NV35 Benchmarks

Krk3561

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2002
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Tuesday, a friend lituanien (let us stop always showing Russian!) us forwarded some figures obtained on Ultra GeForce FX 5900 as its impressions vis-a-vis the some briefs tests which it had been able to make. We did not publish these figures upon the departure bus they appeared to us "too high". In fact, they were correct but carried out with the drivers Detonator 50.xx. This person could return us the same results but with less advanced drivers, certainly close to those which will be used in the tests which will be published the next week. This thus means that the first tests published will not be carried out with the new drivers which would name Detonator FX.

We added there the score of our Radeon 9800 Pro of test benchée on the same platform (nForce 2), with the same CPU (Athlon XP 3000+). Not having GeForce FX 5800 pennies the hand, we picked in the data base of Futuremark for this chart.

This being said, here figures in question:

3dmark03 Benchmark Graph


If the increase in the performances is only light (but well presents) with "traditional" drivers, it strongly increases with the 50.xx! However, it could be that the scores are not comparable with those of Ultra GeForce FX 5800 which cheating always in 3d Mark 2003. In other words, although the difference between the 2 charts of NVIDIA is thin with the same drivers, it would seem that the 5900, it, cheating not.

As you know it, GeForce FX 5200, 5600 and 5800 have a large handicap during calculations in Floating Point like the 64 bits (4 X 16 bits) or the 128 bits (4 X 32 bits). NVIDIA doubtless "looked after" GeForce FX 5900 in this field. Besides this joined the comments which we received of which here an extract translated into French:


"... of pretty figures! Ca made a long time on behalf of material NVIDIA! The images seem well, more problem of quality to the first glance. Afflicted not to be able to give you figures as detailed as the other time...... but the images seem correct this time. Truth floating not at a decent speed. You know what I think of that, and you divisions my vision of the things I think (?), it is for me a first chart of NVIDIA which will be able to post the graphics conceived in the direction of DX9... "
We agree of course completely with this person as for Floating Point which is according to us one of the major interests of the DirectX9 material. Although putting it strongly ahead, NVIDIA does not hesitate to decontaminate it in its drivers over the remainder of range FX to gain in performances.


Our fellow-member 3DChips-Fr published this evening some details concerning GeForce FX 5900:


Bus report 256 bits

450 MHz for the core

425 MHz for the 256 Mo of memory

UltraShadow Technology

Intellisample HTC

CineFX 2.0

Power in Floating not doubled

More dry hair
CineFX 2.0 seems to be only CineFX with UltraShadow. Technology which makes it possible to accelerate returned shadow volumes. But it is difficult to say if it is of an innovation hardware or a technology software intended for all range FX, but marketée only with the FX 5900 to increase the impact of the advertisement.

In short, GeForce FX 5900 seems to hold its promises! What somewhat changes remainder of the range FX which, it should be acknowledged, had disappointed overall.
 

TROGDORdBURNINATOR

Senior member
May 4, 2003
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The 5800 ultra scores 5429 in 3dmark03
The new GPU scores 5981.

That's NOT an impressive boost.

Their Detonator FX drivers look impressive. I wonder if they finally meet the DX9 standard with 12 bit FP precision rather than cheeting for benches so they can finally get WHQL certified. I wonder if they also now render everything in 3dmark03 so as to stop cheating. Who knows...
 

Krk3561

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: TROGDORdBURNINATOR
The 5800 ultra scores 5429 in 3dmark03
The new GPU scores 5981.

That's NOT an impressive boost.

Their Detonator FX drivers look impressive. I wonder if they finally meet the DX9 standard with 12 bit FP precision rather than cheeting for benches so they can finally get WHQL certified. I wonder if they also now render everything in 3dmark03 so as to stop cheating. Who knows...

The 5900 Ultra w/ NV30 drivers scores 5981

The 5900 Ultra w/ its appropriate drivers scores 6678

THAT IS AN IMPRESSIVE BOOST!


Why dont you correctly report the scores? Cause you work for ATI?
 

MistaTastyCakes

Golden Member
Oct 11, 2001
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Who cares if it takes two slots? Nobody uses the first PCI slot anyways. Or they shouldn't be at least.

As for the benchmarks, it seems when the NV35 is using the drivers made for it, it gives quite the nice edge :)
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: TROGDORdBURNINATOR
The 5800 ultra scores 5429 in 3dmark03
The new GPU scores 5981.

That's NOT an impressive boost.

Their Detonator FX drivers look impressive. I wonder if they finally meet the DX9 standard with 12 bit FP precision rather than cheeting for benches so they can finally get WHQL certified. I wonder if they also now render everything in 3dmark03 so as to stop cheating. Who knows...

Have you read the post here? http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=1005214&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

According to that, back then on Quake 3 at 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 8xAF it got 111FPS and the Ti5800 Ultra that got 48 FPS. I think that this card is going to be aimed at being able to run at higher resolution with AA and AF rather than lower resolutions, maybe thats where Nvidia is focusing their power, because who doesn't want to run at high resolutions with 4xAA and 8xAF and still run smoothly?
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
26,108
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Originally posted by: MistaTastyCakes
Who cares if it takes two slots? Nobody uses the first PCI slot anyways. Or they shouldn't be at least.

As for the benchmarks, it seems when the NV35 is using the drivers made for it, it gives quite the nice edge :)

Exactly, it has the edge, and to most users one PCI slot doesn't mean much. heck, I've only use one PCI slot and thats for a TV tuner/Capture Card.

Their drivers seem impressive as well. Now all Nvidia has to do is make sure their pricing is good and they have my sale, otherwise ATI because I'm not a fanboy of any but instead I go with the one who gives me the best performance for $200 plus or minus $50.
 

TROGDORdBURNINATOR

Senior member
May 4, 2003
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The 5900 scores 5981

The 5900 Ultra scores 6678

No, actually that's not true at all. As you can see from reading the graph they're BOTH 5900 Ultra. The only difference is that one is using the Detonator FX. Since it's using a different driver you can't compare it to the 5800Ultra's tests. The difference is:

5800 ultra scores 5429
5900 ultra GPU scores 5981.

Read the graph before you try to correct me.

Why dont you correctly report the scores? Cause you work for ATI?

Why don't you read the graph before ignorantly and rudely spouting off and realize that they're both 5900Ultras?
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: Megatomic
Originally posted by: TROGDORdBURNINATOR

So, some people use Shuttle PCs and micro-ATX.
Then those people won't be able to use this card. No biggie, I doubt they represent the majority of users out there.

Also, most opt for a 7500 or 8500 just so that it can stay cool in there.
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
26,108
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Originally posted by: TROGDORdBURNINATOR
The 5900 scores 5981

The 5900 Ultra scores 6678

No, actually that's not true at all. As you can see from reading the graph they're BOTH 5900 Ultra. The only difference is that one is using the Detonator FX. Since it's using a different driver you can't compare it to the 5800Ultra's tests. The difference is:

5800 ultra scores 5429
5900 ultra GPU scores 5981.

Read the graph before you try to correct me.

Why dont you correctly report the scores? Cause you work for ATI?

Why don't you read the graph before ignorantly and rudely spouting off and realize that they're both 5900Ultras?

I think in this case the drivers will help the NV35 GPU more than the 5800 Ultra so I don't think that matters much. Also, if drivers make that much of a difference, its only good news for people to buy other FX products unless they really hate the noise.

 

TROGDORdBURNINATOR

Senior member
May 4, 2003
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Yeah, as long as Nvidia doesn't follow its recent trend by cheating with their drivers.

NV30 doesn't even meet DX9 standards which is why it can't get WHQL certified. It doesn't use the correct floating point precision in its drivers because if it does, it gets slaughtered by R3xx. Even by cheating with the lower FP precision, it's still slower which is really sad. I just hope that they don't pull something similar to get an increase in speed with these drivers. They got their increase last time by faking DX9 and shrugging off WHQL.
 

OddTSi

Senior member
Feb 14, 2003
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I say everyone needs to just calm down and take a deep breath.

3DMark03 scores are obviously not the biggest thing to compare since nVidia themselves tried to discredit the scores and didn't someone show some pictures giving proof of how nVidia cheated image quality in order to get higher scores in 3DMark03.

I say we all just wait until Anand posts his benchmarks of the card. Let's hope that he pays attention to image quality also, since I know there's been some talk about nVidia's latest drivers lacking in that department.
 

TROGDORdBURNINATOR

Senior member
May 4, 2003
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and didn't someone show some pictures giving proof of how nVidia cheated image quality in order to get higher scores in 3DMark03

Yes, the nvidia drivers don't render a lot of stuff: bullets, explosions, etc.

image quality also, since I know there's been some talk about nVidia's latest drivers lacking in that department.

That's true. Their IQ can't hold a candle. They've been "playing" with their stock settings to get those extra FPS. Of course, those FPS aren't comparable to ATI numbers since they have a "unchanged" IQ setting.
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: OddTSi
I say everyone needs to just calm down and take a deep breath.

3DMark03 scores are obviously not the biggest thing to compare since nVidia themselves tried to discredit the scores and didn't someone show some pictures giving proof of how nVidia cheated image quality in order to get higher scores in 3DMark03.

I say we all just wait until Anand posts his benchmarks of the card. Let's hope that he pays attention to image quality also, since I know there's been some talk about nVidia's latest drivers lacking in that department.

He did make a reply in this post, http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=1005214&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=

I think he was supporting NV35

Also, if you've read his articles carefully, you'll know fairly how strong NV35 is, its sometimes hard to notice, but he's hinted at it a few times here and there.
 

TROGDORdBURNINATOR

Senior member
May 4, 2003
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TROGDOR is quick to scorn Nvidia for driver cheating when ATI was caught doing the same thing a while ago

Just like everyone scorned ATI for it, nvidia gets its turn. Of course, our "cheat" only affected one game (not any games based on the same engine) Nvidia's FP precision crap affects anything DX9. I hope they learn from it like ATI did but I'm wondering exactly what they did to get that performance boost. I hope they learned...
 

TROGDORdBURNINATOR

Senior member
May 4, 2003
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nVidia themselves tried to discredit the scores

By the way: nudge nudge: nvidia tried to do that because the test showed very well how poor their card and drivers were. It's all PR. Nvidia loves 3dmark when they're winning.
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
26,108
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Originally posted by: TROGDORdBURNINATOR
TROGDOR is quick to scorn Nvidia for driver cheating when ATI was caught doing the same thing a while ago

Just like everyone scorned ATI for it, nvidia gets its turn. Of course, our "cheat" only affected one game (not any games based on the same engine) Nvidia's FP precision crap affects anything DX9. I hope they learn from it like ATI did but I'm wondering exactly what they did to get that performance boost. I hope they learned...

I see some tough competition going to happen soon between ATI and Nvidia for the top performing card which means that I can get a nicer card, cheaper!
 

TROGDORdBURNINATOR

Senior member
May 4, 2003
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see some tough competition going to happen soon between ATI and Nvidia for the top performing card which means that I can get a nicer card, cheaper!

I see that too. ATI has a thing or two up it's sleeve. If Nvidia can actually pull off that much of an increase with NV35 and their detonator FX drivers while actually meeting DX9 standards and restoring image quality settings to acceptable "non-cheating" levels, ATI might have some trouble competing. Thouse would have to be some amazing drivers though. Frankly, I hope they do catch up again. That would be nice for everyone.
 

AgaBoogaBoo

Lifer
Feb 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: TROGDORdBURNINATOR
see some tough competition going to happen soon between ATI and Nvidia for the top performing card which means that I can get a nicer card, cheaper!

I see that too. ATI has a thing or two up it's sleeve. If Nvidia can actually pull off that much of an increase with NV35 and their detonator FX drivers while actually meeting DX9 standards and restoring image quality settings to acceptable "non-cheating" levels, ATI might have some trouble competing. Thouse would have to be some amazing drivers though. Frankly, I hope they do catch up again. That would be nice for everyone.

That sounded like a true comment I'd hear from someone. Not any other comment just to defend ATI, not saying your other posts were bad because I would have done the same in your place, but that truly sounded to me like your "true" status on what is going on and not as much of a 'just defend ATI' response. :beer:
 

Wurrmm

Senior member
Feb 18, 2003
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Competition is definately good for everyone......Just look at the CPU market. Prices are great right now for both AMD and Intel (better after Intel's May 21 price drop).