nV GPU failures could be affecting certain desktops as well

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: thilan29
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: thilan29


It doesn't say it's the GPU at fault there either (as it doesn't in the desktop warranty extension page) but we know it to be the case don't we? I've only seen Dell actually point to the GPU as being the cause of failures...not all companies will come out and point the finger.
So nothing says it's a GPU issue, so it must be a GPU issue....... :confused:
Do you only read half of a sentence?

I'll try again:
It doesn't say it's a GPU issue on the HP site for the notebooks either BUT it was already admitted by nVidia (after a while). Is the same not plausible for the desktops on the HP site? Can you understand it better now?

I'm not gonna go over that again...if you don't wanna read it don't.
Once again NOTHING says it's a GPU issue NOTHING. I'm not gonna go over that again...if you don't wanna read it don't.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
Originally posted by: thilan29
Just because it was capacitors in YOUR case doesn't mean it is in EVERY case. The only reason the GPU is being suspected here is because of the previous nV notebook GPU failures.
By similar logic, just because it was the NV part in the OTHER case doesn't mean EVERY case.

Originally posted by: apoppin
the truth is in-between the extremes
I've been trying to say that for a few weeks, but people love to be polarized on issues. The truth is too pedestrian.

People just love to hate, as evidenced by human history.

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Both my 8800 GTS and 8800 Ultra died shortly after one year of purchase, both G80 chips. I've never had any video card that die that fast before and then boom, suddenly two G80 cores fail one after the other.
I saw quite a few dead Radeon X800 series cards BITD, some lasting mere weeks. Does that mean anything?

In the past four years the only brand of HDD that I've had to RMA was Seagate. Does that mean anything?

In any case, this whole issue is a lose-lose situation for Nvidia and us enthusiasts.

If it is discovered there is a huge coverup and NVIDIA is 100% at fault with 100% faulty products, game over.

If it is discovered there is zero coverup and NVIDIA was 0% at fault with 100% working products, many people will still believe there is a coverup somewhere and that somehow NVIDIA is at fault.

If game over for NVIDIA, we enthusiasts at the higher end are stuck with just ATI/AMD products until the unproven Larabee comes out (and to those who posted in threads over the Summer praising Larabee before even seeing a benchmark/timedemo... tsk tsk). Without NVIDIA to push them, does anyone think ATI will still push out such frequent driver revisions and such overperforming and underpriced products like the 4850? You guys think AMD/ATI is strong enough to even be able to single-handedly supply enthusiasts with all the GPU chips we can eat? Remember this is AMD we are talking about, who is surviving because they found a sugar daddy, and who just paid Hector (I thought we'd heard the last of him?) another multi-million bonus and set him up to head the new Foundry Company.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,659
1,762
126
Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: thilan29
Just because it was capacitors in YOUR case doesn't mean it is in EVERY case. The only reason the GPU is being suspected here is because of the previous nV notebook GPU failures.
By similar logic, just because it was the NV part in the OTHER case doesn't mean EVERY case.
I'd agree with you if it weren't for the notebook issue and that ALL models with the warranty extended had nV integrated graphics (this is what TR said).
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
166
106
Just so we're clear, it is acceptable (if not beneficial) to discuss matters directly relating to video that aren't video in and of themselves. That includes business/financial situations and questioning the validity of such a colorful rag like The Inq. However these things will be watched closely, and we won't hesitate to start locking things up if it deviates from video much more; the tolerance on these matters is much less, and if people are just going to go back and forth, we may as well just lock the thread (remember: it's okay to agree to disagree. It's not the end of the world if someone on the internet is wrong).

Issues beyond a close relation to video never have or will be appropriate for this specific forum.

-ViRGE
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: thilan29
The only reason the GPU is being suspected here is because of the Inquirer
Fixed.
No still broken .. except for the 3 or 4 true believers still left on this board


Nvidia has admitted failure already .. TechReport also thinks it certainly could be desktop issues as these HP model-specific problems only seem to affect Nvidia IG
Did they actually say, or confirm, that it was in fact the Nvidia IGP that is failing? Or is it that they are just suspecting it in light of the laptop issue?
the failure we are aware of is the one that Nvidia set 200$M aside for
- *that* failure .. the one they admitted :p

how many failures are you looking for?
:confused:
That's not what I asked. I asked if they actually said, or confirmed, that it was in fact the Nvidia IGP that is failing. I didn't ask about the 200 million. I didn't ask about the quantity of failures. What I am asking is, what in fact is causing the failures in these HP desktops?

What could be happening is:
The mass hysteria of the laptop issue is spreading.
The IGP's in those HP desktops are having issues
One of the other 100's of motherboard components could be having issues.

Take your pick. Come on people, it's not like PC's don't have components that fail other than the chipsets. Years ago, I was a Dell Certified tech and serviced literally thousands of Dell Workstations, Desktops, Servers, and Laptops. All had their own issues now and then.
The most prominent one I can remember, was an issue with many models of Dell laptops keyboards failing. It was a manufacturing defect, but it affected a few dozen laptops out of the 500 or so we had to work on. All were replaced under Dell's warranty. Must have cost them a lot of money to replace them, but they did under obligation. Everyone was annoyed at the inconvenience, but in the end they were happy their machines were fixed.

Oh, and one other nightmare that I recall. On certain Dell desktops, if Linux was run, the IGP's would fry crispy and render lines in bios and OS. Sometimes nothing at all. It took a while to narrow down this problem, but it was a strange issue. No problems under windows on the same models of desktops that were affected by Linux.

It took time for this last issue to manifest itself, and I don't think anyone could have foresaw this issue. But these machines were fixed under warranty as well with improved chipsets. It's what warranties are for.

If these HP machines are having issues, they will get repaired under warranty also.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: thilan29
The only reason the GPU is being suspected here is because of the Inquirer
Fixed.
No still broken .. except for the 3 or 4 true believers still left on this board


Nvidia has admitted failure already .. TechReport also thinks it certainly could be desktop issues as these HP model-specific problems only seem to affect Nvidia IG
Did they actually say, or confirm, that it was in fact the Nvidia IGP that is failing? Or is it that they are just suspecting it in light of the laptop issue?
the failure we are aware of is the one that Nvidia set 200$M aside for
- *that* failure .. the one they admitted :p

how many failures are you looking for?
:confused:
That's not what I asked. I asked if they actually said, or confirmed, that it was in fact the Nvidia IGP that is failing. I didn't ask about the 200 million. I didn't ask about the quantity of failures. What I am asking is, what in fact is causing the failures in these HP desktops?

What could be happening is:
The mass hysteria of the laptop issue is spreading.
The IGP's in those HP desktops are having issues
One of the other 100's of motherboard components could be having issues.

Take your pick. Come on people, it's not like PC's don't have components that fail other than the chipsets. Years ago, I was a Dell Certified tech and serviced literally thousands of Dell Workstations, Desktops, Servers, and Laptops. All had their own issues now and then.
The most prominent one I can remember, was an issue with many models of Dell laptops keyboards failing. It was a manufacturing defect, but it affected a few dozen laptops out of the 500 or so we had to work on. All were replaced under Dell's warranty. Must have cost them a lot of money to replace them, but they did under obligation. Everyone was annoyed at the inconvenience, but in the end they were happy their machines were fixed.

Oh, and one other nightmare that I recall. On certain Dell desktops, if Linux was run, the IGP's would fry crispy and render lines in bios and OS. Sometimes nothing at all. It took a while to narrow down this problem, but it was a strange issue. No problems under windows on the same models of desktops that were affected by Linux.

It took time for this last issue to manifest itself, and I don't think anyone could have foresaw this issue. But these machines were fixed under warranty as well with improved chipsets. It's what warranties are for.

If these HP machines are having issues, they will get repaired under warranty also.
that was one heck of a song and a dance

Yes, it is all Nvidia IG .. *confirmed*

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/23...m-hit-hp-desktops.html
HP has confirmed that Nvidia's faulty GPUs have created faults with 38 different models in its slimline PC range.

Nvidia's GPU problems have so far been confined to laptops, but HP says Nvidia parts are also to blame for the problem in its desktops.
Now my orignal question, you are expecting more failures?
:confused:

 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,659
1,762
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
Yes, it is all Nvidia IG .. *confirmed*

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/23...m-hit-hp-desktops.html
HP has confirmed that Nvidia's faulty GPUs have created faults with 38 different models in its slimline PC range.

Nvidia's GPU problems have so far been confined to laptops, but HP says Nvidia parts are also to blame for the problem in its desktops.
I'm guessing some people here will want HP to send them a letter written and signed (in blood :p ) by the CEO before they believe it. :)
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
they would ask for it .. then they would refuse to look at it
- and then they would continue to spin that "it really doesn't mean it is Nvidia's fault"
:Q

Now we know for sure

*confirmed* .. Nvidia IG is the sole reason for HP's 38 models having the aforementioned issues
- not capacitors :p

Nvidia's IG


Conclusion: there are more problems - as was originally suspected - with Nvidia gpus in Notebooks and now issues with desktop parts

it appears that Charlie was correct .. is correct .. but that does not make him a good journalist
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: apoppin
they would ask for it .. then they would refuse to look at it
- and then they would continue to spin that "it really doesn't mean it is Nvidia's fault"
:Q

Now we know for sure

*confirmed* .. Nvidia IG is the sole reason for HP's 38 models having the aforementioned issues
- not capacitors :p

Nvidia's IG


Conclusion: there are more problems - as was originally suspected - with Nvidia gpus in Notebooks and now issues with desktop parts

it appears that Charlie was correct .. is correct .. but that does not make him a good journalist
Sorry dude. That is not a confirmation.

Check this comment from the very article you linked to:

"We are working very closely with HP to determine if/how the Nvidia chipset is involved in the failures. Modern PCs are complex and OEMs determine their own warranty and repair programs based on their individual testing."

So, although it is certainly possible, it has not been confirmed yet.

I'm not singing and I'm not dancing. I would like a straight answer though. As would you.
 

Canterwood

Golden Member
May 25, 2003
1,138
0
0
As if Nvidia chipsets weren't bad enough, now more failing graphics chips.

Consumer confidence in Nvidia will be plummeting faster than the stock market has been.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
they would ask for it .. then they would refuse to look at it
- and then they would continue to spin that "it really doesn't mean it is Nvidia's fault"
:Q

Now we know for sure

*confirmed* .. Nvidia IG is the sole reason for HP's 38 models having the aforementioned issues
- not capacitors :p

Nvidia's IG


Conclusion: there are more problems - as was originally suspected - with Nvidia gpus in Notebooks and now issues with desktop parts

it appears that Charlie was correct .. is correct .. but that does not make him a good journalist
Sorry dude. That is not a confirmation.

Check this comment from the very article you linked to:

"We are working very closely with HP to determine if/how the Nvidia chipset is involved in the failures. Modern PCs are complex and OEMs determine their own warranty and repair programs based on their individual testing."

So, although it is certainly possible, it has not been confirmed yet.

I'm not singing and I'm not dancing. I would like a straight answer though. As would you.
Sure it is and you are a master .. Dancing with the Stars is in your future as you spin and spin; you focus on one word - "if" .. as though it was SS Nvidia's only life preserver .. you forget the "how" the IG is involved is more important; HP is SURE it is Nvidia's fault and Nvidia does NOT deny

You are one i am talking about who will shut his eyes to the facts if it is negative about Nvidia:

"We are working very closely with HP to determine if/how the Nvidia chipset is involved in the failures.
HP says Nvidia parts are also to blame for the problem in its desktops.
Updated: HP confirms Nvidia flaw hits desktops
HP has confirmed that Nvidia's faulty GPUs have created faults with 38 different models in its slimline PC range.
"HP is aware that certain Nvidia chips used in the HP Pavilion Slimline Desktop PCs may experience issues," the company claims in a statement sent to PC Pro.
Nvidia says the issue with the HP desktops isn't necessarily linked to the laptop GPU issues. "It is slimline, notebook-like design but there is no conclusive evidence that the failure mechanism is the same as the notebook issue we announced in July,
- that is even WORSE .. which shows the NVIDIA ISSUES are more widespread than laptop GPUs - *confirmed*;there is a possible second failure mechanism


they already have determined the NVIDIA CHIPSET is involved in the failures ..
- now we will see the details .. the 'if/how' it happened .. the fluff .. but we have a confirmation that Nvidia's IG is at issue
- for a precedent, Nvidia has already admitted fault on the GPUs - which you also fought tooth-and-nail

here is a FACT from Nvidia
"[Nvidia] would like to be more upfront about this - but we can't be."
so i see you also can't be upfront about this .. we already know
--my condolences to your company
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
It's not my company. It would be pretty cool if it was though.
Back OT. You are slowly becoming akin to good ol Charlie in your end of the world rants here.
Hey, if that is what satisfies you. Knock yourself out.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Mountains of molehills anyone? The 6150 IGP is ludicrously common, yet failures remain infrequent AFAIK. I've used tons of 6150s (and 780G, Intel IGP, etc) in client systems with no failures to speak of. Sounds like the problem with this batch/configuration (I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that all of those 'slimline' HP systems use variants of the exact same mobo) has been identified and will be dealt with.

AFAIK ATI IGP is >>>> Nvidia IGP for now, but whatever. As long as Nvidia makes good on payment/replacement of any defective parts that were faulty because of MFG/design issues on their part, what's the big deal? The 6150 is a pretty old design anyway, and has already been replaced by newer models.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Mountains of molehills anyone? The 6150 IGP is ludicrously common, yet failures remain infrequent AFAIK. I've used tons of 6150s (and 780G, Intel IGP, etc) in client systems with no failures to speak of. Sounds like the problem with this batch/configuration (I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that all of those 'slimline' HP systems use variants of the exact same mobo) has been identified and will be dealt with.

AFAIK ATI IGP is >>>> Nvidia IGP for now, but whatever. As long as Nvidia makes good on payment/replacement of any defective parts that were faulty because of MFG/design issues on their part, what's the big deal? The 6150 is a pretty old design anyway, and has already been replaced by newer models.
Understatement of the year.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
It's not my company. It would be pretty cool if it was though.
Back OT. You are slowly becoming akin to good ol Charlie in your end of the world rants here.
Hey, if that is what satisfies you. Knock yourself out.
Akin to Charlie for pointing out the confirmed facts to you? :p
- i gave Nvidia the benefit of the doubt before it all became clear

what end of the world rants?
- i do not see this as the end for Nvidia

i think you are confusing me with someone else and trying to draw attention to the fact that you are completely "one sided" when it comes to video. 100% for Nvidia. Which is good, as Nvidia has lost touch with most of its former loyal fans as they press on into other markets ignoring the enthusiasts that supported them for so long.


 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
13
81
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Mountains of molehills anyone? The 6150 IGP is ludicrously common, yet failures remain infrequent AFAIK. I've used tons of 6150s (and 780G, Intel IGP, etc) in client systems with no failures to speak of. Sounds like the problem with this batch/configuration (I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that all of those 'slimline' HP systems use variants of the exact same mobo) has been identified and will be dealt with.

AFAIK ATI IGP is >>>> Nvidia IGP for now, but whatever. As long as Nvidia makes good on payment/replacement of any defective parts that were faulty because of MFG/design issues on their part, what's the big deal? The 6150 is a pretty old design anyway, and has already been replaced by newer models.
Understatement of the year.
The "big deal" exists for those people who own an affected Nvidia based computer that is out of warranty when the GPU fails. As Arkaign pointed out, the 6150 is a widely used product, both in laptops and desktops. That's a potentially huge number of people who will end up having to buy a new computer because of this defect. With the ridiculously high pricetag the OEMs place on replacement motherboards, it will most likely not make economic sense to attempt to resurrect the failed computer. Instead, they will have to be replaced with brand new units. At the end user's own expense.

I'm pretty sure that once businesses have to start replacing multiple computers due to GPU failures using their own budget, they'll think it's a big deal, too.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,659
1,762
126
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Sorry dude. That is not a confirmation.

Check this comment from the very article you linked to:

"We are working very closely with HP to determine if/how the Nvidia chipset is involved in the failures. Modern PCs are complex and OEMs determine their own warranty and repair programs based on their individual testing."

So, although it is certainly possible, it has not been confirmed yet.
What you quoted is what nV said. This is what HP said:

"HP is aware that certain Nvidia chips used in the HP Pavilion Slimline Desktop PCs may experience issues," the company claims in a statement sent to PC Pro.

"Some of these computers may not boot or may not display video. Computers experiencing either or both of these symptoms, attributable to the computer's motherboard, are eligible for HP's Limited Warranty Service Enhancement."


There's your confirmation. I'm sure HP did some testing of their own...cause blaming nV if it wasn't actually does not bode well for future relations.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: thilan29
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Sorry dude. That is not a confirmation.

Check this comment from the very article you linked to:

"We are working very closely with HP to determine if/how the Nvidia chipset is involved in the failures. Modern PCs are complex and OEMs determine their own warranty and repair programs based on their individual testing."

So, although it is certainly possible, it has not been confirmed yet.
What you quoted is what nV said. This is what HP said:

"HP is aware that certain Nvidia chips used in the HP Pavilion Slimline Desktop PCs may experience issues," the company claims in a statement sent to PC Pro.

"Some of these computers may not boot or may not display video. Computers experiencing either or both of these symptoms, attributable to the computer's motherboard, are eligible for HP's Limited Warranty Service Enhancement."


There's your confirmation. I'm sure HP did some testing of their own...cause blaming nV if it wasn't actually does not bode well for future relations.
And what does the word, "may", mean to you? I'm not playing semantics here dude. It's what was said in black and white. What you quoted.
So, now what does this all mean to you? HP enhancing it's warranties for customers extending to Dec. 2009. They are doing something. What is the problem?
 

SilentRunning

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2001
1,493
0
76
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: thilan29
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Sorry dude. That is not a confirmation.

Check this comment from the very article you linked to:

"We are working very closely with HP to determine if/how the Nvidia chipset is involved in the failures. Modern PCs are complex and OEMs determine their own warranty and repair programs based on their individual testing."

So, although it is certainly possible, it has not been confirmed yet.
What you quoted is what nV said. This is what HP said:

"HP is aware that certain Nvidia chips used in the HP Pavilion Slimline Desktop PCs may experience issues," the company claims in a statement sent to PC Pro.

"Some of these computers may not boot or may not display video. Computers experiencing either or both of these symptoms, attributable to the computer's motherboard, are eligible for HP's Limited Warranty Service Enhancement."


There's your confirmation. I'm sure HP did some testing of their own...cause blaming nV if it wasn't actually does not bode well for future relations.
And what does the word, "may", mean to you? I'm not playing semantics here dude. It's what was said in black and white. What you quoted.
So, now what does this all mean to you? HP enhancing it's warranties for customers extending to Dec. 2009. They are doing something. What is the problem?
Yes, you are not playing semantics but HP is. They used the word "may" because if they said "will" then there would be a demand for a recall of the products. Usage plays a big role in how soon electronics failures will ocur and some people will replace their computer before their computer fails.


 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,659
1,762
126
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And what does the word, "may", mean to you? I'm not playing semantics here dude. It's what was said in black and white. What you quoted.
So, now what does this all mean to you? HP enhancing it's warranties for customers extending to Dec. 2009. They are doing something. What is the problem?
To me it means that like any hardware issues it won't affect 100% of the computers that have the IGP in question. What does that whole sentence mean to you? Not just the word "may"...the whole sentence.

If HP said:
"HP is aware that certain IGP chips used in the HP Pavilion Slimline Desktop PCs may experience issues" instead of "HP is aware that certain Nvidia chips used in the HP Pavilion Slimline Desktop PCs may experience issues" then I agree it wouldn't be confirmation...but the fact that they named it as being the nVidia chips is confirmation that that is what's causing the problem. I don't understand how you don't see that.

Like SilentRunning said if they had implied that it will affect all those models 100% of the time...they'd have to do a full recall wouldn't they (for selling a faulty product)?.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
I've used gobs of 6150-based stuff since 2006, and had zero issues. IDK what the big deal is here. *shrug*
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: thilan29
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And what does the word, "may", mean to you? I'm not playing semantics here dude. It's what was said in black and white. What you quoted.
So, now what does this all mean to you? HP enhancing it's warranties for customers extending to Dec. 2009. They are doing something. What is the problem?
To me it means that like any hardware issues it won't affect 100% of the computers that have the IGP in question. What does that whole sentence mean to you? Not just the word "may"...the whole sentence.

If HP said:
"HP is aware that certain IGP chips used in the HP Pavilion Slimline Desktop PCs may experience issues" instead of "HP is aware that certain Nvidia chips used in the HP Pavilion Slimline Desktop PCs may experience issues" then I agree it wouldn't be confirmation...but the fact that they named it as being the nVidia chips is confirmation that that is what's causing the problem. I don't understand how you don't see that.

Like SilentRunning said if they had implied that it will affect all those models 100% of the time...they'd have to do a full recall wouldn't they (for selling a faulty product)?.
Well, they haven't implied anything except that HP slimline PC's may experience issues.
And that they will be enhancing their warranty for said PC's. It seems HP is being pretty stand up about this.

 

shangshang

Senior member
May 17, 2008
830
0
0
I find it a bit statistically odd that of all the reports and articles out there claiming this huge problem at NV, there hasn't been much people in HERE who are ACTUALLY reporting this issue! That to me is very statistically odd. I don't doubt that the problem does exist at NV, but it's probably blown way out of proportions.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
J Graphics Cards 16

ASK THE COMMUNITY