Nvidia 270, 290 and GX2 roll out in November

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Quiksilver

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2005
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Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Quiksilver
I'm starting to see what INQ hates nvidia so much....

Seems all nvidia does anymore is...
Cut prices of current gen cards and then a few months later put out a revised current gen card with higher clocks and a few extra shaders under the same name. Then a few months later bring in a new set of re-hashed cards with a die-shrink, higher clocks, better cooling, nd more or equal shader count's as next gen cards. Rinse and Repeat.

I would rather them just cut their losses and focus on a true next gen cards.
What is the difference with AMD ?

4870 is a rehashed 2900 series :p

.. letsee 2900xt .. 3870 .. 4870 .. the 4870 is not even 2x faster than 2900xt


I would rather them just cut their crap also and focus on a true next gen card.
I suppose the difference would be that the 2900 series came into the market way way way too late with terrible performance. Then along came the 3800 series which was an improved version of the 2900 series still didn't quite offer the performance that could have been but overall fixed most of the 2900 series short-falls. Now the 4800 series came along and did what no one expected, offered great performance for the money and toppled most nvidia offerings in it's price range; it still however isn't perfect (eg. needs fan fix, and powerplay issues.) At this trend one can only assume that ATI/AMD's next gen cards are just going to fix those issues while offering even more performance. Sure, they have been putting out more 4 series card's but it's to fill price gaps mostly; the only real exception being the 4850X2 which is unnecessary imo still none of this compares to nvidia's re-hash spree and bad naming sprees.

My issues with nvidia cards:

8800GT (Should of never been a 8 series card)
8800GTS+ (The ones that had the extra shaders)
8800GTS 512 (Should of never been a 8 series card)
9600GSO (Essentially just a crippled 8800GT)
9800GT (Just a die-shrink of 8800GT; should have been the 8800GT)
9800GTX (Should of just been the 8800GTS 512)
9800GTX+ (Just an OC'd 9800GTX)
9800GX2 (Was unnecessary and overlapped performance for GT200 cards)
GTX 260+ (Just an OC'd 260 with a few extra shaders)

Now if I were to guess the INQ to be right about these cards they shouldn't exist either(seems the 270 is just a higher clocked 260+ and the 290 is just gonna be an OC'd 280; the dual-card I can't even gauge the power requirements for that thing.)

As I said before nvidia needs to focus on a true next-gen card instead of all these re-hashed cards to save their current gen cards.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: Azn
Originally posted by: nRollo


The GTX290 is especially appealling- a new single GPU performance champ is always welcome.
I don't see how it's great for us when all it is a die shrink of GTX 280. Maybe another 10% better performance. Yet still unable to play Crysis max detail.
It's great for NVIDIA as they will clean up in holiday sales, where both companies make a good majority of their card sales.
You sound like a tv commercial. :p
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
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Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

I have a hard time seeing a Nvidia X2 beating 4870x2.
The 9800GX2 beats the 4870 in Crysis. The GTX280 is still the fastest GPU. So yeah a GTX2xx X2 would stomp all over a 4870. No question.
:roll:
 

Compddd

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2000
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I would love a GTX 290 to drive my new Dell 3007WFP-HC, with an aftermarket Thermalright cooler to make it silent :) oo la la!
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: jaredpace
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

I have a hard time seeing a Nvidia X2 beating 4870x2.
The 9800GX2 beats the 4870 in Crysis. The GTX280 is still the fastest GPU. So yeah a GTX2xx X2 would stomp all over a 4870. No question.
:roll:
Why would Nvidia even *bother* if their GTX2 did NOT stomp on AMD's sandwich
- i am actually looking forward to seeing it attempt to take back the crown
- at what cost to Nvidia?
:Q

my prediction .. it will take all the crowns back .. BUT AMD will still retain the advantage with its 4850 perf/watt. That is AMD making money hand over fist on that one
:gift:

and my *belief* is that Nvidia is spoonfeeding Charlie CRAP again ...
personally .. i expect a speed bump and some optimizations to the 55nm tesla 2bs
- i expect the 270 to catch and beat the 4870/1GB

or Nvidia is in more serious trouble that i could imagine now :p
 

Ravynmagi

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2007
3,102
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I'd love for it to be true. But I've been hearing for every month that it's coming the next month.

In July, rumors said it was coming in August.
In August, the rumors said September.
In September, the rumors said October.
Now in October the rumors are saying November.

Gosh darn it, give me a break. Wish these "news sites" would just stop guessing or at least admit they are just guessing and not pull "credible sources" and "the cards are boxed up and ready to go" crap out of their butts.

Anyway, I hope it's true. But I stopped holding my breath a month ago and finally bought something.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
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it's not true because it's a blog, and at the end he says, "this is all made up and not true".

LOL?
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: Janooo
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Perfect. Thank you. Although they are from July and from Fudzilla, this is the best we have so far. And FYI, these links would have went well with your original post.

Now, lets see what happens now if this line doesn't pan out:

"So now we can easily say that this won?t happen and a more affordable HD 4000 will come with RV710 and 730 at some point in September / October time."

If RV710 and 730 are delayed, will AMD go ahead with the rename scheme if they can't deliver these GPU's to fill that market segment. Who knows. September is gone, October is 1/3 gone. So there is some bit of time left.
What delay? What are you talking about?
4670 was released awhile ago and it is 730 isn't it? And what are 4350 and 4550?
Please, stop spreading misinformation about AMD/ATI. It's not nice from your position.
Watch it Janoo.

Anyway, yes the 4670 seems to be 730, but we are talking about budget value cards here that ATI was going to rebrand. Calling them the 43xx and 45xx series when they really were 3xxx series or RV610/630 cores.

What I was SIMPLY saying, was that September is gone. October is 1/3rd gone. No value/budget 4xxx series cards yet IN SPITE of the 4670 having a 730 core.
I was just SIMPLY speculating on why that is.
What is not NICE, is you accusing me of spreading misinformation when we are only trying to have a discussion here. And I'm trying to find out the information for myself in the first place. Understand this.

So have the discussion. Without all the drama. Thank you. ;)
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: jaredpace
it's not true because it's a blog, and at the end he says, "this is all made up and not true".

LOL?
I think that was a pre-emptive stab at all the anti-Demerjian comments he will receive on that blogticle.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Thats a blog, not a news story. He burries the biggest story...the X2. He dismisses it, even though there is a good chance it will beat the 4870X2. What a tool.
charlie is almost as bad as fuad...

I must admit that I was shocked when they were right about gt200, however. They absolutely trashed gt200 vs 4xxx and I got a big laugh out of it...until they ended up being eerily correct. almost like they really DO have some good sources. Too bad their journalism is so 3rd rate.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: nosfe
last i checked ATi's rebranding of 3xxx cards is just a rumor, nothing more, so please stop spreading fud
It doesn't appear to be fud, nosfe. We all pretty much saw the driver notation. RV6xx class GPU's are now identified as 4xxx series lower end GPU's. Nobody is happy with it, but there it is.

OT. What I'm really not understanding, are the posts here that seem to not "want" new video cards to be created/released. Don't we all want this to happen? From either company?
Competition? Clearing of the old stock does make sense and discontinuation when the new cards arrive is just what both companies do. They both wish to make money, and will find whatever way is best for them to do so.

Charlie Demerjian (or the INQ in general) blew it with Nvidia by not agreeing to sign NDA's. Now he is barred from their events and inside information. He will never get over this apparently. But who cares. He is pretty much just a malice filled hack anyway. What I don't get is, if he didn't sign Nvidia's NDA, why would he be signing other NDA's for other companies? I mean, it appears the only company he hates is Nvidia. He loves ATI. Does this mean that he does sign their NDA's and is privvy to their inside info and hardware? It's all just too weird.

I can't wait for the new cards to hit. Should be very cool.
+1 for all the charlie-hatin'. that guy is a serious tool.
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
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Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

I have a hard time seeing a Nvidia X2 beating 4870x2.
The 9800GX2 beats the 4870 in Crysis. The GTX280 is still the fastest GPU. So yeah a GTX2xx X2 would stomp all over a 4870. No question.
sorry, all I saw there was "blah blah blah I hate ati blah blah blah". Why do you even bother to post here? You're obviously as much of an nvidia tool as charlie is an ati tool. rollo at least makes an effort to appear unbiased at times...
 

bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,143
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Originally posted by: badnewcastle
Damnit!!!! Now I have to wait for next month to decide on what card I spend 3-4 bills on...
best card for 3-4 bills is definitely gtx 280 imho, 2nd best is 4850x2.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
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charlie might be a tool, but he got all of us talking about him :)
And we even give him all that site traffic (traffic = ad revenue)
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Originally posted by: nRollo
Everyone reading this forum should hope all three of these cards goes on sale next month.

Bottom line is "More choices + higher performing products = we win".
:thumbsup: Hey, something me and nRollo can agree on! :Q
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
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With these market conditions, it is hard to imagine anyone making a large batch of a new product.
 

angry hampster

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2007
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www.lexaphoto.com
Did anyone else close the browser tab for that link when the poorly-coded flash ad took over the graph in the center of the page? A site that reports on tech doesn't deserve my time if they're too incompetent to run ads properly.
 

rjc

Member
Sep 27, 2007
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Originally posted by: janoo

What delay? What are you talking about?
4670 was released awhile ago and it is 730 isn't it? And what are 4350 and 4550?
Please, stop spreading misinformation about AMD/ATI. It's not nice from your position.
From the same site:
Radeon 4550 to come in ten days
"We've asked around about ATI's recently announced low-end products and found out the paper launched RV710 is going to hit retail in the next week or so.
...
The slower of the two RV710 cards, Radeon HD 4350, will come at a later date, but you should expect it in retail / etail by the end of the month.

We believe most cards went to OEMs and that this delay in shipping is not related to a production issue. "


The above cards are running into big competition from improved IGPs, can imagine as PCs fall to lower and lower price points the intrinsic cost of the add in card itself will doom them.

...might be completely wrong though ;)

[Edit - quote attributed to wrong person, sorry! ]
 

rjc

Member
Sep 27, 2007
99
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Originally posted by: ronnn
With these market conditions, it is hard to imagine anyone making a large batch of a new product.
TSMC is not doing so well, apparently rumors of their orders for september has sent their share price plunging. They are not keen to invest in the advanced processes unless orders pick up again, idle factories are bad.

Nvidia needs to be careful not to sell out the current 260s and 280s too cheaply, the performance of the new parts is likely to be within range of the current ones, and as such will provide a ceiling to what they can ask for 270 and 290.

Interesting in the article the GT206 is the straight 55nm die shrink of the GT200. There was much talk on the beyond3d site that it was a separate chip, a new design.

Have doubts on the dual card :( Think it would be much more expedient for nvidia to invest in getting tri-sli working better.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Originally posted by: rjc
Have doubts on the dual card :( Think it would be much more expedient for nvidia to invest in getting tri-sli working better.
Why? A dual card would be SLI, which works fine already and doesn't need a special motherboard like real SLI or tri SLI.
 

rjc

Member
Sep 27, 2007
99
0
0
Originally posted by: Zap
Why? A dual card would be SLI, which works fine already and doesn't need a special motherboard like real SLI or tri SLI.
Without reiterating the article, the 55nm shrink is G80 size not G92 size, just too much heat. Also i am pretty sure pci express has a 300W card limit which this card will come close to that unless its downclocked severely.

They have so much $$ to spend, money will have to be spent of SLI improvements no matter whether this card is introduced or not. The card is dependent on SLI development. ie in cutting expenses they have to cut the card first before possibly cutting SLI expenditure second.

Also the X58 and i7 arrive next month, i think they might just get 270/290 out in time to participate in the upgrade frenzy for all the people who insist on "the best" but the dual cards always come much later(ie 9800gx2,3870x2,4870x2). Dont think they will be there in time, better to try and sell a 290s in SLI.

After i7, there doesnt appear to be much in the future that will shift a large amount of high end cards.

People go on about 'halo', but it mores important to the companies to make money in the segment. As volume is low, margins have to be high or the whole thing collapses. At the moment cause of the discounting of the GT200 parts there's just no profit there for nvidia and partners. The 55nm shrink makes sure they they wont take a bath till the new generation of cards in the middle of next year. Investing heavily now though before the next generation is just throwing good money after bad.

Sorry for delay replying.
 

extra

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
1,947
6
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Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
What I was SIMPLY saying, was that September is gone. October is 1/3rd gone. No value/budget 4xxx series cards yet IN SPITE of the 4670 having a 730 core.
I was just SIMPLY speculating on why that is.
I'm confused... lol. The 4670 I bought for my wife's computer was $59 after a $10, or something like that, rebate....How is that not value/budget? It was cheap as shit, seems pretty insanely value/budget to me. Same deal with the evga 9600gt for $59 deal that I got. Friggin insane value/budget if you ask me...How is that not value/budget? What do you consider value/budget? $40? $30? Not trying to flame just curious why you don't consider something that can be had easily for less than $70, less than $60 if you look for a rebate deal, not a value card...
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,763
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Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

I have a hard time seeing a Nvidia X2 beating 4870x2.
The 9800GX2 beats the 4870 in Crysis. The GTX280 is still the fastest GPU. So yeah a GTX2xx X2 would stomp all over a 4870. No question.
Text

I really don't know what you're trying to say in this post, but the 9800gx2 beats a gtx280 in crysis also ;)

 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
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With a die shrink there shouldn't be a single shred of doubt that nV will be able to do a x2 part with extreme ease. I wouldn't say this without some data to back myself up of course so let's take a look at some numbers.

As of right now, a 216 with a healthy overclock(~75MHZ) uses 11Watts LESS power then a 4870 under load, 30 Watts less at idle. That isn't with a die shrink, that is right now. The overclocked 216 also runs with less noise and cooler then a 4870. Based on the data we have available, an overclocked 260 216 x2 is more viable then a 4870x2 in terms of power and heat, and we know how viable the 4870x2 is obviously. With a die shrink there is absolutely no doubt that the '270' would be very, very reasonable in a x2 configuration, it may end up being lower power then the potential 4850x2 part.

For conjecture- IF the die shrink reduced the 280's power consumption by 10% it would put it at less power draw then the 4870 currently has. That is an 'IF' situation- however that is well within reasonable for what we are talking about. If that did end up being the case, the 290 GX2 has the potential to draw less power then the 4870x2, how hot the card would actually run is a bit more difficult to say- the 4870x2 runs cooler then the 4870 so obviously a lot would come down to how good the cooler on the board is.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
Originally posted by: rjc
Also i am pretty sure pci express has a 300W card limit which this card will come close to that unless its downclocked severely.
PCI Express 75W
PCI Express 2.0 150W
6 pin PCI Express power plug 75W
8 pin PCI Express power plug 150W

Currently all PCIe 2.0 cards are backwards compatible, and no card needs more than one 6 pin and one 8 pin. What's to stop a company from changing that? A card that requires a PCIe 2.0 board and two 8 pin connectors will be capable of drawing 450W.

Of course I would not buy such a space heater. :frown:

Originally posted by: rjc
At the moment cause of the discounting of the GT200 parts there's just no profit there for nvidia and partners.
Everyone keeps saying that. Has anyone done a study of the BOM for a GT200 card? Anyone know what exactly TMSC charges for manufacturing chips for NVIDIA?
 

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