Now Cuba Handled Hurricanes and Evacuation

[fornax]

Some food for thought:

In 2001, hurricane Michelle hit Cuba with sustained 125-mile-per-hour winds and widespread floods. Nearly 700,000 people were evacuated and only five people lost their lives.

In 2004, Cuba was hit by Ivan, the fifth-largest hurricane ever to hit the Caribbean. More than 100,000 residents were evacuated within the first three hours. Altogether nearly 2 million people (more than 15 percent of the total population) were evacuated. Even animals and birds were moved. No one was killed. The UN declared this to be a model of disaster preparation.

And this in a country starved by sanctions and blockades. I seems to me that Bush should fire the whole FEMA leadership starting with Brown and ask the Cubans to send a team of prepared disaster management professionals over here.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: fornax
Some food for thought:

In 2001, hurricane Michelle hit Cuba with sustained 125-mile-per-hour winds and widespread floods. Nearly 700,000 people were evacuated and only five people lost their lives.

In 2004, Cuba was hit by Ivan, the fifth-largest hurricane ever to hit the Caribbean. More than 100,000 residents were evacuated within the first three hours. Altogether nearly 2 million people (more than 15 percent of the total population) were evacuated. Even animals and birds were moved. No one was killed. The UN declared this to be a model of disaster preparation.

And this in a country starved by sanctions and blockades. I seems to me that Bush should fire the whole FEMA leadership starting with Brown and ask the Cubans to send a team of prepared disaster management professionals over here.

Can we sink Cuba below sea level and surround it with levees first, just to make the comparison is apples to apples?

 

[bamacre]

I wish we could be more like Cuba.

 

[Warthog912]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: fornax
Some food for thought:

In 2001, hurricane Michelle hit Cuba with sustained 125-mile-per-hour winds and widespread floods. Nearly 700,000 people were evacuated and only five people lost their lives.

In 2004, Cuba was hit by Ivan, the fifth-largest hurricane ever to hit the Caribbean. More than 100,000 residents were evacuated within the first three hours. Altogether nearly 2 million people (more than 15 percent of the total population) were evacuated. Even animals and birds were moved. No one was killed. The UN declared this to be a model of disaster preparation.

And this in a country starved by sanctions and blockades. I seems to me that Bush should fire the whole FEMA leadership starting with Brown and ask the Cubans to send a team of prepared disaster management professionals over here.

Can we sink Cuba below sea level and surround it with levees first, just to make the comparison is apples to apples?

Very valid point. However, the OP has a point as well.

On second thought, TWO valid points without Flames. Who'da'thunk'ed it?

 

[luigi1]

Flame, Flame. Not at anybody its just...well its P&N . So flame. And ya, Its almost a given that a dictatorship is gonna have more control than a demoacratcy. If you tell an american what to do hes likely to do just the oppisate. We call that freedom and we cherish it.

 

[T3C]

Yeah, But when they told people to leave guess what, THEY DID. When we tell people to leave the city they say, no I think I will be fine.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Warthog912

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: fornax
Some food for thought:

In 2001, hurricane Michelle hit Cuba with sustained 125-mile-per-hour winds and widespread floods. Nearly 700,000 people were evacuated and only five people lost their lives.

In 2004, Cuba was hit by Ivan, the fifth-largest hurricane ever to hit the Caribbean. More than 100,000 residents were evacuated within the first three hours. Altogether nearly 2 million people (more than 15 percent of the total population) were evacuated. Even animals and birds were moved. No one was killed. The UN declared this to be a model of disaster preparation.

And this in a country starved by sanctions and blockades. I seems to me that Bush should fire the whole FEMA leadership starting with Brown and ask the Cubans to send a team of prepared disaster management professionals over here.

Can we sink Cuba below sea level and surround it with levees first, just to make the comparison is apples to apples?

Very valid point. However, the OP has a point as well.

Again, it's a fairly superficial observation. iirc, Ivan went over western Cuba, a relatively sparesely populated area and they had plenty of advance warning. The problems in NO came from the flooding, not the hurricane winds or storm surge.

But, hey. Castro for Mayor of NOLA! I'm down with it. 😉

 

[EagleKeeper]

Experience also comes into play.

Cuba gets belted 3-4 times a year. They have learned what can be done by Mother Nature.

People in the Gulf get hit once a lifetime. And many people who survive once will feel cocky that theycan survive anything.

Attitude problem of the people.

 

[Beowulf]

What about Hurricane Dennis in 2005 which was worse then Flora when it hit Cuba...my parents lived during Flora in '63.Granted only 16 ppl died in Dennis but it managed to knock out 85% of Cuba's power infact I have family members still without electricity.The whole power problem in Cuba has lead to the recent uprising in dissidents and crackdown on em.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: fornax
Some food for thought:

In 2001, hurricane Michelle hit Cuba with sustained 125-mile-per-hour winds and widespread floods. Nearly 700,000 people were evacuated and only five people lost their lives.

In 2004, Cuba was hit by Ivan, the fifth-largest hurricane ever to hit the Caribbean. More than 100,000 residents were evacuated within the first three hours. Altogether nearly 2 million people (more than 15 percent of the total population) were evacuated. Even animals and birds were moved. No one was killed. The UN declared this to be a model of disaster preparation.

And this in a country starved by sanctions and blockades. I seems to me that Bush should fire the whole FEMA leadership starting with Brown and ask the Cubans to send a team of prepared disaster management professionals over here.

First of all, Ivan was on a clear path and direction from day 1. We knew where it was heading. Katrina took one heck of a leap over from a likely landfall over the Florida / Georgia border to make its way into the gulf. So telling me we had plenty of time to evacuate 2 million people across the entire northern gulf coast, is something I find ridiculous.

Second, Cuba owns its people. They likely didn?t have a choice when it came to evacuating, where as in the USA things are the opposite. We cannot remove people even if we can guarantee to them that they will die. Then you have to consider how many people had to be moved and evacuated. 1.3 million for New Orleans and its surrounding suburbs alone.

Then we ARE talking about the southern states here. Where poverty is overwhelming. Even if people wanted to get out, many couldn?t. I agree that FEMA should be able to help those people ahead of time, but just what could we have done in Katrina?s situation? It was never before seen in scale and came quickly without a lot of warning.

The government, including Bush, warned people to get out. MANY people in the area never believed they were in danger, and mock the idea of a storm wiping them out. Sort of like chicken little after Ivan didn?t destroy everything. Should we move those people out at gun point?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I wish we could be more like Cuba.

in handling a hurricane or changing our lifestyle to that of Cuba's?

i think Cuba lives directly in the path of many of these hurricanes and has no choice but to make the best judgments. it also has had a lot of experience. as for the UN praising Cuba, whats new? rogue nations like Cuba always get praised by the UN

also, Cuba is not at the same elevation as New Orleans or other places in the gulf.

also people in the US always think they are immune to these type of things. hopefully we have learned a valuable lesson

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: fornax
Some food for thought:

In 2001, hurricane Michelle hit Cuba with sustained 125-mile-per-hour winds and widespread floods. Nearly 700,000 people were evacuated and only five people lost their lives.

In 2004, Cuba was hit by Ivan, the fifth-largest hurricane ever to hit the Caribbean. More than 100,000 residents were evacuated within the first three hours. Altogether nearly 2 million people (more than 15 percent of the total population) were evacuated. Even animals and birds were moved. No one was killed. The UN declared this to be a model of disaster preparation.

And this in a country starved by sanctions and blockades. I seems to me that Bush should fire the whole FEMA leadership starting with Brown and ask the Cubans to send a team of prepared disaster management professionals over here.

First of all, Ivan was on a clear path and direction from day 1. We knew where it was heading. Katrina took one heck of a leap over from a likely landfall over the Florida / Georgia border to make its way into the gulf. So telling me we had plenty of time to evacuate 2 million people across the entire northern gulf coast, is something I find ridiculous.

Second, Cuba owns its people. They likely didn?t have a choice when it came to evacuating, where as in the USA things are the opposite. We cannot remove people even if we can guarantee to them that they will die. Then you have to consider how many people had to be moved and evacuated. 1.3 million for New Orleans and its surrounding suburbs alone.

Then we ARE talking about the southern states here. Where poverty is overwhelming. Even if people wanted to get out, many couldn?t. I agree that FEMA should be able to help those people ahead of time, but just what could we have done in Katrina?s situation? It was never before seen in scale and came quickly without a lot of warning.

The government, including Bush, warned people to get out. MANY people in the area never believed they were in danger, and mock the idea of a storm wiping them out. Sort of like chicken little after Ivan didn?t destroy everything. Should we move those people out at gun point?

Saturday, August 27

At 10am, the National Hurricane Centre issues a hurricane warning for the "southeastern coast of Louisiana... including metropolitan New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrain." Forecasters predict that the storm will make landfall a fraction to the east of New Orleans on either Monday or Tuesday.

The forecast was accurate many many hours before the storm made landfall. The bolded forecast was made on the 27th. Katrina came ashore on the 29th. What were you saying again?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: bamacre
I wish we could be more like Cuba.

in handling a hurricane or changing our lifestyle to that of Cuba's?

i think Cuba lives directly in the path of many of these hurricanes and has no choice but to make the best judgments. it also has had a lot of experience. as for the UN praising Cuba, whats new? rogue nations like Cuba always get praised by the UN

also, Cuba is not at the same elevation as New Orleans or other places in the gulf.

also people in the US always think they are immune to these type of things. hopefully we have learned a valuable lesson

You may need a new sarcasm meter 😉

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: bamacre
I wish we could be more like Cuba.

in handling a hurricane or changing our lifestyle to that of Cuba's?

i think Cuba lives directly in the path of many of these hurricanes and has no choice but to make the best judgments. it also has had a lot of experience. as for the UN praising Cuba, whats new? rogue nations like Cuba always get praised by the UN

also, Cuba is not at the same elevation as New Orleans or other places in the gulf.

also people in the US always think they are immune to these type of things. hopefully we have learned a valuable lesson

You may need a new sarcasm meter 😉

doh 😱

:lips:

 

[Jaskalas]

You're telling me we had two days of warning for the impact, and using it to refute my opinion that we didn't have enough time? I remember Ivan as the top story in the news for over a week before it hit.

What on earth makes you think over two million people from all over the gulf region can be evacuated in two days? Or that they would even want to move? Before Katrina you?d easily find people down there mocking incoming storms.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
You're telling me we had two days of warning for the impact, and using it to refute my opinion that we didn't have enough time? I remember Ivan as the top story in the news for over a week before it hit.

What on earth makes you think over two million people from all over the gulf region can be evacuated in two days? Or that they would even want to move? Before Katrina you?d easily find people down there mocking incoming storms.

The Gulf region.... Make sense. Who's talking about the entire "Gulf Region"? Where did most of the deaths occur? In the "Gulf Region"? Stop dodging. You tried to say the storm veered at the last minute. It did not. The eye was within 30 miles of the estimated location. How much more warning should we have. When a terrorist blows up a dirty bomb in a large city, will we have 48 hours to prepare? I think not. Homeland Security has failed its first real test.

In one of the few compliments Bush gave the previous administration during the 2000 campaign, he praised President Clinton's FEMA director, James Lee Witt, as a "guy who has done a really good job of working with governors during times of crisis."

Yet after his election in 2000, Bush quickly replaced Witt with Joseph Allbaugh, his former campaign manager, and a man who had little experience in disaster relief. At a Senate subcommittee hearing on May 15, 2001, he called the agency "an oversized entitlement program" and warned that "expectations of when the federal government should be involved, and the degree of involvement, may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."
Text

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
You're telling me we had two days of warning for the impact, and using it to refute my opinion that we didn't have enough time? I remember Ivan as the top story in the news for over a week before it hit.

What on earth makes you think over two million people from all over the gulf region can be evacuated in two days? Or that they would even want to move? Before Katrina you?d easily find people down there mocking incoming storms.

The Gulf region.... Make sense. Who's talking about the entire "Gulf Region"? Where did most of the deaths occur? In the "Gulf Region"? Stop dodging. You tried to say the storm veered at the last minute. It did not. The eye was within 30 miles of the estimated location. How much more warning should we have. When a terrorist blows up a dirty bomb in a large city, will we have 48 hours to prepare? I think not. Homeland Security has failed its first real test.

In one of the few compliments Bush gave the previous administration during the 2000 campaign, he praised President Clinton's FEMA director, James Lee Witt, as a "guy who has done a really good job of working with governors during times of crisis."

Yet after his election in 2000, Bush quickly replaced Witt with Joseph Allbaugh, his former campaign manager, and a man who had little experience in disaster relief. At a Senate subcommittee hearing on May 15, 2001, he called the agency "an oversized entitlement program" and warned that "expectations of when the federal government should be involved, and the degree of involvement, may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."
Text

Hey Dan. Guess who Blanco hired as her advisor for emergency operations and disaster response for Katrina?

Yep, James Lee Witt. It doesn't seem he's helped her out too well.

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: luigi1
Flame, Flame. Not at anybody its just...well its P&N . So flame. And ya, Its almost a given that a dictatorship is gonna have more control than a demoacratcy. If you tell an american what to do hes likely to do just the oppisate. We call that freedom and we cherish it.

All the more reason we should have got it right! America is most certainly NOT a democracy!

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Hey Dan. Guess who Blanco hired as her advisor for emergency operations and disaster response for Katrina?

Yep, James Lee Witt. It doesn't seem he's helped her out too well.

Huh? She called him in after the sh!t had already hit the fan and she could see the Feds doing nothing. Nice try though, TLC.
Results of a Pew Research Center for the People and the Press poll.

Poll: Bush Didn't Do Enough in Katrina Response

The poll shows that 67 percent of Americans say Mr. Bush could have done more in handling relief efforts, while 28 percent say he did all he could.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4837760

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: glugglug

Originally posted by: luigi1
Flame, Flame. Not at anybody its just...well its P&N . So flame. And ya, Its almost a given that a dictatorship is gonna have more control than a demoacratcy. If you tell an american what to do hes likely to do just the oppisate. We call that freedom and we cherish it.

All the more reason we should have got it right! America is most certainly NOT a democracy!

After reading P&N it becomes a Scareocracy. Or maybe an Alarmocracy? Or possibly a Conspirocracy? But it's definitely not a Democracy.

😕

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
You're telling me we had two days of warning for the impact, and using it to refute my opinion that we didn't have enough time? I remember Ivan as the top story in the news for over a week before it hit.

What on earth makes you think over two million people from all over the gulf region can be evacuated in two days? Or that they would even want to move? Before Katrina you?d easily find people down there mocking incoming storms.

The Gulf region.... Make sense. Who's talking about the entire "Gulf Region"? Where did most of the deaths occur? In the "Gulf Region"? Stop dodging. You tried to say the storm veered at the last minute. It did not. The eye was within 30 miles of the estimated location. How much more warning should we have. When a terrorist blows up a dirty bomb in a large city, will we have 48 hours to prepare? I think not. Homeland Security has failed its first real test.

In one of the few compliments Bush gave the previous administration during the 2000 campaign, he praised President Clinton's FEMA director, James Lee Witt, as a "guy who has done a really good job of working with governors during times of crisis."

Yet after his election in 2000, Bush quickly replaced Witt with Joseph Allbaugh, his former campaign manager, and a man who had little experience in disaster relief. At a Senate subcommittee hearing on May 15, 2001, he called the agency "an oversized entitlement program" and warned that "expectations of when the federal government should be involved, and the degree of involvement, may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."
Text

Hey Dan. Guess who Blanco hired as her advisor for emergency operations and disaster response for Katrina?

Yep, James Lee Witt. It doesn't seem he's helped her out too well.

Trolling again are we? Spreading half-truths and innuendo again, eh, TrollsLikeChicken?

Tell us, TLC, exactly *when* did she bring in Mr. Witt? Hmmm? Care to tell us all that?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I'm a definite Cuba fan . . . which is NOT synonymous with being a Castro fan.

A couple of posts have hit on the salient differences between Cuba and southern LA/MS/AL. IMHO, it's organization and authority. One, there's really only ONE entity that's in charge. Two, when they say leave . . . they come pick your arse up (in part b/c most of the people don't own cars or have the means to leave). Three, when they come to pick you up . . . it ain't a negotiation. Your arse is leaving.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: fornax
Some food for thought:

In 2001, hurricane Michelle hit Cuba with sustained 125-mile-per-hour winds and widespread floods. Nearly 700,000 people were evacuated and only five people lost their lives.

In 2004, Cuba was hit by Ivan, the fifth-largest hurricane ever to hit the Caribbean. More than 100,000 residents were evacuated within the first three hours. Altogether nearly 2 million people (more than 15 percent of the total population) were evacuated. Even animals and birds were moved. No one was killed. The UN declared this to be a model of disaster preparation.

And this in a country starved by sanctions and blockades. I seems to me that Bush should fire the whole FEMA leadership starting with Brown and ask the Cubans to send a team of prepared disaster management professionals over here.

Cuba is a communist dictatorship! The people obey the government or get shot. The last time I was there, I gave my ticket to a soldier with an automatic weapon as I boarded the plane. Surely, you realize that you libs have absolutely protested authoritarian government completely out of this country, don't you? Weren't you guys posting in an outraged fashion when the military went into NO with weapons to stop the looting? You just can't have it both ways!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I wish we could be more like Cuba.

You can move there. Nice beaches and 100% employment!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: TechITguy
Yeah, But when they told people to leave guess what, THEY DID. When we tell people to leave the city they say, no I think I will be fine.

They told them with automatic weapons. More emphasis on action, less on BS.