NSA bugged UN headquarters, listened in on video conferencing

[halik]

I can see Snowden getting props for speaking out on the NSA's spying on US citizens domestically, but he should have kept his mouth shut on the spying on foreign governments.

On a related note, how did Manning demonstrate that the government was violating our rights?

This. Snowden is fucking up, there's nothing even remotely surprising about this and publishing the details doesn't do us any good.

 

[ShagglestheLion]

If you think all this spying is bad, you should wait and c what they, aren't showing you anymore in today's media.

the gov't has to buy out most of mainstream media today to build their renegade of war.

right behind our backs.

 

[monovillage]

NSA spying breaks several treaties that the US has with E.U. and the U.N., I guess the Obama administration violating international law and treaties is perfectly fine with our resident lefties since it's a Democrat administration.

http://www.dailydot.com/news/prism-nsa-government-surveillance-europe-law/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57592169/nsa-spying-ally-anger-justified/

 

[Screech]

Anyone surprised by this has never played civ 5: gods/kings 😉

 

[rudder]

I don't think spying on foreign diplomats is criminal in the slightest. It is, in truth, universal & expected behavior, with all diplomats responsible for exercising due diligence to protect sensitive information. That hasn't changed since ancient times, although the methods have.

Holder isn't responsible for the NSA, either, no matter how badly you want to slander the guy.

I will have to agree with you on this one. Ever since there was such as a thing as diplomatic communications.... Interested parties were there trying to find out what those communications contained.

I think there is anger from posters here against the NSA for their domestic spying programs and it gets intermingled with task the NSA is supposed to accomplish.

 

[unokitty]

I will have to agree with you on this one. Ever since there was such as a thing as diplomatic communications.... Interested parties were there trying to find out what those communications contained.

I think there is anger from posters here against the NSA for their domestic spying programs and it gets intermingled with task the NSA is supposed to accomplish.

Signals Analysis isn't the problem. Lying is...

Just over two weeks ago, Obama made a promise to the world. "The main thing I want to emphasize is that I don't have an interest and the people at the NSA don't have an interest in doing anything other than making sure that (...) we can prevent a terrorist attack," Obama said during a hastily arranged press conference at the White House on August 9. He said the sole purpose of the program was to "get information ahead of time (...) so we are able to carry out that critical task," adding: "We do not have an interest in doing anything other than that." Afterward, the president flew to the Atlantic island of Martha's Vineyard for his summer vacation.

From: How America Spies on Europe and the UN

All foreign interactions are based on trust. When you lie about your information gathering. That is a problem.

When you get caught lying, that is another problem.

That's why Snowden has credibility and Obama doesn't.

Uno

 

[fskimospy]

Signals Analysis isn't the problem. Lying is...



From: How America Spies on Europe and the UN

All foreign interactions are based on trust. When you lie about your information gathering. That is a problem.

When you get caught lying, that is another problem.

That's why Snowden has credibility and Obama doesn't.

Uno

Every country says this, and every country spies on every other country. None of this is surprising to anyone who has any understanding of international relations, and this is in fact not the slightest surprise to any of the countries or organizations targeted.

They might be surprised at the success of our efforts, but not that we are making them. How do you guys not know this.

 

[werepossum]

So, uhh, why did we get Telco immunity retroactively, anyway?

I don't recall anybody like Snowden coming forward at that time, either.

Reality? Bush exceeded the mandate of existing law, while Obama & Congress are complicit in the situation today. Constitutional issues are undecided.

I suppose that's why HOR Repubs are busily repealing the ACA over & over rather than passing a bill to curtail NSA abuses, huh?

Most people would agree that the lack of Snowdens under Bush is not evidence that Bush was worse. Quite the contrary. But do foam on.

This. Snowden is fucking up, there's nothing even remotely surprising about this and publishing the details doesn't do us any good.

Agreed.

Signals Analysis isn't the problem. Lying is...

From: How America Spies on Europe and the UN

All foreign interactions are based on trust. When you lie about your information gathering. That is a problem.

When you get caught lying, that is another problem.

That's why Snowden has credibility and Obama doesn't.

Uno

Agreed, but as Eskimospy says, every nation does this. Getting caught doing it is embarrassing, granted, but I doubt there are any shocked diplomats over this.

 

[fskimospy]

Agreed, but as Eskimospy says, every nation does this. Getting caught doing it is embarrassing, granted, but I doubt there are any shocked diplomats over this.

I seriously think Snowden is fucking up by releasing these things. The NSA spying on Americans without warrants, the lax oversight of that spying, etc? That's a Big Fucking Deal. It was both necessary and courageous of him to show how badly the government is behaving in this category.

The US spying on other countries? No shit. Not only is that not a scandal, that's what I WANT the NSA to be doing. That's their job. This is the same sort of lack of control that Bradley Manning displayed. (not as bad, but the same type)

 

[werepossum]

I seriously think Snowden is fucking up by releasing these things. The NSA spying on Americans without warrants, the lax oversight of that spying, etc? That's a Big Fucking Deal. It was both necessary and courageous of him to show how badly the government is behaving in this category.

The US spying on other countries? No shit. Not only is that not a scandal, that's what I WANT the NSA to be doing. That's their job. This is the same sort of lack of control that Bradley Manning displayed. (not as bad, but the same type)

Agreed, this is a major fuck-up on Snowden's part.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

We don't know about that "much more drastic level", at all. I'm confident that GWB did all he could with the tech available at the time, prior to it being legitimized by Congress. That's what immunity for Telcos was all about.

Which Obama said he'd work to do away with. Oh yeah he lied.

But it is interesting to see who the new Neocons are. Has Wolfowitz had you over to play War with Cheney and Rumsfeld yet? We have many new supporters like you these days.

 

[drebo]

I have no problem with the government spying on other governments.

Our government, however, doesn't seem to be able to keep themselves from spying on its own citizens. That is something I DO have a huge problem with. And if the government can't keep its paws out of its citizens' private affairs, it shouldn't be allowed to spy at all.

 

[Jhhnn]

Most people would agree that the lack of Snowdens under Bush is not evidence that Bush was worse. Quite the contrary. But do foam on.

The fact that there were no Snowdens under Bush just means that there weren't any, nothing more.

The fact that Congress felt the need to provide retroactive immunity to Telcos tells us that Bush exceeded his legal mandate at the time with demands on Telcos. Otherwise, no immunity would have been required.

 

[Jhhnn]

Which Obama said he'd work to do away with. Oh yeah he lied.

But it is interesting to see who the new Neocons are. Has Wolfowitz had you over to play War with Cheney and Rumsfeld yet? We have many new supporters like you these days.

Lied, or was persuaded to see things differently? There is a difference.

I don't support NSA snooping any more than you.

OTOH, there are several relevant points to be made.

1. Congress mandated the current scope & capabilities of NSA activities.

2. If the Admin failed to use them and there was a major terrorist attack, the same voices howling about privacy would be on them like stink on shit.

3. Those same voices were largely silent when the Bush admin engaged in similar activities at a level technology allowed at the time, indicating that this is largely partisan.

4. Online privacy is largely a myth, and has been for a very long time. Our ISP's & credit card companies have enormous amounts of information on file, information that they often sell. If you use the internet at work, your employer can easily monitor that entirely. Tracking cookies infest everybody's computers. The number of hacked boxes is astronomical. The list goes on from there.

5. If you actually want privacy, then you need to work to get it. Some methods are described here-

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/11/tutorial-how-create-anonymous-email-accounts

Yeh, sure, we can argue that it shouldn't be that way, shouldn't be necessary, but that's like arguing that you shouldn't get a sunburn w/o sunblock.

 

[Jhhnn]

Signals Analysis isn't the problem. Lying is...



From: How America Spies on Europe and the UN

All foreign interactions are based on trust. When you lie about your information gathering. That is a problem.

When you get caught lying, that is another problem.

That's why Snowden has credibility and Obama doesn't.

Uno

Dimness. Foreign govts trust each other to lie about spying, same as they trust the sun to come up in the morning. Neither will ever change.

 

[LegendKiller]

NSA spying breaks several treaties that the US has with E.U. and the U.N., I guess the Obama administration violating international law and treaties is perfectly fine with our resident lefties since it's a Democrat administration.

http://www.dailydot.com/news/prism-nsa-government-surveillance-europe-law/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57592169/nsa-spying-ally-anger-justified/

Ohhh gosh no. Not breaking their laws. That's never happened before on this soil.

Wonder how France developed the a-bomb so quickly when nobody would give them plans???

How did Israel do the same???

Nobody tries to spy on our embassies, ever.

You people are amazing. Did you just crawl out of the swamp with a 2nd grade education and no real world experience?

 

[monovillage]

Ohhh gosh no. Not breaking their laws. That's never happened before on this soil.

Wonder how France developed the a-bomb so quickly when nobody would give them plans???

How did Israel do the same???

Nobody tries to spy on our embassies, ever.

You people are amazing. Did you just crawl out of the swamp with a 2nd grade education and no real world experience?

You seem to think it's perfectly OK that the US is breaking it's treaties with foreign nations, so do other people in this forum. Do you feel the same way about this government breaking it's treaties with native Americans ? How can you justify and suppport this lawlessness by the Obama administration, but condemn it in other administrations?

 

[Jhhnn]

Ohhh gosh no. Not breaking their laws. That's never happened before on this soil.

Wonder how France developed the a-bomb so quickly when nobody would give them plans???

How did Israel do the same???

Nobody tries to spy on our embassies, ever.

You people are amazing. Did you just crawl out of the swamp with a 2nd grade education and no real world experience?

Hate-um Obama! just blinds them to everything else.

 

[Jhhnn]

You seem to think it's perfectly OK that the US is breaking it's treaties with foreign nations, so do other people in this forum. Do you feel the same way about this government breaking it's treaties with native Americans ? How can you justify and suppport this lawlessness by the Obama administration, but condemn it in other administrations?

I didn't notice him condemning it by past or future Admins, at all.

You're desperate to drag up events of over 100 years ago, btw.

OTOH, you always seem to be somewhat desperate.

 

[Paul98]

Everyone is spying on everyone else, this is the sort of thing that I would expect to be done. It's the spying and monitoring of huge numbers of american citizens, and on specific ones for personal reasons that I have a huge problem with. Not only that but that so many in our government think it's totally fine and defend this practice.

 

[Brian Stirling]

We've long known about the NSA and other intelligence outfits spying on others and in an uncertain world we have to. What is not acceptable and is in fact a crime against the Constitution, is spying, without warrants, on every single American citizen.

The folks that OK'd this need to be imprisoned for life.

The folks that have allowed it to continue need to be imprisoned for life along with them.

We have a need to know what are adversaries are doing and planning, sadly, our government thinks that includes us -- that we are the adversaries...

Fucking Lincoln must be tuning in his grave -- as well as the hundreds of thousands of Americans that died so that...

that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth


Brian

 

[fskimospy]

You seem to think it's perfectly OK that the US is breaking it's treaties with foreign nations, so do other people in this forum. Do you feel the same way about this government breaking it's treaties with native Americans ? How can you justify and suppport this lawlessness by the Obama administration, but condemn it in other administrations?

lol.

NSA SPYING ON FOREIGN COUNTRIES. SCANDAL. What exactly did you think the NSA was doing with all that money over all those years? Seriously, what the hell did you think was happening? I'm genuinely trying to figure out just how stupid someone has to be that they are caught off guard by this.

I love how the ideology of these idiots makes it so their case is that they are either hypocrites or complete and utter morons. Since Obama is on the opposite political sports team though, they gladly take up the challenge.

 

[fskimospy]

We've long known about the NSA and other intelligence outfits spying on others and in an uncertain world we have to. What is not acceptable and is in fact a crime against the Constitution, is spying, without warrants, on every single American citizen.

The folks that OK'd this need to be imprisoned for life.

The folks that have allowed it to continue need to be imprisoned for life along with them.

We have a need to know what are adversaries are doing and planning, sadly, our government thinks that includes us -- that we are the adversaries...

Fucking Lincoln must be tuning in his grave -- as well as the hundreds of thousands of Americans that died so that...

that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth


Brian

Just an FYI: while I think the spying on Americans without warrants is deplorable, Mr. Lincoln wasn't exactly the world's biggest defender of civil liberties.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Just an FYI: while I think the spying on Americans without warrants is deplorable, Mr. Lincoln wasn't exactly the world's biggest defender of civil liberties.

Spying on American's without warrants is deplorable, it's unconstitutional! IE, against the law!

What civil liberties did Lincoln deny, specifically?


Brian

 

[Jaskalas]

Further proof that Manning and Snowden are heros.

There are particular concerns with the data Manning released, but Harvey, I'd say we are in agreement on principle. Perhaps there's a first time for everything. :wub: