• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

nv35 news

By the time you get done waiting for the nv35 to be shipped to retail (not just "shown" at E3)

Then you'll prolly see the Radeon 10000 sitting beside that..

Donno, i'd just say, if you happy with what you have now, wait and see whats next.
If your not happy currently (as in your favorite game is chugging along at 10fps at 640x480) then pick up the 9800.

And i have baddd baddd Jagermeister stories from Freshman year...
 
By the time you get done waiting for the nv35 to be shipped to retail (not just "shown" at E3)
Click to expand...

Currently the word is that the NV35 will be shipping at nearly the exact time they announce it. The part isn't being fabbed by TSMC, IBM is handling it and they won't be having the same issues that they had with the NV30/31/34. It may not end up that way, but all indications are pointing to the NV35 being ramped up about now.
 
Originally posted by: Cyberkiller6
whats ati's new card have 9800pro?
Click to expand...


I see that you are the admininstrator of the site you posted a link to.

So you know when the NV35 is coming out yet are unaware of ATIs current offering? Thats odd.




 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
By the time you get done waiting for the nv35 to be shipped to retail (not just "shown" at E3)
Click to expand...

Currently the word is that the NV35 will be shipping at nearly the exact time they announce it. The part isn't being fabbed by TSMC, IBM is handling it and they won't be having the same issues that they had with the NV30/31/34. It may not end up that way, but all indications are pointing to the NV35 being ramped up about now.
Click to expand...

I think that's wishful thinking considering nVidia just announced that deal with IBM.

I'd expect NV35 on shelves by this summer. Around the time of its announcement, I have the feeling ATi will announce the 256MB version of R350. Whether it will have faster clocks is unkown, but most think it will use DDR-II.

It has been all but confirmed that R400 will not debut until Spring 2004. Many do anticipate ATi to release another stop-gap part this Fall, rumored to be R390. It's rumored to be a much higher clocked, .13mu version of R350.
 
Aye I doubt well see IBM doing the manufacturing of the NV35, NV35 has already taped out and more.. so TSMC probably already has the manufacturing lines setup for Nvidia and IBM would take a bit to do so. We shouldn't see IBM fabing their newest chips till NV40 or possibly a variant of NV35.
 
Originally posted by: Dulanic
Aye I doubt well see IBM doing the manufacturing of the NV35, NV35 has already taped out and more.. so TSMC probably already has the manufacturing lines setup for Nvidia and IBM would take a bit to do so. We shouldn't see IBM fabing their newest chips till NV40 or possibly a variant of NV35.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that. Its already been confirmed that IBM will be handling NV35 wafers, the big question mark was whether or not TSMC would be getting any NV35 wafer allocations and when IBM would be able to ramp up to production. My concern is seeing two distinct lines of NV35 for early run chips; one from IBM and early samples from TSMC on the market. If I had my druthers, I'd pick IBM for sure (given their advanced fab capabilities and TSMC's problems at 130nm). Inking and announcing a deal doesn't necessarily mean nVidia is starting cold turkey over at IBM either.

Part of due diligence for any deal of this magnitude involves ensuring your potential partner has the manufacturing capabilities to meet expectations. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if nVidia was running 2 concurrent fab lines for NV35, one at TSMC and one at IBM. If anything, IBM would be further along simply b/c TSMC was using their 130nm lines for the first/last run of NV30 chips. Once nVidia was satisified IBM would be able to meet their 130nm expectations based on production samples, the deal would've been inked and announced. The last 8 months of TSMC delays would have been plenty of time to get this done. I think a late May/early June NV35 launch would be optimistic, but a late June/early July launch certainly seems reasonable based on all of the reports of NV35 samples floating around.

Chiz
 
Doubt anything else will go down in price, I reckon the NV35 will retail for more thna the 5800 Ultra did, so the 9800 Pro will be cheaper.
 
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
By the time you get done waiting for the nv35 to be shipped to retail (not just "shown" at E3)
Click to expand...

Currently the word is that the NV35 will be shipping at nearly the exact time they announce it. The part isn't being fabbed by TSMC, IBM is handling it and they won't be having the same issues that they had with the NV30/31/34. It may not end up that way, but all indications are pointing to the NV35 being ramped up about now.
Click to expand...

I think that's wishful thinking considering nVidia just announced that deal with IBM.

I'd expect NV35 on shelves by this summer. Around the time of its announcement, I have the feeling ATi will announce the 256MB version of R350. Whether it will have faster clocks is unkown, but most think it will use DDR-II.

It has been all but confirmed that R400 will not debut until Spring 2004. Many do anticipate ATi to release another stop-gap part this Fall, rumored to be R390. It's rumored to be a much higher clocked, .13mu version of R350.
Click to expand...

Yes, from another article I read on the IBM alliance, sorry, can't find it to link to it....the IBM deal is because NVidia's high end processor designs are based upon using the low-k dielectrics that TSMC is having trouble with, that being said (I think it was an interview), the IBM deal is to help production (and probably research) on high-end stuff while TSMC will still handle the majority of the fabbing for NVidia's line. If I find the link, I will post it.

P-X
 
There's no indication that NV35 will be using low-k dielectrics or any other exotic fab process (such as 90nm or SOI). Production samples have already been shown at CeBit in private and a recent nVidia HQ tour by Xbit displayed pictures of NV35 cores going through Q&A. I can only imagine yields, clockspeed, and heat being the major hurdles as well as any PCB and memory controller details required to support the target operating frequencies.

Here's a snippet from an interview with Mike Hara, VP of Investor Relations at nVidia:
GeForce FX

This is NVIDIA?s latest architecture, and the one they will base all of their future products on for at least the next year and a half. Even though it had a very disappointing introduction due to TSMC?s inability to produce the part, and NVIDIA?s inability to get it to market, it is still an impressive architecture. While the NV-30 did not exceed expectations, it is still a solid part that competes well against ATI?s top of the line product, the 9700 Pro.

The real excitement will begin when NVIDIA starts to ship the NV-31 and NV-34 based parts (GeForce FX 5600/Pro and GeForce FX 5200/Pro respectively). NVIDIA has publicly stated that it will ship 1.5 million NV-3X processors by the end of March. Of that number some will be 5800's of the standard and Ultra versions, but the majority of them will be 5200 and 5600 based products.

NVIDIA has also shown off working silicon of the NV-35 chip, and it appears to be significantly more powerful than the NV-30. Even though the NV-30 was delayed, the other projects continued on schedule, and the NV-35 was part of that schedule. Perhaps the NV-35 was originally positioned for a Fall 2003 release, but due to pressure from ATI as well as the disappointing launch of the NV-30, we can probably expect the NV-35 to be introduced within the next four months. While Mike couldn?t verify this, he did mention that this 2nd quarter was going to be VERY interesting.

By the end of this year NVIDIA predicts that 80% of all wafer starts will be of NV-3X based parts. This is a huge shift, as NVIDIA still produces a significant quantity of TnT 2 based parts, as well as GeForce 2 MX and others. This also means a significant portion of NVIDIA?s product portfolio will be end of lifed. We can probably expect the GeForce 4 line to be some of the parts no longer produced.
Click to expand...

As well as some newsbits on the IBM and nVidia deal:
EETimes #1
EE Times #2
ZDNet

There are a few Inquirer-esque sites that outright say IBM will be producing NV35, but until an official announcement, its still unofficial.
To summarize what's said in the articles: nVidia wasn't real happy with TSMCs (in)-ability to produce their high end NV30 part. They brought IBM in to remedy the situation now and in the future. IBM is set to begin mass production of nVidia chips this summer.

Who do you think will be fab'ing NV35?

Chiz
 
Here is what I read....from Ace's Hardware mainpage...

There's an interesting article at Penstarsys based on an interview with NVIDIA's Mike Hara. The article covers a variety of topics, including the Xbox and Xbox 2, as well as the mobile market, TSMC, and more. On the subject of TSMC:

TSMC was initially supposed to implement low-k in their 0.13u Cu process in Q3 2002, but it didn?t turn out to be the case. NVIDIA initially designed the NV-30 to utilize a low-k design, but that was dropped very shortly due to the increased risk that the low-k process will not be available. This turned out to be a good decision, but one that was not important enough to get the NV-30 out in a timely manner. Due to these process technologies, the NV-30 was delayed time and again, and only now are we seeing these products trickle into the market. Going with IBM as a primary partner will help to alleviate these problems, as the IBM fab at East Fishkill is begging for customers to use their advanced processes on 300 mm wafers. IBM already has available low-k and SOI features for bulk 0.13u Cu products. NVIDIA thinks that this is perfect for their next round of products.

It was announced last week that NVIDIA and IBM had made a foundry agreement:

IBM will start out this summer making Nvidia graphics products on its 0.13-micron bulk CMOS process with the fluorinated silicate glass (FSG) dielectric, rather than the more challenging low-k SiLK dielectric.

This doesn't mean the end of NVIDIA's relationship with TSMC, however. It has been indicated in the interview that IBM will manufacturer high-end parts due to be released this Fall, while TSMC will handle the bulk of NVIDIA's production needs.
Click to expand...

Edit: Here is the linky to the actual article.

P-X
 
Originally posted by: chizow

There are a few Inquirer-esque sites that outright say IBM will be producing NV35, but until an official announcement, its still unofficial.
To summarize what's said in the articles: nVidia wasn't real happy with TSMCs (in)-ability to produce their high end NV30 part. They brought IBM in to remedy the situation now and in the future. IBM is set to begin mass production of nVidia chips this summer.

Who do you think will be fab'ing NV35?

Chiz
Click to expand...
Interesting and quite possible. I "imagine" the deal was cut with IBM after they were able to show they could produce exactly what nVidia was looking for . . . In other words, I don't think it will take long to ramp up production of NV35 (it DOES look to be a "killer" GPU).

In "related" news, ATI . . .
ATI to ?significantly increase? orders to TSMC and UMC
ATI Technologies will ?significantly increase? its orders to foundry partners Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) and United Microelectronics Corporation (UMC) this year, according to CEO KY Ho.
The Toronto-based graphics chipmaker said the company will not seek any alliance with other chipmakers such as IBM. Its orders to the Taiwanese chip-making duo will increase significantly this year compared to 2002, Ho said in a telephone interview with the media.

All of ATI?s 0.13-micron chips and most of its 0.15-micron chips are manufactured at TSMC, although the company has begun to manufacture some of its RV280 graphics chips on UMC?s 0.15-micron processes.

Nvidia, TSMC?s largest client, signed a deal with IBM last week to manufacture its new generation GeForce FX graphics chips. It is believed that Nvidia hopes to use the new NV35 chip, to be introduced in May, to enhance its competitive edge in the high-end market against the Radeon 9800 (R350) from ATI Technologies.

In the interview conducted in Mandarin, Ho acknowledged he has heard rumors regarding Nvidia?s complaints about TSMC?s advanced 0.13-micron processes, though he believes that the quality of advanced manufacturing processes at TSMC is ?not bad, actually? and may be ?as good as other players.?
Click to expand...



From the Inq . . . J/king - DIGITIMES!
See Chiz, I haven't completely "neglected" GH. 😉

rolleye.gif
 
P-X, that's the same article I linked to and posted a few weeks ago. There's still some inconsistencies within the article due to speculation and the secrecy surrounding nVidia's road map for 2003, but its still pretty clear NV35 won't be low-k, which would slow-down ramp up time for sure:

From the Mike Hara Interview:
IBM will start out this summer making Nvidia graphics products on its 0.13-micron bulk CMOS process with the fluorinated silicate glass (FSG) dielectric, rather than the more challenging low-k SiLK dielectric.
Click to expand...
And from the EE Times article:
IBM will start out this summer making Nvidia graphics products on its 0.13-micron bulk CMOS process with the fluorinated silicate glass (FSG) dielectric, rather than the more challenging low-k SiLK dielectric.

IBM expects to begin making its first 90-nm products for internal use late this summer. The three-year agreement will bring Nvidia into the 90-nm technology realm, where different flavors of low-k will be used at IBM and TSMC.

Nvidia had some difficulties last year bringing up its high-end graphics chips on TSMC's 0.13-micron FSG process, but those early problems are largely resolved, Itow said. IBM has struggled as well to get high yields on its 0.13-micron low-k process for FPGA-maker Xilinx Corp.
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like a press kit datasheet response doesn't it? Considering the target release of NV35 appears to be sooner rather than later, I'd take the above comments to mean 90nm, SOI and low-k will be technologies reserved for NV40 and beyond.

Originally posted by: apoppin

Interesting and quite possible. I "imagine" the deal was cut with IBM after they were able to show they could produce exactly what nVidia was looking for . . . In other words, I don't think it will take long to ramp up production of NV35 (it DOES look to be a "killer" GPU).
Click to expand...
I came to the same conclusion. Hell has frozen over. :Q

Nvidia, TSMC?s largest client, signed a deal with IBM last week to manufacture its new generation GeForce FX graphics chips. It is believed that Nvidia hopes to use the new NV35 chip, to be introduced in May, to enhance its competitive edge in the high-end market against the Radeon 9800 (R350) from ATI Technologies.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how reliable DigiTimes is, but one of the firms I used to work for used would send out IT Flashes that often linked to DT.com, so I guess if its good enough for a multi-billion dollar consulting firm, its good enough for me? 😕

Also, more from Digitimes now that you linked to it: Breakdown of nVidia wafer production from DigiTimes

See Chiz, I haven't completely "neglected" GH. 😉
Click to expand...
Heh, I figured if I posted enough about this you wouldn't be able to resist. 😉
I'm still not going over to W/ME though, as I try to stay away from the non-tech forums. My solution would probably be a little too simplistic and without a doubt unpopular over there. I know enough people in the US armed forces serving in and around Iraq to be concerned, but I prefer not to deal with what's going on over that forum.

Chiz

 
Originally posted by: chizow
P-X, that's the same article I linked to and posted a few weeks ago. There's still some inconsistencies within the article due to speculation and the secrecy surrounding nVidia's road map for 2003, but its still pretty clear NV35 won't be low-k, which would slow-down ramp up time for sure:

Originally posted by: apoppin

Interesting and quite possible. I "imagine" the deal was cut with IBM after they were able to show they could produce exactly what nVidia was looking for . . . In other words, I don't think it will take long to ramp up production of NV35 (it DOES look to be a "killer" GPU).
Click to expand...
I came to the same conclusion. Hell has frozen over. :Q

Nvidia, TSMC?s largest client, signed a deal with IBM last week to manufacture its new generation GeForce FX graphics chips. It is believed that Nvidia hopes to use the new NV35 chip, to be introduced in May, to enhance its competitive edge in the high-end market against the Radeon 9800 (R350) from ATI Technologies.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how reliable DigiTimes is either, but one of the firms I used to work for used to send out IT Flashes that often linked to DT.com, so I guess if its good enough for a multi-billion dollar consulting firm, its good enough for me? 😕

See Chiz, I haven't completely "neglected" GH. 😉
Click to expand...
Heh, I figured if I posted enough about this you wouldn't be able to resist. 😉
I'm still not going over to W/ME though, as I try to stay away from the non-tech forums. My solution would probably be a little too simplistic and without a doubt unpopular over there. I know enough people in the US armed forces serving in and around Iraq to be concerned, but I prefer not to deal with what's going on over that forum.

Chiz
Click to expand...
I don't know about "hell freezing" but when you're right, "you're right". 😉

I have been saying - long before NV35 was even "speculation" - to expect the nVidia "empire" to "strike back" with something pretty impressive! (and I am indeed "hoping so" - that way I can selfishly get a 97/9800 for "cheap")

"Prefer not to deal with what's going on over that forum" . . . you are (much) smarter than I previously gave you credit for. 😉

rolleye.gif


EDIT: "A few weeks ago"? The DigiTimes article's date is April 3, 2003!

(if) NV35 is released sometimes in May . . . (therefore) cheap 9700s in July . . . 😀



 
I wasn't necessarily disagreeing or agreeing with you chiz...just posting the source of my comments like I promised 🙂

As for my actual opinions on the NV35, I think it defenitiely will be more sucessful than the NV30 (how could it NOT be). Seriously, though, I think the NV35 will put Nvidia back on top, it remains to be seen just how screaming a souped up R350 will be with 256MB of DDR-II. I've seen reports about the NV35 being "good" "very good" "awesome"...and then you have Anand's nebulous comments in another post, seeming to have seen a running NV35, pronounced it good...but seeming to intimate that it wasn't anything "shockingly awesome"...time will tell...

What I'm actually interested in, is why ATI has suddenly flip-flopped with Nvidia. The ATI Radeon 8500 for $75 was a sweet card for the same price you could get the lame MX series....now ATI has the continuously name changing 9200 Pro that seems to be seriously lacking against the 5200 from Nvidia....ah well, I'm not quite ready to spring for my "mid-level" card quite yet....it should be interesting to see just which one is the killer "Ti 4200-esque" card in the next few....

P-X
 
now if only i could find where i guessed a while ago that nvidia's next core, NV35, will be amazing, at that time, i said dont quote me, but hey i guess im right, no one believed me then


Oh well i need money to buy anything first
 
Well, the kicker was...how "awesome" the NV30 was...and we waited and waited....and then...surprisingly (at the time) ATI's card was just as "amazing" and available even....so some are taking similar "awesome" claims about the NV35 with a grain of salt...as is the case with any hardware...we must wait until production units are available before passing final judgement (i.e. the WD Raptor). Of course, pre-judging and speculation is an AT specialty 😉

P-X
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top