NSA reforms fail in the senate

[ivwshane]

The "CIA, NSA etc" are under the Exec branch. I.e., the Obama admin.

The OLC (Office of Legal Council), which is also under the Exec branch/Obama admin, provides the legal guidance to such agencies.

Fern

Which is exactly why it's up to congress to put them in check. Obama isn't going to do it, he agrees with the program.

 

[Jhhnn]

OK, Provisions of the Patriot Act sunset this year. It takes a positive vote to renew them, a possibility.

Instead you seem to think that the Patriot Act is up for debate. No, that can be stalled or manipulated, but a deadline is a deadline. There is no putting it off. Now given the penchant for shenanagans from the Patriot Act supporters just what makes you think they won't try trickery and deceit to shoot down the positives? I'm supposed to forfeit a guaranteed chance for some elusive possibility that could be gutted AND WILL make the Patriot Act effectively invulnerable for at least 2 more years until the next carrot of hope is dangled as a diversion?

Throughout this thread & others, you've set the perfect out as the enemy of the good, insuring that we keep the bad, even as you denounce those who want to move in the right direction against a near solid wall of Repub recalcitrance.

It's just like the last time around, when Repubs ran out the clock with delays, then insisted on the whole thing being left as is. That's despite some rather pious pronouncements from Rand Paul & your attempts to hold up his motivations as representative of Repubs. That's obviously not true, and the act will remain as it is until they allow it to be changed. The notion that the Act will be allowed to expire, particularly with Repubs in charge, is completely absurd & not a valid point of consideration.

I'm not for the Patriot Act at all, but I am a realist.

 

[ivwshane]

I'm pretty sure the point of getting 60 votes is to cut-off debate so it can be taken to vote (plus amendments added etc.) If so, you have it backwards.

Fern

I looked it up, I was wrong. Ignore my previous post about it.



I still haven't seen that had this bill passed it would have renewed the patriot act. Anyone else see that language in this bill?

 

[Cozarkian]

Ok, I'm following you now but I'll say it's a bullshit excuse by politicians who aren't willing to make tough votes.

My first example is a good reason if true, but easily subject to abuse as an excuse since there is no way to test whether it is true.

The second is always an excuse, but the problem lies more in how the system is run rather than with the any single politician. If voters start proving they care more about politicians doing what they believe than what the party believes (by kicking out incumbents that toe-the-line), then the latter excuse will go away.

 

[werepossum]

Which is exactly why it's up to congress to put them in check. Obama isn't going to do it, he agrees with the program.

Unfortunately, so does Congressional leadership in both parties.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Throughout this thread & others, you've set the perfect out as the enemy of the good, insuring that we keep the bad, even as you denounce those who want to move in the right direction against a near solid wall of Repub recalcitrance.

It's just like the last time around, when Repubs ran out the clock with delays, then insisted on the whole thing being left as is. That's despite some rather pious pronouncements from Rand Paul & your attempts to hold up his motivations as representative of Repubs. That's obviously not true, and the act will remain as it is until they allow it to be changed. The notion that the Act will be allowed to expire, particularly with Repubs in charge, is completely absurd & not a valid point of consideration.

I'm not for the Patriot Act at all, but I am a realist.

You are a friend of the unacceptable. You excuse virtually every wrong which makes your party or President look less than what they are. You excused accountability for Iraq as even now the administration fights against against letting the public know about torture. You did the same for the NSA, making Obama out as a helpless victim, when the whole damn Intel apparatus answers to him. When rescheduling of MJ was discussed you again passed the buck although the law allows it without Congressional action. Being the enemy of the good? Maybe that's what your version of "realism" is. As for me I'll not abandon hope even as you sell out. No, not yet.

 

[Jhhnn]

You are a friend of the unacceptable. You excuse virtually every wrong which makes your party or President look less than what they are. You excused accountability for Iraq as even now the administration fights against against letting the public know about torture. You did the same for the NSA, making Obama out as a helpless victim, when the whole damn Intel apparatus answers to him. When rescheduling of MJ was discussed you again passed the buck although the law allows it without Congressional action. Being the enemy of the good? Maybe that's what your version of "realism" is. As for me I'll not abandon hope even as you sell out. No, not yet.

Remarkable denial. Would you like a pony with that, princess?

I'll give you a clue- The Patriot Act won't be going away any time RSN. The best we'll get is revision, if Repubs will allow it. So far, they've just gone with the template of the Party of No, which you seek to defend by blaming the people who want to make it better. When it's all or nothing, as you suggest, we'll get nothing. I rather suspect you actually know that to be true.

None of the rest of your shotgun rant matters in the slightest. Iraq! Torture! Marijuana! Obama!

Desperate distraction.

 

[Jhhnn]

Unfortunately, so does Congressional leadership in both parties.

Check the facts, like the recent vote in the Senate.

I forgot- you're a Rightie, so facts don't matter. False equivalency covers all the bases. My mistake.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Remarkable denial. Would you like a pony with that, princess?

I'll give you a clue- The Patriot Act won't be going away any time RSN. The best we'll get is revision, if Repubs will allow it. So far, they've just gone with the template of the Party of No, which you seek to defend by blaming the people who want to make it better. When it's all or nothing, as you suggest, we'll get nothing. I rather suspect you actually know that to be true.

None of the rest of your shotgun rant matters in the slightest. Iraq! Torture! Marijuana! Obama!

Desperate distraction.

Well that's strange. Feinstein thinks that if the bill which didn't pass didn't then by her own words key portions are going away. It seems that you actually are incapable of understanding that. As far as my "rant" that also doesn't register for the same reason. Fortunately you aren't the one whom I make these points for as there are those who aren't so corrupted by their sense of partisanship.

 

[piasabird]

So what happens if some lone wolf blows up the NSA building in Utah?

Do we really need to have a branch of our government dedicated to spying on over a billion people at once?

Cant we just drastically cut the NSA budget in the House?

 

[fskimospy]

So what happens if some lone wolf blows up the NSA building in Utah?

Do we really need to have a branch of our government dedicated to spying on over a billion people at once?

Cant we just drastically cut the NSA budget in the House?

The House doesn't want to cut the NSA's budget. In fact, the House's bill, which failed, was even weaker than the Senate's.

 

[hal2kilo]

Well that's strange. Feinstein thinks that if the bill which didn't pass didn't then by her own words key portions are going away. It seems that you actually are incapable of understanding that. As far as my "rant" that also doesn't register for the same reason. Fortunately you aren't the one whom I make these points for as there are those who aren't so corrupted by their sense of partisanship.

You seriously believe that this congress would just let the Patriot Act lapse? Leopards don't change their spots.

 

[fskimospy]

Well that's strange. Feinstein thinks that if the bill which didn't pass didn't then by her own words key portions are going away. It seems that you actually are incapable of understanding that. As far as my "rant" that also doesn't register for the same reason. Fortunately you aren't the one whom I make these points for as there are those who aren't so corrupted by their sense of partisanship.

Seriously man, the Patriot Act isn't going away.

When it is reauthorized in the near future I think you will be sad that this opportunity to rein in the NSA was lost.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well that's strange. Feinstein thinks that if the bill which didn't pass didn't then by her own words key portions are going away. It seems that you actually are incapable of understanding that. As far as my "rant" that also doesn't register for the same reason. Fortunately you aren't the one whom I make these points for as there are those who aren't so corrupted by their sense of partisanship.

Hogwash. Feinstein isn't the rest of the Democrats in the Senate, nor is RP the rest of the Repubs. If you want an explanation of her little dance, you'll need to get it from somebody else.

What was the vote total & who voted which way? Did the White House not support the changes?

The truth in that puts the lie to your unwavering wall o' bullshit.

Like I said, the last time the Act came up for renewal, Repubs took it hostage- All or nothing, ran out the clock, got what they wanted, the Patriot act unchanged. This is the same play all over again, mock piety from charlatans like RP notwithstanding.

Dems simply will not allow the act to expire in entirety. Bet on that. It's political suicide. The fear mongering from Repubs would be epic. They'll take it the way it is rather than let that happen.

McConnell laid it all out, the Repub position, yet you seem to be deliberately blind to that in your own thinly veiled partisan fashion.

 

[Jhhnn]

Seriously man, the Patriot Act isn't going away.

When it is reauthorized in the near future I think you will be sad that this opportunity to rein in the NSA was lost.

He'll just blame Obama, or Reid, or Dems in general rather than acknowledge the truth. Conservative denial is an all encompassing thing, a trusty ally of Repub leadership.

 

[piasabird]

The Fed Govt uses every branch and department of the federal government as an unofficial secret police force. I thought only a complete idiot would give the IRS more power than they already have.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Seriously man, the Patriot Act isn't going away.

When it is reauthorized in the near future I think you will be sad that this opportunity to rein in the NSA was lost.

Because this was the only opportunity which will ever exist right? You wanted a bet, can you bet the farm that's the case?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He'll just blame Obama, or Reid, or Dems in general rather than acknowledge the truth. Conservative denial is an all encompassing thing, a trusty ally of Repub leadership.

And you have a most conservative mind, very much so. Party uber alles.

 

[Jhhnn]

And you have a most conservative mind, very much so. Party uber alles.

Wah. Your dodging of post #114 is painfully obvious.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Wah. Your dodging of post #114 is painfully obvious.

So you are stupid too. What a surprise. While you and Obama and many Republicans along with Feinstein support the Patriot Act (oh yes you do) all you can do is point at the Republicans. Yes they are responsible and I look forward knowing who votes for what come June. Of course you'll just blame Republicans, because heaven forbid you have to be critical of anyone else. Come to think if it, have you ever had an original idea about anything? I can't remember you doing anything but bitching about the Republicans and excusing the Democrats. Tragically conservative. But please, continue and show yourself for what I've called you out to be. How's that "hack" doing? You have the worst case I've seen.

 

[BoberFett]

So you are stupid too. What a surprise. While you and Obama and many Republicans along with Feinstein support the Patriot Act (oh yes you do) all you can do is point at the Republicans. Yes they are responsible and I look forward knowing who votes for what come June. Of course you'll just blame Republicans, because heaven forbid you have to be critical of anyone else. Come to think if it, have you ever had an original idea about anything? I can't remember you doing anything but bitching about the Republicans and excusing the Democrats. Tragically conservative. But please, continue and show yourself for what I've called you out to be. How's that "hack" doing? You have the worst case I've seen.

Jhhnn is one of those unsufferable Democrats:

* Everything bad is the fault of Republicans
* Any good from Republicans must be a devious ploy
* Everything good is from the Democrats
* Any bad from the Democrats is either brilliant politicking or the best they can do in the face of evil Republican opposition

It's people like him that cause Democrats to be barely discernable from Republicans.

 

[kage69]

You must be a retard, all Repubs voted against NSA reforms.

You'll only confuse them with facts.

And yes, just check out his other posts for confirmation.


Mitch the Turtle strikes again, and the republican supporters lap it up and pretend it doesn't mean anything. Funny stuff.

 

[irishScott]

And despite Obama and Diane Feinstein coming out in strong support of the NSA repeatably, it'll be all the Republicans fault. All of it, clearly. Democrats are either absolutely blameless or less to blame than Republicans, despite the Chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the President, among other Democrats, supporting the measure.

That will be the prevailing sentiment anyway. The person with the last word always gets blamed.

 

[Jhhnn]

So you are stupid too. What a surprise. While you and Obama and many Republicans along with Feinstein support the Patriot Act (oh yes you do) all you can do is point at the Republicans. Yes they are responsible and I look forward knowing who votes for what come June. Of course you'll just blame Republicans, because heaven forbid you have to be critical of anyone else. Come to think if it, have you ever had an original idea about anything? I can't remember you doing anything but bitching about the Republicans and excusing the Democrats. Tragically conservative. But please, continue and show yourself for what I've called you out to be. How's that "hack" doing? You have the worst case I've seen.

Always with the dodging & false attribution. What part of this Repub hostage taking scenario scenario do you fail to understand?

Congress as a whole has no intention of allowing the Act to expire. It will not happen. That's reality. You need to acknowledge that. There's no other honest context, and you know it.

The recent vote in the Senate illustrates who's willing to alter some of the most egregious provisions and who is not. If you think Repubs intend more of that than was proposed, you're delusional. McConnell has thrown down the gauntlet, meaning that he and his party will bury any positive change as often as it comes up until the Sacred Patriot Act emerges unscathed, same as it ever was.

That's what happened last time, and there's ample reason to believe that history will repeat itself. If you can't acknowledge that, you're being dishonest.

 

[Jhhnn]

Jhhnn is one of those unsufferable Democrats:

* Everything bad is the fault of Republicans
* Any good from Republicans must be a devious ploy
* Everything good is from the Democrats
* Any bad from the Democrats is either brilliant politicking or the best they can do in the face of evil Republican opposition

It's people like him that cause Democrats to be barely discernable from Republicans.

Anything on topic?

Dunno why I ask. There never is from you.