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NRA slams the President over Hypocrisy

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dmens said:
If you believe this country is centrally run and cannot function without the ruling class apparatchiks in DC, then yes your logic is sound. But my question regarding the morality of depriving the plebs the legal ability to provide the same defense with their own money stands.

If you believe this country functions in spite of the meddling thieves and killers in DC, then your statement is crap.
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Nice seeing someone who can out ignorant Incorruptible, but you've done it. No go back to your backwoods trailer park and shut the fuck up.
 
dmens said:
No they can't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

The police provision is meaningless, if a school district cannot find police to patrol their campuses, then by law they cannot hire private armed guards.

Tyranny of the majority argument has nothing to do with $8. As you said, "Well the rest of us think otherwise". It is your belief that a voting majority can impose anything they wish on dissenters, including forcing their taxation for the creation of a billion dollar security mechanism to protect the sanctified bodies of the ruling class. Well guess what? Plenty of people disagree, therefore that taxation is theft imposed by majority rule.

inb4 that is the way things work, because that doesn't make it right.
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I like how you don't even bother to read your own links.

The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 (18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) states:
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license
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Is reading comprehension not taught in Internet Libertopia? You can carry a weapon on the school grounds so long as your weapon is licensed in that state (or in another with a reciprocity agreement). You most certainly can have armed guards. Thanks for playing.

lol.

I like how in your first response you accused me of making a straw man and then try to straw man me just a few posts later. No sense of irony in you, huh.

Taxation is not theft, you are free to leave any time you want. If you don't, it's an implicit acceptance of the terms of living here. There are in fact any number of places you can live in the woods or the mountains, etc and never once encounter the tax man. Life is about choices, so make it.
 
OrByte said:
No one is depriving "the plebs" anything.

so...I don't know what else to tell you...
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Hrm, let's see. In most states, private security guards that cannot prove they are facing constant threats (i.e. school guards) are restricted to .38 Special revolvers, which are practically useless against any assailant with a modern pistol, never mind a full powered rifle. According to the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990, those are the only private guards available to schools besides actual cops (good luck finding enough of those).

Never mind that most schools cannot afford private guards to begin with, and the Obama sneered at the idea. Meanwhile I guarantee you the guards at Obama's school are packing select-fire rifles, subguns and body armor.

Now, if a parent armed with an AR-15 decided to volunteer as a guard, and even if the school deems the parent mentally sound, he will still have to be licensed as a guard and downgraded to a .38 Special.

So yeah, I'd say the plebs are deprived.
 
eskimospy said:
I like how you don't even bother to read your own links.

Is reading comprehension not taught in Internet Libertopia? You can carry a weapon on the school grounds so long as your weapon is licensed in that state (or in another with a reciprocity agreement). You most certainly can have armed guards. Thanks for playing.

lol.

I like how in your first response you accused me of making a straw man and then try to straw man me just a few posts later. No sense of irony in you, huh.

Taxation is not theft, you are free to leave any time you want. If you don't, it's an implicit acceptance of the terms of living here. There are in fact any number of places you can live in the woods or the mountains, etc and never once encounter the tax man. Life is about choices, so make it.
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And yet, teachers with CCL's cannot carry in school. This principal had to fetch his .45 from his truck to stop a shooter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Apparently yet more laws have been passed since 1990 that further restricts guns in schools. Go figure.

So you finally brought out the social contract argument. Guess what. I didn't sign shit.
 
CitizenKain said:
Nice seeing someone who can out ignorant Incorruptible, but you've done it. No go back to your backwoods trailer park and shut the fuck up.
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Yeah, because people with graduate engineering degrees working on microprocessors live in trailer parks.

Keep sucking government dick, maybe Daddy will pat you on the head someday.
 
dmens said:
And yet, teachers with CCL's cannot carry in school. This principal had to fetch his .45 from his truck to stop a shooter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Apparently yet more laws have been passed since 1990 that further restricts guns in schools. Go figure.

So you finally brought out the social contract argument. Guess what. I didn't sign shit.
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Guess what, nobody cares. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't live in a place where you mooch off our services. Your continued acceptance of services others provide is an implicit acceptance. You are not forced to accept these services, there are plenty of places available where none will be provided to you and no taxes expected. If you're being oppressed and stolen from that sounds terrible. If I were you I wouldn't put up with it anymore.

I like how you completely blow by the fact that you were totally wrong and that anyone who spent literally 30 seconds reading the link that you provided yourself would have realized that. Did you stop to think for a minute that if you had thought through that particular argument this poorly that maybe some of your other arguments are shitty as well?
 
eskimospy said:
Guess what, nobody cares. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't live in a place where you mooch off our services. Your continued acceptance of services others provide is an implicit acceptance. You are not forced to accept these services, there are plenty of places available where none will be provided to you and no taxes expected. If you're being oppressed and stolen from that sounds terrible. If I were you I wouldn't put up with it anymore.
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How can I be a mooch when I pay tens of thousands in taxes every year? And guess what? Saying that I use government services is a bullshit argument because the government dictated that they alone can provide those services, thus depriving me of any other alternative.

I like how you completely blow by the fact that you were totally wrong and that anyone who spent literally 30 seconds reading the link that you provided yourself would have realized that. Did you stop to think for a minute that if you had thought through that particular argument this poorly that maybe some of your other arguments are shitty as well?
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See above, Obama still a massive hypocrite, and armed guards are still a huge stretch for any school system.
 
dmens said:
How can I be a mooch when I pay tens of thousands in taxes every year? And guess what? Saying that I use government services is a bullshit argument because the government dictated that they alone can provide those services, thus depriving me of any other alternative.



See above, Obama still a massive hypocrite, and armed guards are still a huge stretch for any school system.
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The right thing to say at this point is 'sorry, i didn't know what I was talking about.'
 
Incorruptible said:
Why cant people understand me?

If obama wants security/SS for his daughters I dont have a problem with it but dont make me pay for it let him pay for it. Why is this so hard to understand?
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Why do want to change the rules for his daughters. What's the matter don't like "their" kind??
 
Damn, dmens is whooping your guys' asses all over the place 😀

Seriously though, this is indefensible. How can you not say that it's not hypocrisy on the President's end?

I personally do not begrudge the President and his family Secret Service protection provided by taxpayers.

And I am in agreement with dmens that should the President, his entire cabinet, and even both houses of congress be assassinated, the country would not be irreparably broken. Others would rise up to fill those vacancies and life would go on..

No one is irreplaceable.

But why can't the children of ordinary families receive similar protection? Who's to say whether an armed guard(s) at Sandy Hook Elementary would not have stopped Adam Lanza and prevented many of the killings on that fateful day?

Granted, armed guards at school isn't the final solution. But it provides a strong deterrent for homicidal maniacs looking for an easy slaughter by targeting a school full of children.
 
Carfax83 said:
But why can't the children of ordinary families receive similar protection? Who's to say whether an armed guard(s) at Sandy Hook Elementary would not have stopped Adam Lanza and prevented many of the killings on that fateful day?

Granted, armed guards at school isn't the final solution. But it provides a strong deterrent for homicidal maniacs looking for an easy slaughter by targeting a school full of children.
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You know how to deter crazy? And you think it's armed guards?

Have you noticed how some of these nutjobs armor up for their rampages? They expect resistance. It's not going to deter anything. When determination is backed up by crazy, good luck preventing whatever they want to accomplish with a single armed guard.

But if you want the president to have a nationwide private army that watches over a vast majority of kids... that's certainly interesting.
 
dmens said:
Yeah, because people with graduate engineering degrees working on microprocessors live in trailer parks.
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Anything is possible.


You fucktards whine about the historical use of Tax Dollars to protect the President and his family but also the tax dollars that go towards protecting dignitaries, senators, cabinet members, etc and their family but you want to spend even more fucking money turning the entire US into a Military Camp.

Bravo!

Like I said before, most days in the US go by with children leaving for and returning from school unharmed. You want armed bouncers at the school doors just in case something *might* happen. This was after we had a forum argument about how often these types of shootings really happen where your side concluded that these were rare events.

so basically, you shit on Obama for "wasting" tax dollars being protected by the SS, but its totally OK for you to come up with some stupid idea to REALLY waste tax dollars.

And for the last time, Sidwell Friend's isn't your ordinary private school. The type of students that attend that school are the children of top level US Governmental employees and alies...so what the hell are you whining about? They're getting the level of protection thats supposed to come with their job.

How often do your kids receive death threats? How often is it that some radical freak nutjob plots to assassinate you? Don't have any answers?
How often have you heard about these same plots against Obama? Immediately after the man was elected the first time, people were up in arms on nutjob forums across the net clinging to their guns and stating they were going to take him out.

Do you and yours have to deal with that on a daily basis? And I just LOVE CarFax's assertion that the President or a member of his family being assassinated wouldn't impact the country at all....
 
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SheHateMe said:
Anything is possible.

You fucktards whine about the historical use of Tax Dollars to protect the President and his family but also the tax dollars that go towards protecting dignitaries, senators, cabinet members, etc and their family but you want to spend even more fucking money turning the entire US into a Military Camp.
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Speak for yourself, I hated the state and the military before, during and after the wars.

As for government apparatchiks getting protection that comes with the job, maybe if the government didn't steal trillions of dollars and murder people at home and abroad, people wouldn't want to assassinate them. They reap what they sow. Fuck if I'll spend a dime to protect those assholes.
 
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dmens said:
Speak for yourself, I hated the state and the military before, during and after the wars.

As for government apparatchiks getting protection that comes with the job, maybe if the government didn't steal trillions of dollars and murder people at home and abroad, people wouldn't want to assassinate them. They reap what they sow. Fuck if I'll spend a dime to protect those assholes.
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You could always move to Canada.

Oh no, you wouldn't like that because they protect their leader too...hmmm, lets see.... the UK? Naw naw....ummm, Germany? Nope. Australia? Oh man, this must be a worldwide conspiracy....
 
SheHateMe said:
You could always move to Canada.

Oh no, you wouldn't like that because they protect their leader too...hmmm, lets see.... the UK? Naw naw....ummm, Germany? Nope. Australia? Oh man, this must be a worldwide conspiracy....
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Let's see the US secret service budget slashed to match those other countries, that'd be a good start. Maybe then Obama will hesitate before using drones to murder kids or signing another bill to steal a trillion dollars from the citizenry.
 
dmens said:
Let's see the US secret service budget slashed to match those other countries, that'd be a good start. Maybe then Obama will hesitate before using drones to murder kids or signing another bill to steal a trillion dollars from the citizenry.
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Why slash their budget so much? You know the Secret Service does more than presidential protection, right? They also are the enforcement arm of the Department of the Treasury, fighting counterfeiting and what-not.

This whole thread is completely off the rails and the NRA's attack is rather baseless.
 
jackstar7 said:
You know how to deter crazy? And you think it's armed guards?

Have you noticed how some of these nutjobs armor up for their rampages? They expect resistance. It's not going to deter anything. When determination is backed up by crazy, good luck preventing whatever they want to accomplish with a single armed guard.

But if you want the president to have a nationwide private army that watches over a vast majority of kids... that's certainly interesting.
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It's more accessorizing and playing dress up trying to be "tacticool" than really anticipating resistance.
 
I want the same health care that the President gets too. When that happens you can have the same protection his children get.
 
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