Does anyone actually realize anymore that the UN is not just the Security Council? When speaking about the UN assuming roles in the creation of a new government, it's talking about the entire UN General Assembly, not just the Security Council. Just because three members of the Security Council didn't support the premise of the war doesn't mean that the entire UN is suddenly suspect.
Those countries who wanted to have nothing to do with the war should have nothing to do with rebuilding Iraq. Why would France or Russia want to help rebuild? Are they going to SPEND money helping rebuild, or do they want to MAKE money doing the rebuilding?
Those who spilled their blood fighting in this war should have the say over those who did nothing.
Those who stayed on the sidelines when there was blood being shed, should REMAIN on the sidelines when the bloodshed is over.
Those who spilled their blood fighting in this war should have the say over those who did nothing.
Those who stayed on the sidelines when there was blood being shed, should REMAIN on the sidelines when the bloodshed is over.
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
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In the end, it is the Iraqui people's oil and work that will be paying for the rebuilding of the country. They will make more and more decisions on what will be done and who will get the contracts.
There will be a time (I'm guessing at least 2 years) where a provisional government will be in place. It will be a joint Iraq/Coalition government, but it will be appointed, not elected. This government will be making the big decisions on who does the rebuilding. Most infrastructure programs are not compatible with other options. France and Germany are worried that their companies will be shut out in the early decisions that will set the course for the next 5 - 10 years. They should be worried because that is exactly what will happen.
The Coalition tax payers will bear the burden of the direct cost of the war. I don't think that Iraq will be paying for the Coalition deployments. However, Iraq will be paying to rebuild what was blown up.
The US and British need to stay there until Iraq has a real Army and police force again. They need to because Iran and Syria would be more than happy to grab the oil reserves and Turkey shouldn't be counted out as well.
Michael
There will be a time (I'm guessing at least 2 years) where a provisional government will be in place. It will be a joint Iraq/Coalition government, but it will be appointed, not elected. This government will be making the big decisions on who does the rebuilding. Most infrastructure programs are not compatible with other options. France and Germany are worried that their companies will be shut out in the early decisions that will set the course for the next 5 - 10 years. They should be worried because that is exactly what will happen.
The Coalition tax payers will bear the burden of the direct cost of the war. I don't think that Iraq will be paying for the Coalition deployments. However, Iraq will be paying to rebuild what was blown up.
The US and British need to stay there until Iraq has a real Army and police force again. They need to because Iran and Syria would be more than happy to grab the oil reserves and Turkey shouldn't be counted out as well.
Michael
We shouldn't make any money. If we're gonna do this right, which I still doubt, we need to put ALL of the money back to the people of Iraq, not just the guys running the oil. First we need to get the basics there. Food, Water, Medical Supplies. After that, a massive reconstruction will have to occur to bring buildings up to code. At the same time, government programs and schools will have to be rebuilt and funded. At the same time, extreme tolerance for thier culture and religions will also have to be shown. If we go in there and make a bunch of cash out of this, its going to leave a big sh!t stain over the whole operation.
Red Dawn
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- Jun 4, 2001
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Russia being at odds with us for so long should be forgiven for not supporting us. Germany being a Pacifist nation since WW2 has an excuse but there's no excuse for the Frogs. I think to really piss them off and show them how irrelevant they are in the world we should let the Germans and Russians take part in the rebuilding of Iraq but totally bar those cheese eating monkeys from having anything to do with it. In fact France should be replaced as a permanent member of the Security Council by a much more relevant country like Japan.
The French do not matter. Period. They can send food, medicine, and money, but they will not be involved in the rebuilding of Iraq because quite simply they wanted Saddam to remain in power. Once that is widely known in Iraq, I wouldn't want to be driving around in a Renault (well, I wouldn't want to drive a Renault in any case but that's different).
I don't like abortion, I don't like 'Hollywood' values, and I definately think we need to enforce some sort of moral (if not religious) values in our public schools, but I'd HATE to identify as a conservative. This pompous, self-righteous attitude some of the neo-conservatives have sickens me, and I hate that we're now using this in our foreign policy. Everytime I hear Bush speak about 'WMD' and 'terrorism' and 'Sah-dum' I feel like I'm being strung along in some hype circus and I feel dumber for having listened to him. The very least he could do is maintain a consistent message about what the hell we plan to do in Iraq and what our goal is for post-war Iraq when we're done.
Quite unlike your pompous, self-righteous attitude, eh?
I don't like abortion, I don't like 'Hollywood' values, and I definately think we need to enforce some sort of moral (if not religious) values in our public schools, but I'd HATE to identify as a conservative. This pompous, self-righteous attitude some of the neo-conservatives have sickens me, and I hate that we're now using this in our foreign policy. Everytime I hear Bush speak about 'WMD' and 'terrorism' and 'Sah-dum' I feel like I'm being strung along in some hype circus and I feel dumber for having listened to him. The very least he could do is maintain a consistent message about what the hell we plan to do in Iraq and what our goal is for post-war Iraq when we're done.
Quite unlike your pompous, self-righteous attitude, eh?
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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Actually I don't see Bush as a Neo Conservative unlike Wolfowitz and the rest of those Neo Neanderthal Dregs in the State Department. That doesn't mean that some of their ideas aren't on the mark, you just have to differentiate their sound ideas from their lunancy and ignore their lunacy.
Holy Sh!te batman.
Red and I agree on something. Bahhh, it happens once in a while.
I don't understand how the incompotent frogs got permannent membership on the SC in the first place.
Somebody splain that to me.
Let's see now, World War II ended when? And US Forces are still stationed where? And there is some reason to believe that things are going to be different this time?
I don't think I would be willing to bet on that.
I don't think I would be willing to bet on that.
As a part of NATO and at the host countries request and permission. The German government had a full on hissy fit when the US NATO commander suggested we don't need our bases there anymore. I say if they want us to leave then lets leave and spend the money on something else worthwhile, like a downpayment on kicking North Korea's ass.
People talk like the US will some how "Make Money" from this...
How, exactly? We are spending billions on waging this war. We will spend billions on helping to rebuild the country. Do you think that Saddam or some of his henchmen are going to popup and offer to spend some of their money to do the rebuilding? No, it is those of us in the USA that actually have a job and are actually paying taxes that will fund these efforts. And why should we hand this money over to a French company? I can't believe there is a French company more qualified than an American competitor, and even if there was, I would prefer to spend my tax dollars in America, to pay salaries to American workers.
The US is the kindest most generous nation in the entire world, and yet some of the world and some of our own people resent us for our efforts.
How, exactly? We are spending billions on waging this war. We will spend billions on helping to rebuild the country. Do you think that Saddam or some of his henchmen are going to popup and offer to spend some of their money to do the rebuilding? No, it is those of us in the USA that actually have a job and are actually paying taxes that will fund these efforts. And why should we hand this money over to a French company? I can't believe there is a French company more qualified than an American competitor, and even if there was, I would prefer to spend my tax dollars in America, to pay salaries to American workers.
The US is the kindest most generous nation in the entire world, and yet some of the world and some of our own people resent us for our efforts.
When the Iraqi people realize that the French, German, Russian, and Chineese supported and supplied Saddam I don't think they will be influenced to much. They know that the US and UK has faith in the people and are willing to take the guidence from them.
Who's pissing????
Anyway, you better believe we want to take part in rebuilding Iraq, what are you smoking? Didn't we just spend 70 Billion to support the war and rebuilding Iraq? Aren't we currently still fighting to achieve the iraqis freedom? Didn't we lose a lot of lives in that process, to liberate a country? By a lot of lives I mean 1-so on, because to me one life lost is a big deal. Yes, it is up to the iraqis to step up and take ownership of their new found freedom, but come on. We want to establish a democratic process in a country that has never seen it. Duh, of course we should assist in that, being that we are (I'm sorry to say this, but it's true) the best example the world has of a somewhat decent democratic government. Trust me, they need the help, don't be so ready to think they can just do this on their own.
On that note too, keep Russia, France, and the UN the hell out of it. We did the fighting, dieing, and liberating, I'm quite certain we can handle rebuilding and establishing an iraqi government that works for the people. Believe it or not, our government works and is a good example for others to follow. It may not be the best and I know that, but it is the best example!
Could be me pissing now, I guess... perceived that way, but I'm not.
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
So it really is all about making money in the end? :|
Thanks for the clarification...couldn't see past Bush's smoke and mirrors until a fellow conservative cleared that up for me. Ironic how conservatives deny the war is about money and then furrow their brows at those money-grubbing bastards in France, Germany and Russia. How dare they try to profit from our liberation movement!
I don't like abortion, I don't like 'Hollywood' values, and I definately think we need to enforce some sort of moral (if not religious) values in our public schools, but I'd HATE to identify as a conservative. This pompous, self-righteous attitude some of the neo-conservatives have sickens me, and I hate that we're now using this in our foreign policy. Everytime I hear Bush speak about 'WMD' and 'terrorism' and 'Sah-dum' I feel like I'm being strung along in some hype circus and I feel dumber for having listened to him. The very least he could do is maintain a consistent message about what the hell we plan to do in Iraq and what our goal is for post-war Iraq when we're done.
How are we as a country going to MAKE money in this whole thing? You keep saying MAKE, but we will MAKE nothing.
Exactly is right, I would like to know too. The way I see it is we've already invested 70 something Billion dollars with a no-refund, no return on that. How exactly are we making money on this war, or after it?
To entertain the thought though... mind you this is not a justification. To entertain it though, even if we do make a profit somehow after this war, how long would it take to earn back our 70 billion? That is not counting what we spend years from now rebuilding their country either, so how are we going to make money from this? We aren't, we don't need too!
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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That 70 Billion was an investment for our security. A Free Pro US Independant Iraq will not only benefit America but the Middle East. The Iraqi's are for the most part educated and Industrious People. Without the threat of Hussien over their heads they should prosper and become a great Center for Arab Culture and Economics. With the wealth of their oil they should be able to accomplish great things. Who knows, they may become of of the leading countries in the wold in the latter half of this century and become a Model for Arab Advancement.Originally posted by: Paveslave
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
So it really is all about making money in the end? :|
Thanks for the clarification...couldn't see past Bush's smoke and mirrors until a fellow conservative cleared that up for me. Ironic how conservatives deny the war is about money and then furrow their brows at those money-grubbing bastards in France, Germany and Russia. How dare they try to profit from our liberation movement!
I don't like abortion, I don't like 'Hollywood' values, and I definately think we need to enforce some sort of moral (if not religious) values in our public schools, but I'd HATE to identify as a conservative. This pompous, self-righteous attitude some of the neo-conservatives have sickens me, and I hate that we're now using this in our foreign policy. Everytime I hear Bush speak about 'WMD' and 'terrorism' and 'Sah-dum' I feel like I'm being strung along in some hype circus and I feel dumber for having listened to him. The very least he could do is maintain a consistent message about what the hell we plan to do in Iraq and what our goal is for post-war Iraq when we're done.
How are we as a country going to MAKE money in this whole thing? You keep saying MAKE, but we will MAKE nothing.
Exactly is right, I would like to know too. The way I see it is we've already invested 70 something Billion dollars with a no-refund, no return on that. How exactly are we making money on this war, or after it?
To entertain the thought though... mind you this is not a justification. To entertain it though, even if we do make a profit somehow after this war, how long would it take to earn back our 70 billion? That is not counting what we spend years from now rebuilding their country either, so how are we going to make money from this? We aren't, we don't need too!
While that utopian thought sounds all good and dandy, I don't think anyone in the middle east will be a "leading country" in the world as long as they're controlled by fundamentalist Islamism. I think that prevents them from thinking outside the box and innovating. They are too stuck on their past to be thinking of the future. Just look over there, many still dress the same way they did hundreds of years ago. They had a pretty advanced civilization thousands of years ago so it's not like they got a late start. They're just too controlled by their religion, much like Europe was controlled by the church in the Dark Ages.
I think if they preach a more moderate religion they'd make greater strides in technology, but as long as they live completely humbled by their religion I don't see them doing much.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
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Because of the make up of the Iraqi Populace I doubt that a Theocratic style Democracy would exist there. Even thought the Shiites make up the majority the Sunni and the Kurds are large Minorities. In fact the Autonomous Kurdish Government in the north has been a successful Secular Democratic Government with Kurds of the Sunni, Shiite and other sects of Islam manning it.
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