Nvidia confident that GT300 wins over 5870

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bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Originally posted by: Crisium
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I can't believe you guys would dare to criticize charlie. Every round he is right about SOMETHING

Throw enough shit on the wall and something will stick.

especially when it's that nasty gooey shit that charlie likes to play with.

edit: @ happymedium, iirc, the gtx 295 uses some characteristics of gtx 260 and some of gtx 280. It is certainly very CLOSE to 280, but in the highly intense graphical situations that would require this card (crysis on very high, 25x16 with many games) wouldn't 2xgtx280 perform better? god, I shudder to do this, but at someone thinks that gtx 280 is faster than gtx 275: http://www.tomshardware.com/re...phics-card,2404-7.html

The 280 is faster than the 275, but the 275 makes up some ground by having a higher clock speed because it is shrunk.

The 285 is just a shrunken 280.

The 275 is a cut-down 280, if you notice the RAM amounts.

295 = 2X275

Say what you want about theory, but the GTX 275 is equal to, if not better than the GTX 280 most of the time. Tom's own tests prove this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/ch...compare,1451.html?prod[2669]=on&prod[2665]=on

God knows why their Hierarchy Chart lies. I guess he didn't want to give the 4890/GTX 275 their own spot, but wanted to say that the GTX 280 was faster than the 260. But the 275 is faster than the 260 as well but is in the same spot... so basically they just stopped caring and decided no one would buy a GTX 280 at this point anyway since it's discontinued so they might as well put it higher because crack makes them feel so good.

no, as I said before the 275 is slower than the 280 in cases where it matters. shit, I have a 260 core 216 with a factory oc to 655 core/1050mem, so I could try to delude myself into thinking that I have a 280+ card. However, the 448 bit/896 mb starts to matter at higher res and in more demanding situations, making the 280 a more powerful card in situations where it's likely to be an issue. For example, would you rather get 105 fps at 16x10 and 26 fps in 25x16 or 100fps at 16x10 and 31 fps in 25x16? If you're gaming at 16x10 you're not looking at a 280 anyway unless your wallet is bigger than your common sense. That extra 5 fps at very high res is what the gtx 280 is all about. That's why they have it rated above the 4890, too, because again it is generally better at the very high end of the market that it was designed to dominate. I don't normally trust tom's any further than I can throw them, but they are typically spot-on with gpu hierarchy chart.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Originally posted by: videogames101
Originally posted by: SolMiester
Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
If nv prices it at $600 again and it's only a little faster than the $300 ATI card that won't matter :)

*Awaits Cult of Saint Charlie followers to make baseless claims against this rumor*
Since this rumor is itself baseless (unconfirmed anonymous sources without a shred of evidence) any comments against it are equally well supported.

It would be nice to see nvidia competing again after a year and a half in second place in price/performance. Competition keeps both vendors honest, and my last 5 cards before the 4870 were all nvidia.

There wasnt competition? :confused:

there was, just that ATI won it in the price/performance category. and i have a feeling nvidia is going to lose again for the next 1.5 years

Well, there is price\performance....and then there is just....performance..and to the best of my knowledge, that has been predominately of late......nvidia?!

You can't ignore price, no matter how much you want to. If I can get two 4870s for cheaper than a GTX 295, who really has the performance crown? How many people spend more than $400 on video cards?

Why not drop the extra cash for the gtx295 and get the fastest card avalable? If you can afford the 400$ 4870x2, you should be able to afford the 500$ gtx295. Is the gtx295 20% faster then the 4870x2? Mabe that's why it's 20% more money?
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Originally posted by: Crisium
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I can't believe you guys would dare to criticize charlie. Every round he is right about SOMETHING

Throw enough shit on the wall and something will stick.

especially when it's that nasty gooey shit that charlie likes to play with.

edit: @ happymedium, iirc, the gtx 295 uses some characteristics of gtx 260 and some of gtx 280. It is certainly very CLOSE to 280, but in the highly intense graphical situations that would require this card (crysis on very high, 25x16 with many games) wouldn't 2xgtx280 perform better? god, I shudder to do this, but at someone thinks that gtx 280 is faster than gtx 275: http://www.tomshardware.com/re...phics-card,2404-7.html

The 280 is faster than the 275, but the 275 makes up some ground by having a higher clock speed because it is shrunk.

The 285 is just a shrunken 280.

The 275 is a cut-down 280, if you notice the RAM amounts.

295 = 2X275

Say what you want about theory, but the GTX 275 is equal to, if not better than the GTX 280 most of the time. Tom's own tests prove this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/ch...compare,1451.html?prod[2669]=on?[2665]=on

God knows why their Hierarchy Chart lies. I guess he didn't want to give the 4890/GTX 275 their own spot, but wanted to say that the GTX 280 was faster than the 260. But the 275 is faster than the 260 as well but is in the same spot... so basically they just stopped caring and decided no one would buy a GTX 280 at this point anyway since it's discontinued so they might as well put it higher because crack makes them feel so good.

no, as I said before the 275 is slower than the 280 in cases where it matters. shit, I have a 260 core 216 with a factory oc to 655 core/1050mem, so I could try to delude myself into thinking that I have a 280+ card. However, the 448 bit/896 mb starts to matter at higher res and in more demanding situations, making the 280 a more powerful card in situations where it's likely to be an issue. For example, would you rather get 105 fps at 16x10 and 26 fps in 25x16 or 100fps at 16x10 and 31 fps in 25x16? If you're gaming at 16x10 you're not looking at a 280 anyway unless your wallet is bigger than your common sense. That extra 5 fps at very high res is what the gtx 280 is all about. That's why they have it rated above the 4890, too, because again it is generally better at the very high end of the market that it was designed to dominate. I don't normally trust tom's any further than I can throw them, but they are typically spot-on with gpu hierarchy chart.

As per the Anand review ,the gtx275 was = the 4890 at the ultrahigh resolutions. For some unknown reason the 275 does very well at these resolutions.

Heres a quote from the article...........

"The 4890, basically a tweaked and overclocked 4870, does improve performance over the 4870 1GB and puts up good competition for the GTX 275. On a pure performance level the 4890 and GTX 275 trade blows at different resolutions. The 4890 tends to look better at lower resolutions while the GTX 275 is more competitive at high resolutions. At 1680 x 1050 and 1920 x 1200 the 4890 is nearly undefeated. At 2560 x 1600, it seems to be pretty much a wash between the two cards."

For the sake of argument lets just say the gtx280 is 1% faster then the 275 overall. Happy? jeeez :roll:
 

videogames101

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2005
6,783
27
91
Originally posted by: happy medium
Originally posted by: videogames101
Originally posted by: SolMiester
Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
If nv prices it at $600 again and it's only a little faster than the $300 ATI card that won't matter :)

*Awaits Cult of Saint Charlie followers to make baseless claims against this rumor*
Since this rumor is itself baseless (unconfirmed anonymous sources without a shred of evidence) any comments against it are equally well supported.

It would be nice to see nvidia competing again after a year and a half in second place in price/performance. Competition keeps both vendors honest, and my last 5 cards before the 4870 were all nvidia.

There wasnt competition? :confused:

there was, just that ATI won it in the price/performance category. and i have a feeling nvidia is going to lose again for the next 1.5 years

Well, there is price\performance....and then there is just....performance..and to the best of my knowledge, that has been predominately of late......nvidia?!

You can't ignore price, no matter how much you want to. If I can get two 4870s for cheaper than a GTX 295, who really has the performance crown? How many people spend more than $400 on video cards?

Why not drop the extra cash for the gtx295 and get the fastest card avalable? If you can afford the 400$ 4870x2, you should be able to afford the 500$ gtx295. Is the gtx295 20% faster then the 4870x2? Mabe that's why it's 20% more money?

I said 2xHD4870, not 4870x2
 

faxon

Platinum Member
May 23, 2008
2,109
1
81
Yea man two HD4870 costs $300 for a vapor x with 1gb VRAM, where as the 4870x2 costs $345ish average depending on where you look
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,395
277
136
Originally posted by: faxon
Yea man two HD4870 costs $300 for a vapor x with 1gb VRAM, where as the 4870x2 costs $345ish average depending on where you look

The X2 did have some features that are not fully implemented. I have no idea why AMD would implement the bridging (I think that is it) on the card and not use it.
 

formulav8

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2000
7,004
523
126
Originally posted by: Crisium

God knows why their Hierarchy Chart lies. I guess he didn't want to give the 4890/GTX 275 their own spot, but wanted to say that the GTX 280 was faster than the 260. But the 275 is faster than the 260 as well but is in the same spot... so basically they just stopped caring and decided no one would buy a GTX 280 at this point anyway since it's discontinued so they might as well put it higher because crack makes them feel so good.

Yuk :D Yuk Yuk :laugh:
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
56
91
Originally posted by: videogames101
Originally posted by: happy medium
Originally posted by: videogames101
Originally posted by: SolMiester
Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
If nv prices it at $600 again and it's only a little faster than the $300 ATI card that won't matter :)

*Awaits Cult of Saint Charlie followers to make baseless claims against this rumor*
Since this rumor is itself baseless (unconfirmed anonymous sources without a shred of evidence) any comments against it are equally well supported.

It would be nice to see nvidia competing again after a year and a half in second place in price/performance. Competition keeps both vendors honest, and my last 5 cards before the 4870 were all nvidia.

There wasnt competition? :confused:

there was, just that ATI won it in the price/performance category. and i have a feeling nvidia is going to lose again for the next 1.5 years

Well, there is price\performance....and then there is just....performance..and to the best of my knowledge, that has been predominately of late......nvidia?!

You can't ignore price, no matter how much you want to. If I can get two 4870s for cheaper than a GTX 295, who really has the performance crown? How many people spend more than $400 on video cards?

Why not drop the extra cash for the gtx295 and get the fastest card avalable? If you can afford the 400$ 4870x2, you should be able to afford the 500$ gtx295. Is the gtx295 20% faster then the 4870x2? Mabe that's why it's 20% more money?

I said 2xHD4870, not 4870x2

Well, you can also purchase 2xGTX260 216's for 300.00. Just a matter of how someone wants to go. Lots of options.
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
615
136
Going off Newegg... SLI 260 at best is $300 after rebate. Best for 4870 CF without rebate is $290, or another option is $260 after rebate. I see no room for misinterpretation of the facts: Radeon 4870 Crossfire is a cheaper option than SLI GTX 260. That's one thing Tom does right in most of their recommendations. Just because ATi and Nvidia compete on performance doesn't mean they compete on price.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
56
91
Originally posted by: Crisium
Going off Newegg... SLI 260 at best is $300 after rebate. Best for 4870 CF without rebate is $290, or another option is $260 after rebate. I see no room for misinterpretation of the facts: Radeon 4870 Crossfire is a cheaper option than SLI GTX 260. That's one thing Tom does right in most of their recommendations. Just because ATi and Nvidia compete on performance doesn't mean they compete on price.

Right, like I said. It all depends on which way someone wants to go. Nobody is misinterpreting anything. Lots of choices.

 

HOOfan 1

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2007
2,337
15
81
I think the time it takes nVidia to bring out the GT300 may have as much of an impact on how it sells as do performance and price.

If the HD5870 is such a great card and is affordable, but it takes nVidia 4 months to come out with a competitor, then nVidia is already losing the race.
 

MODEL3

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
528
0
0
Originally posted by: WelshBloke
Originally posted by: Astrallite
Oh I year for the ATI 9700 days when the cards were cheap and nvidia was getting pounded.

*tap tap* :confused: Cards have never been as cheap and as powerful as now.

generally I agree.

I just remember the 9500PRO. ($200 price level)
ATI launched in Q3 2002 the:
9800PRO 325MHz core/310MHz mem/256bit mem con/128MB/8 ROPs at 400$
and after 1-2 months in Q4 the:
9500PRO 275MHz core/275MHz mem/128bit mem con/128MB/8 ROPs at 200$

http://www.tomshardware.com/re.../ati-delivers,556.html

In order to have something like that today:
ATI must launch in October the:
HD5870 850MHz core/1,2GHz mem/256bit mem con/1GB/32 ROPs/1600SPs at 400$
and in November/December a:
HD58XX 725MHz core/1,05GHz mem/128bit mem con/1GB/32 ROPs/1600SPs at 200$

9500PRO was unbeatable (price/performance) for its time.
 

MODEL3

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
528
0
0
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I can't believe you guys would dare to criticize charlie. Every round he is right about SOMETHING, it's like he has a crystal ball or ouija board helping him out.

ouija board?

lol
 

MODEL3

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
528
0
0
My prediction is that GT300 will be around 25% faster than 5870.
GT300=700-750MHz 32ROPs/128TUs/512SPs.

No ouija board used in the process.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
they don't need it to be that fast since their $129 card is already faster than the 5870 in real world gameplay with lifelike physix effects.
 

MODEL3

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
528
0
0
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
they don't need it to be that fast since their $129 card is already faster than the 5870 in real world gameplay with lifelike physix effects.

lol, i forgot about the PissX.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
they don't need it to be that fast since their $129 card is already faster than the 5870 in real world gameplay with lifelike physix effects.

hahah :D

:beer:

 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
8,313
3,177
146
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
they don't need it to be that fast since their $129 card is already faster than the 5870 in real world gameplay with lifelike physix effects.

lol wut? Blatant fanboi much? Not that I prefer Ati, I do prefer nvidia since my 6800 GT days on doom 3, and also because they fold better, but Cmon, this is just BS and makes no sense.

What $129 card are you talking about? Did you bring it back with your $129 billion dollar time machine? At present, you can get a good GTS 250 for $129, and MB a cheap GTX 260 for that on a good deal if you are lucky. W/E, the 5870 will probably be more than twice as fast as the latter.

Plus, even at $129 current gen, ATI wins in general in price-time per frame. {======}
The 4850 and sometimes the 4870 1 GB can be had for around that, with the first having an advantage in raw performance over nvidia's offering. GTX 260's may be better than the 4870 due to easier OC's, but generally cost a tad bit more. Still, a completely nonbiased person would usually be a wiser spender to go with Ati in this range unless they want to start folding.

Now, I personally prefer nvidia, as I fold and already have good experience with them, plus may want to get another 260. Or will wait for GT300. But I still try to be objective in my posts and considerations and can recognize when Ati would be the better choice.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
{- Please note that I use the price per performance ratio represented with the units of price-time per frame, using the logic that normally this would be measured as $/FPS = $/(frames/second) = ($ * seconds)/frame. Now technically a true ratio has no units, it basically a fraction. :D So I guess price:performance is technically not a ratio as they are measured with different units and :. at the end units remain as they cannot divide out.

If someone is of strong knowledge of scientific and mathematical reasoning and good with the use of units, dimensional analysis, AND preferably computer performance units a well, please correct me if my logic is flawed or I made a mistake or implemented my (theorem?) explantation wrong.

The way I see it, the "price per performance Ratio" is NOT a ratio. ( PPPerf != ratio) Given: monetary unit is different from performance unit...
<code>
#include <iostream>
#include "Ratio.h" //not going to be writing classes here though
#include "UnitPer.h"

int main()
{
UnitPer PPPerf;
PPPerf.numUnits = 3;

Ratio ratio;
ratio.numUnits = 0;

if(PPPerf.numUnits != ratio.numUnits)
cout << "QED";
}
</code>

OR
1. Ratio is a ratio iff it has no units, Ratio Definition
2. Price per performance "Ratio" must
be measured in "Monetary cost/performance unit", definition
3. Monetary cost unit is not equal to performance unit, given
4."Monetary cost unit / performance unit" has units of $/perf unit, division properties
5. :. "Ratio" has units, transitive property
"Ratio" != ratio, QED
-}

 
Apr 20, 2008
10,067
990
126
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
they don't need it to be that fast since their $129 card is already faster than the 5870 in real world gameplay with lifelike physix effects.

I SERIOUSLY hope this was a joke post.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Originally posted by: Shmee
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
they don't need it to be that fast since their $129 card is already faster than the 5870 in real world gameplay with lifelike physix effects.

lol wut? Blatant fanboi much?

He's just making fun of NV Shmee, NV actually made some official statement to the effect of what he is saying, it came out a week ago or so.
 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
8,313
3,177
146
ah ok, my bad. apologies where due :D IDC, what do you think of my proof/point on the price per performance "ratio"?