NPR Fires Liberal News Analyst For Non-PC Nervousness

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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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You act as though the guy was arguing FOR us all to be irrationally afraid of those in traditional Muslim garb and/or encouraging us to act on those feelings, instead of just being honest about his feelings.

Fern
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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No, that's all part of an irrational fear, which supports bigotry. How can you ask people to treat Muslims as equal people with all the rights they have when they view them this way?

The same thing happened with blacks up to the civil rights movement, people's 'discomfort' led them to be happy to support 'separate' space from blacks to stay comfortable.

People talk about right-wing media spreading fear of people like Muslims, this is the result.

And when the NY community center is made an issue, they say 'NO!!!!!' loudly.

There's a quiet hate that feeds on itself, that's something the fear does. It takes standards, saying 'you can't spread this fear', to help improve things and reduce bigotry.

There's a difference between feeling something and acting on it. I would submit that NPR should adopt a "don't ask don't tell" policy.

NPR should be ashamed of itself.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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"National" Public Radio indeed.

hitler.gif
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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PJABBER, I don't believe the fair-use doctrine protects against copying-and-pasting entire articles, and thus your habit of doing so constitutes copyright infringement. I am certainly not an IP lawyer but I'm fairly certain what you're doing is unlawful and could expose our gracious hosts to legal liability.

An interesting comment that should be addressed to the mods.

The first post or so that I did on this forum was going to be locked for lack of a referenced news story. I continued the practice. Longer extracts are provided for those too lazy here to click through to the referenced article, story, book, video, cartoon, whatever, but they don't have to be.

I do quote most or all of the articles I reference as they are the leads into discussion. In some cases it is the article itself that is the point of discussion, sometimes it is the topic the article discusses and other articles can be referenced.

The EFF has some guidelines, there are others.

The Supreme Court has described fair use as "the guarantee of breathing space for new expression within the confines of Copyright law".

3. How Do You Know If It's Fair Use?

There are no clear-cut rules for deciding what's fair use and there are no "automatic" classes of fair uses. Fair use is decided by a judge, on a case by case basis, after balancing the four factors listed in section 107 of the Copyright statute. The factors to be considered include:

  1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes -- Courts are more likely to find fair use where the use is for noncommercial purposes.
  2. The nature of the copyrighted work -- A particular use is more likely to be fair where the copied work is factual rather than creative.
  3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole -- A court will balance this factor toward a finding of fair use where the amount taken is small or insignificant in proportion to the overall work.
  4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work -- If the court finds the newly created work is not a substitute product for the copyrighted work, it will be more likely to weigh this factor in favor of fair use.
4. What's been recognized as fair use?

Courts have previously found that a use was fair where the use of the copyrighted work was socially beneficial. In particular, U.S. courts have recognized the following fair uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.
I am engaged at all times in criticism, commentary, teaching, scholarship, research and parody. My commentary would be considered socially beneficial in a court of law.

And despite accusations to the contrary, I have no commercial gain from my posts and I am growing rich only in karma points as a result of my post count. :awe:
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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You act as though the guy was arguing FOR us all to be irrationally afraid of those in traditional Muslim garb and/or encouraging us to act on those feelings, instead of just being honest about his feelings.

Fern
Doesn't matter. Progressives literally cannot tolerate any independent thinking in women and minorities* because without heavy votes from those groups the progressive agenda is dead. Having feelings or opinions not on the approved list is sufficient for a woman or minority to be targeted for destruction, and while Williams is too well known to be professionally destroyed by the likes of NPR and the mainstream media, they can restrict him to media like FoxNews, where they can paint him as a mouth-breathing conservative. That way at least the spread of his contagion (thinking for himself) can be limited.

* Except Asians. Progressives seem to find Asians difficult to control and tend to treat them like whites.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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What I consider neutral, I'm sure you'll consider it to have a conservative bias.

Truth isn't subjective. If there's a conservative spin, you should be able to recognize that. If I can recognize liberal spin, why can't you do the equivalent?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Truth isn't subjective. If there's a conservative spin, you should be able to recognize that. If I can recognize liberal spin, why can't you do the equivalent?

Congratulations. You have an ability that no other human in the entire history of the species has, the power to convert relatives to an absolute. Gone are nuances, contexts. POOF.

Dear Heavenly Father, when did you first visit the internet?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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One bright spot for NPR, Williams says he was the only black male on the staff. So NPR won't have to face the embarrassment of another black male not knowing his place.

One bright spot for Juan, FoxNews gave him a much bigger role (and contract) now that he is not working primarily for NPR. So he's undoubtedly better off financially, more people will see and hear his views (better for his appearance fees and book sales), and he'll have to work with fewer sanctimonious twits.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
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One bright spot for NPR, Williams says he was the only black male on the staff. So NPR won't have to face the embarrassment of another black male not knowing his place.

One bright spot for Juan, FoxNews gave him a much bigger role (and contract) now that he is not working primarily for NPR. So he's undoubtedly better off financially, more people will see and hear his views (better for his appearance fees and book sales), and he'll have to work with fewer sanctimonious twits.

I am going to mail him a congrats on his new $2 million contract! And then I am going to send him a sympathy card for being ultra-rich and a target for the Dems' plans for confiscatory taxation.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Truth isn't subjective. If there's a conservative spin, you should be able to recognize that. If I can recognize liberal spin, why can't you do the equivalent?

However what you feel has a conservative spin I may find neutral.

I find FoxNews for the most part to be fair and balanced. Exceptions Hannity/Beck over the top conservative and sometimes O'Reilly. I consider Sheppard and Greta left leaning.

I feel that CNN is left leaning and MSNBC is over the top liberal.

Nothing you can say will change my views or feelings.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,912
6,790
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There will doubtless be more to this story. As irritating as Williams was he provided a nice balance to the moderates on the left on NPR. NPR will knuckle under as they always do and move to the right to satisfy Congress and insure their funding and which will always be provided to keep them a friend to government interests.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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It's kind of a shame that you have to take the time to educate those here that just grunt out the party line. Those that don't know who Juan Williams is, what he's accomplished where he's employed and how many different news venues he has and continues to contribute to. I don't always agree with Juan - far from it, but I respect him because he's willing to listen to differing opinions and admits when he is wrong or off base and typically does it with humility.

You have more patience than I do sir. A thread like shows who is really paying attention and who is regurgitating talking points. There are a number of knee-jerk reactions in this thread from people who know nothing of Juan Williams. The mere mention of FOX just gets a Pavlovian response.

He'll do just fine without NPR.

yeah I happen to like Juan Williams quite a bit, lame he got booted. i see nothing wrong with what he said. btw that dude comparing Muslims to Americans of African descent is fucking retarded. Islam is not a "race", it is a belief system that one CHOOSES to follow. One does not choose to be born so how could one choose what they're born as. Idiots.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Juan Williams did issue a statement in response to his firing. It is worth reading in the entirety.

NPR worse than Nixon! OUCH!

JUAN WILLIAMS: I Was Fired for Telling the Truth

By Juan Williams
Published October 21, 2010 | FoxNews.com

Yesterday NPR fired me for telling the truth. The truth is that I worry when I am getting on an airplane and see people dressed in garb that identifies them first and foremost as Muslims.

This is not a bigoted statement. It is a statement of my feelings, my fears after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 by radical Muslims. In a debate with Bill O’Reilly I revealed my fears to set up the case for not making rash judgments about people of any faith. I pointed out that the Atlanta Olympic bomber -- as well as Timothy McVeigh and the people who protest against gay rights at military funerals -- are Christians but we journalists don’t identify them by their religion.

And I made it clear that all Americans have to be careful not to let fears lead to the violation of anyone’s constitutional rights, be it to build a mosque, carry the Koran or drive a New York cab without the fear of having your throat slashed. Bill and I argued after I said he has to take care in the way he talks about the 9/11 attacks so as not to provoke bigotry.

This was an honest, sensitive debate hosted by O’Reilly. At the start of the debate Bill invited me, challenged me to tell him where he was wrong for stating the fact that “Muslims killed us there,” in the 9/11 attacks. He made that initial statement on the ABC program, "The View," which caused some of the co-hosts to walk off the set. They did not return until O’Reilly apologized for not being clear that he did not mean the country was attacked by all Muslims but by extremist radical Muslims.

I took Bill’s challenge and began by saying that political correctness can cause people to become so paralyzed that they don’t deal with reality. And the fact is that it was a group of Muslims who attacked the U.S. I added that radicalism has continued to pose a threat to the United States and much of the world. That threat was expressed in court last week by the unsuccessful Times Square bomber who bragged that he was just one of the first engaged in a “Muslim War” against the United States. -- There is no doubt that there's a real war and people are trying to kill us.

Mary Katharine Ham, a conservative writer, joined the debate to say that it is important to make the distinction between moderate and extreme Islam for conservatives who support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on the premise that the U.S. can build up moderate elements in those countries and push out the extremists. I later added that we don’t want anyone attacked on American streets because “they heard rhetoric from Bill O’Reilly and they act crazy.” Bill agreed and said the man who slashed the cabby was a “nut” and so was the Florida pastor who wanted to burn the Koran.

My point in recounting this debate is to show this was in the best American tradition of a fair, full-throated and honest discourse about the issues of the day. -- There was no bigotry, no crude provocation, no support for anti-Muslim sentiments of any kind.

Two days later, Ellen Weiss, my boss at NPR called to say I had crossed the line, essentially accusing me of bigotry. She took the admission of my visceral fear of people dressed in Muslim garb at the airport as evidence that I am a bigot. She said there are people who wear Muslim garb to work at NPR and they are offended by my comments. She never suggested that I had discriminated against anyone. Instead she continued to ask me what did I mean and I told her I said what I meant. Then she said she did not sense remorse from me. I said I made an honest statement. She informed me that I had violated NPR’s values for editorial commentary and she was terminating my contract as a news analyst.

I pointed out that I had not made my comments on NPR.

She asked if I would have said the same thing on NPR. I said yes, because in keeping with my values I will tell people the truth about feelings and opinions.

I asked why she would fire me without speaking to me face to face and she said there was nothing I could say to change her mind, the decision had been confirmed above her, and there was no point to meeting in person.

To say the least this is a chilling assault on free speech. The critical importance of honest journalism and a free flowing, respectful national conversation needs to be had in our country. But it is being buried as collateral damage in a war whose battles include political correctness and ideological orthodoxy.

I say an ideological battle because my comments on "The O’Reilly Factor" are being distorted by the self-righteous ideological, left-wing leadership at NPR.

They are taking bits and pieces of what I said to go after me for daring to have a conversation with leading conservative thinkers. They loathe the fact that I appear on Fox News. They don’t notice that I am challenging Bill O’Reilly and trading ideas with Sean Hannity. In their hubris they think by talking with O’Reilly or Hannity I am lending them legitimacy. Believe me, Bill O’Reilly (and Sean, too) is a major force in American culture and politics whether or not I appear on his show.

Years ago NPR tried to stop me from going on "The Factor." When I refused they insisted that I not identify myself as an NPR journalist. I asked them if they thought people did not know where I appeared on the air as a daily talk show host, national correspondent and news analyst. They refused to budge.

This self-reverential attitude was on display several years ago when NPR asked me to help them get an interview with President George W. Bush. I have longstanding relationships with some of the key players in his White House due to my years as a political writer at The Washington Post. When I got the interview some in management expressed anger that in the course of the interview I said to the president that Americans pray for him but don’t understand some of his actions. They said it was wrong to say Americans pray for him.

Later on the 50th anniversary of the Little Rock crisis President Bush offered to do an NPR interview with me about race relations in America. NPR management refused to take the interview on the grounds that the White House offered it to me and not their other correspondents and hosts. One NPR executive implied I was in the administration’s pocket, which is a joke, and there was no other reason to offer me the interview. Gee, I guess NPR news executives never read my bestselling history of the civil rights movement “Eyes on the Prize – America’s Civil Rights Years,” or my highly acclaimed biography “Thurgood Marshall –American Revolutionary.” I guess they never noticed that "ENOUGH," my last book on the state of black leadership in America, found a place on the New York Times bestseller list.

This all led to NPR demanding that I either agree to let them control my appearances on Fox News and my writings or sign a new contract that removed me from their staff but allowed me to continue working as a news analyst with an office at NPR. The idea was that they would be insulated against anything I said or wrote outside of NPR because they could say that I was not a staff member. What happened is that they immediately began to cut my salary and diminish my on-air role. This week when I pointed out that they had forced me to sign a contract that gave them distance from my commentary outside of NPR I was cut off, ignored and fired.

And now they have used an honest statement of feeling as the basis for a charge of bigotry to create a basis for firing me. Well, now that I no longer work for NPR let me give you my opinion. This is an outrageous violation of journalistic standards and ethics by management that has no use for a diversity of opinion, ideas or a diversity of staff (I was the only black male on the air). This is evidence of one-party rule and one sided thinking at NPR that leads to enforced ideology, speech and writing. It leads to people, especially journalists, being sent to the gulag for raising the wrong questions and displaying independence of thought.

Daniel Schorr, my fellow NPR commentator who died earlier this year, used to talk about the initial shock of finding himself on President Nixon’s enemies list. I can only imagine Dan’s revulsion to realize that today NPR treats a journalist who has worked for them for ten years with less regard, less respect for the value of independence of thought and embrace of real debate across political lines, than Nixon ever displayed.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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Juan Williams did issue a statement in response to his firing. It is worth reading in the entirety.

NPR worse than Nixon! OUCH!

Sounds like Ellen Weiss is a bitch.

I retract my statement that what he did was foolish. He was saying the same thing I did a week ago and he was completely justified because he was clearly defending normal Muslims.
 
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IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
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so why do we need to use tax payer revenue to fund a knock off of east german soviet propagandist radio??
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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Methinks there's more to this than what's been thrown around in public.

Just for the fact that Williams brought the melodious fragrance (stench) of Fox back to NPR by way of being employed there and therefore also brought the insinuative odor of guilt by association to NPR was more than someone could bear.

And besides, we have persons in this thread actually holding Fox's complete absence of integrity and honesty in the same light as NPR.....AS IF.

Geez, the worn-out tactic of dragging your opponent down into the gutter where Fox just so happens to live and likes to fight from is way beyond old in this forum.

How blinding is that light emanating from Fox anyway? Oh yeah I know...it depends on how long you numbingly stare at it.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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He is not run of the mill.
In fact, he overcame a lot to get the level of recognition that he deserves.

I am particularly impressed that he overcame a highly disadvantaged youth as an immigrant kid growing up in the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood of New York. Bed-Sty was a pit, to put it mildly. A high school scholarship got him out of Bed-Sty and in short order he was president of the student body, editor of the student paper and was captain of the baseball, cross-country and championship basketball team.

You can read about his acclaimed work in the first link I provided.

NPR wants political correctless employees. They are not fair and balanced. Firing Williams, an exemplar for liberals and a personal role model of the highest order, is just another confirmation of this.
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By that criteria, PJIBBERISH should really love Obama, who achieved far higher honors,
somehow Prez of the student body in an bad HS does not come close to touching becoming editor of the law review at the most prestigious law school in the country.

But why is it the going from Rags to riches honor totally morally bankrupt idiots like Nixon, Clarence Thomas, Carl Rove, and Dick Cheney?

As for Juan Williams, he always played Token Liberal on Fox news for the money, and now he has again landed on his feet with a 2 million dollar contract from the most corrupt Fox news network in world history.

Please spare me your thinking Juan Williams ever had any liberal cred, when he done sold out, once again, all the integrity he never had. I stand by my earlier statement that Juan Williams was at best, a run of the mill talking head, because from now on Juan Williams will be nothing more than another sold out media whore who never learned anything from his childhood.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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Another casualty of the political correctness disease.... Is it any surprise that NPR is garbage?

NPR is not garbage. It is tenfold better than the sludge you undoubtedly imbibe on a daily basis.

That said, this was a horrible decision on the part of NPR management. PC at its worst.

- wolf
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,139
236
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1) as others have said there are always two sides to every story. Who know what other events may have been leading up to this...

2) I wonder how long rush would have lasted on NPR. hahaha 1 day? Half a day?