nVidia blocks Hardware Unboxed due to rasterization focus. Update: nVidia retracts.

[BFG10K]

Full letter

Spoiler

LTT coverage

My thoughts

I think this is wrong and to be completely fair, I called out this behavior when AMD played similar shenanigans with TPU and Tech Report.

As for the "gamers" comment above, as of right now I don't give a crap about ray tracing, and even less of a crap about DLSS. I own a 2060 Super and never use any of those features by choice, for various reasons. Perhaps in 3-5 years with 2-3 new generations of cards, my opinion might change.

Rasterization is by far the most important feature for me, and I'm not a minority by any stretch of the imagination:

Spoiler

Update: nVidia now retracted

https://twitter.com/x/status/1337885741389471745

I'm not surprised they retracted but I expected it to take longer along with a "it was an internal draft that was never supposed to be released", or similar.

 

[UsandThem]

How many of those "reviews" to you read or watch though? I think most people start to gravitate away from that kind of content because all it doesn't actually inform them of anything. The problem is ultimately self-correcting and maybe there's some money to be made in the short term, but you can only sacrifice your credibility so many times before it and any audience it gained you is gone.

It's not that I read them, but those type of "reviews" are fast replacing any real reviews.

The old style, objective hardware reviews are mostly dead. Just look how inactive places like the tech forums here have become over the last 10 years. Most of the current generation wants to watch a 3 minute YouTube video where an "influencer" tells them what to buy. YouTube gets its ad revenue, and the company only had to send a free product for the person to tell everyone how awesome it is. Cheap and effective.

 

[IEC]

nVidia doing its best trying to live up to its Corpo rep.

Few leave the corporate world with their lives - fewer still with their souls intact. You've been there - you've bent the rules, exploited secrets and weaponized information. There's no such thing as a fair game. Only winners and losers.

-Cyberpunk 2077

 

[Glo.]

The downvotes of my comments from a person who opened their account here in 2020 and has only interest in AMD products speaks to me that people like to just be extremists in their views, but there are people expressing how wrong it is too, a mix that is bad and rather it don't matter... the discussion of it really leads no where, other than ego baiting, ego upholding, skewing it to the common power held at the time and that power right now is that Nvidia are the devil and AMD are saints, this is how narrow minded people think and work. Power always changes hands...

When a lashing of truth is factored in and we bring it in with common sense, you get posts like mine.

But truthfully a lot of people are not for common sense or truth as it's far more personal to them.

In every single thread that points out stupid, uncompetitive, dishonest behavior of Nvidia, that were in the past multiple times, already, there is always plenty of people who want to defend Nvidia, who want to talk only about AMD, and their mistakes(drivers? Seriously? In a thread discussing disgusting hit job over Independent Outlets?). You are one of those that have appeard PRECISELY when stuff like this has appeard online, and started being discussed.

And lastly. You are not the one to judge who is for/has common sense, and who is not/doesn't have it. Because you are making an argument in the same rhetoric that Apple fanboys used years ago: "You are holding it wrong".

 

[UsandThem]

The downvotes of my comments from a person who opened their account here in 2020 and has only interest in AMD products speaks to me that people like to just be extremists in their views, but there are people expressing how wrong it is too, a mix that is bad and rather it don't matter... the discussion of it really leads no where, other than ego baiting, ego upholding, skewing it to the common power held at the time and that power right now is that Nvidia are the devil and AMD are saints, this is how narrow minded people think and work. Power always changes hands...

When a lashing of truth is factored in and we bring it in with common sense, you get posts like mine.

But truthfully a lot of people are not for common sense or truth as it's far more personal to them.

But you've been here since.......today.

So what makes a brand new poster more credible than another brand new user?

 

[Heartbreaker]

As expected it's been reversed:

Epic stupidity from NVidia PR.

The damage this does to their reputation, will linger LONG into the future.

 

[Mopetar]

But you've been here since.......today.

So what makes a brand new poster more credible than another brand new user?

Maybe MetalH2600 is a model number for a kind of black pot or something along those lines.

As expected it's been reversed:

Epic stupidity from NVidia PR.

The damage this does to their reputation, will linger LONG into the future.

Glad to see they decided not to go forward with something that idiotic, but I don't think anyone was expecting them to stick to their guns here. I also don't think it's going to hurt their reputation all that much since it's just one more thing on a long list and it isn't as though they're the only company doing stuff like this.

Most people will never be aware that it happened or will have forgotten about it in a month from now. Besides, the only true sin Nvidia could ever commit in the eyes of the faithful is not having the top performing card.

 

[AnandThenMan]

The damage this does to their reputation, will linger LONG into the future.

I doubt it.

 

[senseamp]

I love these "internet discovers reality" threads. Today we learned that a company's PR department is not just a procurement department for the reviewer, but actually has its own agenda when working with reviewers. Tomorrow, water is wet.

 

[chimaxi83]

The downvotes of my comments from a person who opened their account here in 2020

Did you forget to log in to your real account with an earlier join date before posting this?

 

[UsandThem]

Did you forget to log in to your real account with an earlier join date before posting this?

It's always the small details that so many posters of Christmas past get tripped on.

 

[Leeea]

The downvotes of my comments from a person who opened their account here in 2020

MetalH2600
Junior Member
Dec 12, 2020

Hey, my join date is 2020 also!

...

I hope they also ban this malicious persons older accounts also.

 

[CakeMonster]

I don't like internet drama, and I tend to stay away from the 'flashier' and gimmicky YT channels. This turned out well but it is a bit worrying that a solid and serious channel like HWUB seemingly needed shoutouts and engagement from the less so (but bigger) ones to get out of this kind of trouble.

 

[Iron Woode]

so, Nvidia's PR guy is going to need a PR guy?

 

[maddogmcgee]

I don't like internet drama, and I tend to stay away from the 'flashier' and gimmicky YT channels. This turned out well but it is a bit worrying that a solid and serious channel like HWUB seemingly needed shoutouts and engagement from the less so (but bigger) ones to get out of this kind of trouble.

Yeah it is. NVidia is just pushing the boundaries to see what they can get away with. They have done this to the really small reviewers and im sure still do. Hardware Unboxed is a decently large channel though so this was a clear escalation. If this massive drama hadn't been created by other reviewers I am sure this would have happened to other reviewers pretty quickly. In the end, this has done Hardware Unboxed a massive favour and given them a lot of free publicity.

 

[mikegg]

My thoughts:

1. HWU has been dismissive of DLSS and ray tracing in most of their videos. I did think they've gone too far because you're not upgrading to the 3000 series just to play your old rasterization games. The 1000 series still play games very well.

A 2060 Super can play Cyberpunk at 1080p high settings with ray tracing and DLSS. That's impressive. Nvidia's RTX and DLSS tech is really really good and they're clearly here to stay for all future AAA games.

2. I don't disagree with Nvidia's decision to stop supplying cards to them. But I disagree with the way they did it. Why not just silently not send them any cards? Why explain it to them? That's just asking for trouble. I would fire the PR guy.

 

[maddie]

My thoughts:

1. HWU has been dismissive of DLSS and ray tracing in most of their videos. I did think they've gone too far because you're not upgrading to the 3000 series just to play your old rasterization games. The 1000 series still play games very well.

A 2060 Super can play Cyberpunk at 1080p high settings with ray tracing and DLSS. That's impressive. Nvidia's RTX and DLSS tech is really really good and they're clearly here to stay for all future AAA games.

2. I don't disagree with Nvidia's decision to stop supplying cards to them. But I disagree with the way they did it. Why not just silently not send them any cards? Why explain it to them? That's just asking for trouble. I would fire the PR guy.

Because this was also a message to everyone. Isn't it obvious.

 

[mikegg]

Because this was also a message to everyone. Isn't it obvious.

Well then I disagree with Nvidia if that's what Nvidia was trying to do.

Again, I think it was fine for Nvidia to not supply cards to HUB. I too have found HUB's DLSS and ray tracing dismissals annoying. I just think their PR guy was stupid for how he decided to do it.

 

[maddie]

Well then I disagree with Nvidia if that's what Nvidia was trying to do.

Again, I think it was fine for Nvidia to not supply cards to HUB. I too have found HUB's DLSS and ray tracing dismissals annoying. I just think their PR guy was stupid for how he decided to do it.

I'm starting to think that maybe this was a directive from above, as Linus was shocked at this strange behavior from someone he knew and respected. Jensen Huang has exactly the personality to try this sort of ultimatum.

 

[tamz_msc]

It is the exact same thing, you're asking them to tell you how nice RT visuals are while not telling you how nice 1440p or 90FPS is. You want to pick and chose which subjective benchmarks are allowed.

In isolation 1440p or 90FPS is nice. But the context in which he says those things is RT performance and $400 cards. Well, he's not being objective when he's literally dictating to viewers what he considers acceptable and what fails to meet his threshold of acceptability.

To make my argument more concrete, just listen to what he says in conclusion to the 3060 Ti review. He states that for customers buying a $400 card it makes no sense to pair it with a 1080p display. Well on what basis does he state that? High refresh gaming is a thing, and even in his own charts the 3060 Ti is just averaging slightly higher than 144 FPS on high(not even ultra) settings. He literally dismissed his own findings to push the narrative that 1080p is not acceptable when paired with a $400 card.

 

[mikegg]

I'm starting to think that maybe this was a directive from above, as Linus was shocked at this strange behavior from someone he knew and respected. Jensen Huang has exactly the personality to try this sort of ultimatum.

I think Jensen has enough things to do at a 322 billion dollar company than to care about one slightly AMD-biased Youtuber. Come on now.

And you don't know Jensen's personality because you never met him. And 99% of Nvidia's employees approve of Jensen as the CEO so it would seem that he does not f over his employees at least.

Put aside your annoying conspiracy theories.

 

[BFG10K]

OP updated with nVidia's retraction.

Also HWUB's RT analysis in Cyberpunk:

Even with minimum RT, 3070 has the same 1% low as the 3060TI and runs slower than 2080Ti at 1440p + DLSS (1080p actual). Add that to the pile where 8GB isn't enough.

2060 is an outright failure at 1080p + DLSS (720p actual), again with minimal RT. It's clearly running out of VRAM as the 2060S basically doubles it's score. If the 3060 arrives with 6GB it'll be DOA.

I still remember certain individuals on the internet telling us the 2060 was "future-proof" and "RT ready". Nope, not when minimum RT + 720p upscaled gives a glorious 23FPS 1% low.

There's a bizarre recurring irony here: RT has a voracious VRAM appetite, yet nVidia consistently underspecs their cards in that area, with the exception of the 3090.

 

[BFG10K]

I did think they've gone too far because you're not upgrading to the 3000 series just to play your old rasterization games.

What utter nonsense, and reads just like the "we, gamers" in the OP letter.

Did you see the survey in the OP? At least 37,730 people don't agree with you, the 77% majority in that poll.

Next time use the word "I'm" instead of "you're" to more accurately reflect reality.

 

[Stuka87]

Well then I disagree with Nvidia if that's what Nvidia was trying to do.

Again, I think it was fine for Nvidia to not supply cards to HUB. I too have found HUB's DLSS and ray tracing dismissals annoying. I just think their PR guy was stupid for how he decided to do it.

HWUB has ENTIRE VIDEOS talking about DLSS and Ray Tracing, including for the 3080. AND they were even quoted ON nVIDIA's OWN WEB PAGE praising DLSS.

You sound as if you have never even watched their content, and you just want to be on nVidia's side.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I think Jensen has enough things to do at a 322 billion dollar company than to care about one slightly AMD-biased Youtuber. Come on now.

Because HUB didn't wave the Nvidia flag the way they wanted, Steve Walton is now a "slightly AMD-biased Youtuber"? BTW Jensen is 100% concerned or there would have been no retraction.

 

[MetalH2600]

Hey, my join date is 2020 also!

...

I hope they also ban this malicious persons older accounts also.

You failed to understand what i meant, i am not going to spend time reiterating my points to people who simplify and use comparatives to understand my point, you either can't comprehend what i say, or just want black and white thinking only. I don't think some posters here even intend to understand anything, just mirror and force one view, followers and sheep.

Good luck finding my alt account or whatever you intend to project on me, your defence is laughable that you automatically move to this.

The current belief, we must burn them at the stake if it goes against our religion!