NOW Hillary is against the war

[ProfJohn]

Hillary is in HUGE trouble when it comes to getting the nomination.
Obama is getting all the great press and Hillary is being forced to change her Iraq stance over and over.
The more she changes her stance the harder it becomes to believe anything she says. This is a HUGE problem since it will remind people of her husband and his ever changing promises on a variety of topics. Bill was amazing at pandering to a crowd, but he had charisma and charm and Hillary has neither.

What is utterly amazing in the following piece if her "If I had been president in October of 2002, I would not have started this war." statement. Hillary, everyone knows you voted FOR the war. You approved of it and talked strongly about it. How can you now say you would not have started it? If you were against starting it in 2002 then you should have voted against it. Pretty simple right?

On a side note: read the link and look at the power the anti-war people seem to have on the Democratic Party right now. They are going to push the party farther and farther to the left in the next year. It is quite possible that by 2008 the Democratic Party will be THE anti-war party and nothing else. If the Democrats only criteria for nominating a President becomes their stance on the war this could really hurt them in a general election when other topics come into play. There is certainly a growing unhappiness with the war and the manner in which it is being run. However, all it would take is a strong articulate Republican candidate who can frame the issue in the right way and the anti-war movement could lose its already limited mass appeal. (Note: even today the ?pull out immediately? answer only gets 12-20% on most polls.)

Link

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday she would not have attacked Iraq if she were president in 2002 and would end the war if elected, as she tried to blunt rivals like John Edwards who are stoking anti-war passions in the Democratic Party.
Clinton, raising her voice at one point to be heard above anti-war hecklers, suggested that calls from Edwards and others to cut off funding for President Bush's troop increase are unlikely to win approval in a narrowly divided Senate.
"Believe me, I understand the frustration and the outrage," Clinton said in a speech to the Democratic National Committee meeting that brought the party's nine White House hopefuls together for the first time. "You have to have 60 votes to cap troops, to limit funding to do anything. If we in Congress don't end this war before January 2009, as president, I will."

 

[conjur]

uh, fyi, poofer. Anti-war does not equate to moving "farther and farther to the left".

Reign in that BS rhetoric for once, eh?

 

[daniel49]

I don't know, but she does have experience dealing with evil and wicked men...snicker*

 

[Tab]

Yea...

I don't like Hilary much, I don't like McCain and I really just don't like anyone running for office. So, who do I vote for?

 

[Red Dawn]

It seems that Hillary along with the rest of the nation was caught up in the hysteria of 911 and couldn't fathom the Dub fscking up as bad as he did with the BS Intel, his invasion and subsequent occupation of that sh!thole. I'm sure if she knew how bad the Dub would have fscked up this whole thing she would have never voted the way she did and neither would a vast majority of lawmakers of either party.

 

[ntdz]

Hillary says whatever is politically convenient...I really can't stand her.

 

[eilute]

That's why I'd rather Obama, or Gore. The Democrats should not nominate another flip flopper.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Hillary says whatever is politically convenient...I really can't stand her.

Wait... Wait... Wait...

You mean she is a politician?

Could you give us some examples ntdz? Or have you still not lfigured out how to write paragraphs?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Hillary says whatever is politically convenient...I really can't stand her.

Yeah, she always trying to see which way the wind is blowing. She's also trying to stay in the middle of the road. Well, those in the middle of the road are the first to get run over.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: ntdz
Hillary says whatever is politically convenient...I really can't stand her.

Wait... Wait... Wait...

You mean she is a politician?

Could you give us some examples ntdz? Or have you still not lfigured out how to write paragraphs?

Are you really asking for examples of Hillary doing whatever suits her political agenda? Even most on the left agree with this, where have you been for the last 15 years?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Hillary says whatever is politically convenient...I really can't stand her.

Bush is best right?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ntdz
Hillary says whatever is politically convenient...I really can't stand her.

Bush is best right?

What does this thread have to do with Bush?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
It seems that Hillary along with the rest of the nation was caught up in the hysteria of 911 and couldn't fathom the Dub fscking up as bad as he did with the BS Intel, his invasion and subsequent occupation of that sh!thole. I'm sure if she knew how bad the Dub would have fscked up this whole thing she would have never voted the way she did and neither would a vast majority of lawmakers of either party.

Except that's not how she came about.

It wasn't until her recent (in the last week or two) trip to Iraq that she decided to be against increasing troop levels and begin talking about ending our involvement in Iraq.

But, it's ok she won't rule out use of force to stop 'pro-terrorist' Iran

:roll:


Plus, I believe she's the #2 recipient in campaign donations from that criminal element: AIPAC

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: conjur
uh, fyi, poofer. Anti-war does not equate to moving "farther and farther to the left".

Reign in that BS rhetoric for once, eh?

Don't count on it. His MO is BS rhetoric.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: eilute
That's why I'd rather Obama, or Gore. The Democrats should not nominate another flip flopper.

Flip flopper?" Does "Stay the course" and then "We never said stay the course..." ring any bells?

Besides, they all voted for it. People change their minds. I supported the Iraq invasion, 'til I found out I was lied to. Then I didn't support it. See how this works?

 

[Craig234]

What is utterly amazing in the following piece if her "If I had been president in October of 2002, I would not have started this war." statement. Hillary, everyone knows you voted FOR the war. You approved of it and talked strongly about it. How can you now say you would not have started it? If you were against starting it in 2002 then you should have voted against it. Pretty simple right?

Let's correct the fictitious history from ProfJohn.

Hillary did not vote "for the war". She voted for the president to get the leverage he asked for to get inspectors back in by letting him threaten war if they were not allowed in. Bush told Congress that the vote *was not for war*.

Bush lied - not by knowing for sure there were no WMD, but by saying the vote was only to get the inspectors back in and if they got in he'd let them check and war would only be if they were prevented. Instead, he kicked the inspectors out and invaded.

From her vote for the war authorization:

Over eleven years have passed since the UN called on Saddam Hussein to rid himself of weapons of mass destruction as a condition of returning to the world community. Time and time again he has frustrated and denied these conditions. This matter cannot be left hanging forever with consequences we would all live to regret. War can yet be avoided, but our responsibility to global security and to the integrity of United Nations resolutions protecting it cannot. I urge the President to spare no effort to secure a clear, unambiguous demand by the United Nations for unlimited inspections...

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

Here's what she said a year after the invasion:

"Obviously, I've thought about that a lot in the months since," she said. "No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade."

But she said the Bush administration's short-circuiting of the U.N. weapons inspection process didn't permit "the inspectors to finish whatever task they could have accomplished to demonstrate one way or the other what was there."

 

[dphantom]

Well, she had a great teacher for 8 years so I am not surprised and neither should anyone else. Whatever is convenient atr the time, whcih way the polls blow and damn the moral consequences of actually taking a principled stand and maintaining it thru any popularity swings, ... well you won't find it in the Clintons and most other politicians in either party.

 

[dphantom]

Well, she had a great teacher for 8 years so I am not surprised and neither should anyone else. Whatever is convenient atr the time, whcih way the polls blow and damn the moral consequences of actually taking a principled stand and maintaining it thru any popularity swings, ... well you won't find it in the Clintons and most other politicians in either party.

 

[magomago]

soo...basically she is doing everything that all politicians do?
For the war in case its successful, and then against it after it occurs if things get crappy.
If I recall correctly the democrats wanted to push for intervention in places under Clinton. However, the republicans were lobbying against that

and now have the exact opposite occurring....

why does this seem special to you? Its politics as usual

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Topic Titlep: NOW Hillary is against the war.
Topic Summary: Does anyone actually believe her?

It could be worse. She could still be among the morons trying to cling to the idea that the war was a good idea. :shocked:

At least she's capable of learning something. Whether it's too little or too late to save her own crediblity is a matter for Democratic voters to decide in the primaries.

 

[GeneValgene]

obama ftw!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ntdz
Hillary says whatever is politically convenient...I really can't stand her.

Bush is best right?

What does this thread have to do with Bush?

Everything because all you Bush lovers are looking for a Bush replacement and you sure don't want it to be Billary.

 

[jpeyton]

Proffy is right, Hillary should stay the course on Iraq. :laugh:

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: ntdz
Hillary says whatever is politically convenient...I really can't stand her.

Wait... Wait... Wait...

You mean she is a politician?

Could you give us some examples ntdz? Or have you still not lfigured out how to write paragraphs?

Are you really asking for examples of Hillary doing whatever suits her political agenda? Even most on the left agree with this, where have you been for the last 15 years?

I asking what she does is so different than any other person involved in politics. As for the last fifteen years I've been ignoring the whole "left vs right" right crowd.

 

[Balt]

Getting the nomination won't be the biggest problem for Hillary. As Chris Matthews repeatedly points out, all she has to do is get the women to vote for her while the numerous male candidates all fight over and divide the rest of the votes.

In the general election I don't believe she even has a prayer, though. Pandering to women (like with her "my husband was an evil, bad man" joke) will not help her get the male vote and most conservative women would never vote for her. I don't think the 2008 election is even going to be decided by Iraq if Hillary is nominated, to be honest. I think even McCain stands a better chance of winning, and he's still hawkish.

Edit- However:

What is utterly amazing in the following piece if her "If I had been president in October of 2002, I would not have started this war." statement. Hillary, everyone knows you voted FOR the war. You approved of it and talked strongly about it. How can you now say you would not have started it? If you were against starting it in 2002 then you should have voted against it. Pretty simple right?

What she says is probably true, though I don't think people will care. If she had been President, she wouldn't have started the war because:
1) She wouldn't have pressured intelligence agencies to give her scraps of questionable information and ignored things that didn't support it like Bush did. Bush had already decided he was going to invade Iraq, he just needed someone to reinforce his decision with some "evidence" so he could sell it to the masses.
2) She could have given the UN inspectors more time. Bush decided not to because the weather was getting hot and he didn't want to wait another year to wage his war.
3) She wouldn't have had Dick Cheney as a Vice President.