in-law's case sure I could blame the sleezy car salesmen for taking advantage of her, but the truth of the matter is that he didn't go to her house and convince her she needed to be shopping for a new car. She showed up at his place of work and basically begged them to talk her into (justify her wants) needing a new car.

Cars are a bit of a crappy analogy though.

You dont buy a new one in the expectation its 50% faster than last years model

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
Why was your friend looking to upgrade to a 9800GTX+? Did he really need an upgrade, or he wanted to need an upgrade so was looking for that quick impulse buy fix? If you impulse shop and don't do your homework its not exactly getting scammed. if I eat at McDonalds 5 times a day for 6 years and gain 400lbs should I blame McDonalds for taking advantage of the fact I like to eat fat?

He was having a few lag issues with Fallout 3.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
So is there anything interesting about the GTS series zap?

You'll have to wait and see because I'm under NDA.

[shhh]Just don't hold your breath.[/shhh] I think there's still another week or two for the embargo. You'd expire in minutes.

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
It's offensive because ignorant people can easily be tricked by it. My friend almost "upgraded" his 8800 Ultra to a 9800GTX+ just because of the name. While I do think it's hilarious that people will buy things they know absolutely nothing about, it upsets me when the victims of such a scam are people I know.

It would have been more of a side-grade mostly. Some stuff would run slower while others faster. The core and shaders are definately faster. There are now 1GB versions of the 9800 GTX+. What is lacking though is memory bandwidth. Still, I believe in overall performance the 9800 GTX+ to be at least as good.

I guess the real benefit to your buddy would be that his power consumption and heat output would go down quite a bit.

Benenfits to people who are upgrading from something definately slower (8600 GTS?) would be the performance of a card that cost $700 the last time they upgraded for about 1/4 the price, without needing a new power supply.

 

[Liberator21]

Originally posted by: Jacen
...You want to a be pioneer then tell Nvidia the buck stops here and you will do reviews how you want them or you will do them via another means. Your readership will respect you more that way.

I guess you've never heard of Fudzilla? They pretty much did what your describing but "respect" and "readership" aren't two words that are credible when describing that site.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Nvidia cuts out reviewers for the GTS250

Not only that, but the flat-out dishonesty is that Nvidia gave its board partners 'special' boards to send to reviewers. They are not allowed to give out their own vanilla cards, they MUST use the special set supplied by Nvidia.

Why is this dishonest? Want to bet that those boards have cherry-picked chips and RAM that clocks to the moon? That they will do everything better than any card you will ever be able to buy? Basically, Nvidia supplied ringers to the press that are not representative of what you can buy, and forced OEMs to give them to review sites without telling them. The technical term is 'mushrooming', feed them [scatological reference deleted] and keep them in the dark.

Remember now, this is the same 55nm G92 that you have been able to buy for six months or more, there is NO difference between that and the 9800GTX+. Nvidia has to show a difference to avoid their new hare-brained branding/stupid fanboi-fleecing scheme from tanking, so they are stacking the reviews.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inq...-cuts-reviewers-gts250

Now I did see Kyle's rant about this the other day and didn't think anything further about it. But this tidbit that groo is going on about is intriguing. I am MOST interested in what Anand has to say about this when/if he gets a review sample. He didn't hold back on AMD over the Lake Tahoe thing, so if there is any credibility to groo's article I'd expect the AT review to ooze with sarcasm and nuggets of vitriol.

can we have confirmation of this from a REAL media news? theinq is as reliable as this guy in the streetcorner who wears a tinfoil hat to protect from alien brainwave control and claims to be jesus...

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I dont think you understand the difference. The launch of a faster RV770 is more inline with something like the launch of the 8800Ultra. What we have here with the GTS series is that nVIDIA has gotten away with a chip that has been used for 3 different generations. You see the difference?

Your claims would make sense if AMD decides to release higher clocked RV770 and brand them as HD5800 series.

It seems that many people here are personally offended that Nvidia has re-branded the 8800 series to 9800 and now GTS250. Who cares if Nvidia has released a similar chip for the past few years? People seem to be very happy with it and it generally does a great job at playing all the recent games for a good price point. First and foremost, Nvidia is a company to make money and this is a great way to recoup R&D costs. Why blame them for putting out such a good GPU a few years back, why not cry about how crappy AMD/ATI was doing during the same time instead? Even with the great 4xxx series, the 8800/9800 series is still very competitive.

It's offensive because ignorant people can easily be tricked by it. My friend almost "upgraded" his 8800 Ultra to a 9800GTX+ just because of the name. While I do think it's hilarious that people will buy things they know absolutely nothing about, it upsets me when the victims of such a scam are people I know.

its hard to admit, but sometimes even people we know or love are downright stupid... I have come to accept that about many of my family members... I can hardly fault nvidia for it though, because they have a perfectly good chip that works well and that people will REFUSE to buy because it has a lower number... despite it being good.
It is not like there is a feature difference, just a slight speed difference, but to some the name is everything. I see it less as nividia trying to rip people off and more like appeasing the idiot ignorant masses.

Besides which, this isn't even a rebrand, the 9800GTX+ is very different in design from the ultra, achiving the same speed at a SIGNIFICANTLY lower price point... upgrading from a 700$ card to an under 200$ card from only ONE generation (and... what. a year and a half?) above is never a good idea. Heck by all means it should be a downgrade, but in this case it is actually a slight (insignificant) upgrade.

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
I'd trust a site more that was late because they wanted to do a review properly than one that agreed with company marketing on how to make the product look good.

Its not so much reviewing properly or not, its more like HardOCP, or any other site accepting review samples and agreeing to do a review, then not doing it. That's very different than doing a review and giving your opinion based on whether or not its good or it sucks.

I'm sure the references in these cases were with regard to HardOCP tacitly agreeing to review CUDA/PhysX and then sitting on their hands and doing nothing. Wouldn't be a surprise at all given Kyle's recent reaction when Nvidia asked him to review 3D Vision. At least in that case though he outright declined instead of saying he'd review it, only to publish nothing.

Yes it is.

Its up to the reviewer to write the review, the company should have no say in what goes into it. If they want an advert they can pay for one like everyone else.

I agree with you 100%

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2

Originally posted by: WelshBloke

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: WelshBloke
I'd trust a site more that was late because they wanted to do a review properly than one that agreed with company marketing on how to make the product look good.

Its not so much reviewing properly or not, its more like HardOCP, or any other site accepting review samples and agreeing to do a review, then not doing it. That's very different than doing a review and giving your opinion based on whether or not its good or it sucks.

I'm sure the references in these cases were with regard to HardOCP tacitly agreeing to review CUDA/PhysX and then sitting on their hands and doing nothing. Wouldn't be a surprise at all given Kyle's recent reaction when Nvidia asked him to review 3D Vision. At least in that case though he outright declined instead of saying he'd review it, only to publish nothing.

Yes it is.

Its up to the reviewer to write the review, the company should have no say in what goes into it. If they want an advert they can pay for one like everyone else.

I agree with you 100%

Exactly. Does Nvidia think that just because they aren't shipping a GTS250 to HardOCP that it won't ever be reviewed there? Kyle can pick one up the day they hit the streets and have a review up the next day. And I'm pretty sure it'll be even less flattering than if Nvidia would have just shipped him one like they did for the other large sites.

Not a very bright idea, Nvidia.

 

[nyker96]

Originally posted by: sandorski
I'd far prefer a Review site that went out(Internet or B&M), grabbed the card they wanted to review and paid for it at a counter. Just like the rest of us.

I have to agree with sandorski. I think sites should move away from using ES as review basis. they are hand picked parts that we can never hope to buy at retail. if sites want, they can give a preview based on ES samples from manufacture then buy a retail card and do a full review when it comes out.

the rebranding of 8800gt parts are getting ridiculous. they are down right deceiving consumers with that scheme. trying to sell something old with a new name to boost sales. considering they already done it once before, NV's should be ashamed of themselves.