Nothing Ever Changes But The Dates And The Locations

[Zorba]

Yup there are over 400 million guns in America. Guns are easy to access and will be for the foreseeable future. It is a fact, and it will be extremely difficult or even impossible to change this, whether I like that fact or not. Even if we could pass a complete ban on the sale of new guns there will still be easy access for decades until existing guns break/wear out. That is assuming that parts won't be replaceable via 3D printing or some other unforeseen technological advance or legal loophole.

I see a lot of arguments about what should or should not be, but relatively little substance on how to actually change things. "Guns should be harder to access." "We should change the gun culture." "We should ban a gun that's used in like 1-2% of all murders and that will eliminate those murders because nobody who wants to use this specific type of gun could possibly figure out how to use one of the tools that are used in the other 98% of murders instead".

I think the best solutions are to change whether people want to commit murder in the first place. To research and understand why murders have massively dropped from 30 years ago despite the fact that the number of guns owned has massively increased.

"Guys, doing the thing nearly every other first world country has done is impossible! Let's instead fix human nature!" We also need to look at the fact that although total murders have decreased, school murders have increased with the increase in gun nuttery over the last 30 years.

At least irresponsible gun owners that let minors have access to firearms are finally starting to be held responsible. Providing uncontrolled access to a firearm for a minor should be a felony.

 

[igor_kavinski]

At least irresponsible gun owners that let minors have access to firearms are finally starting to be held responsible. Providing uncontrolled access to a firearm for a minor should be a felony.

Unfortunately, there will still be cases of dumb parents who think their kids will obey them if they are told "Use this gun I gave you for defensive purposes ONLY" and "Don't take it to school". And the kid will be like, "I had to defend myself AT SCHOOL!" and defend from what? Probably some stupid emotional crap.

By the way, in the US, there's a legal age for drinking, for sex, for being able to handle financial matters etc. but seems no legal age for pointing a gun!

 

[manly]

Teenagers are much braver than the "good guys with guns" in Uvalde.

In one classroom, a 14-year-old said she kept the suspect from getting through the door when she saw him pull out a gun. And after a teacher in another classroom was shot, students say they pulled him back inside and used the shirts off their backs to try and stop his bleeding while barricading the door with desks and chairs. Even with a gunshot wound, one teenage boy said he raced to close the classroom door to prevent the shooter from entering.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/07/us/apalachee-school-shooting-georgia-saturday/index.html

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

At least irresponsible gun owners that let minors have access to firearms are finally starting to be held responsible. Providing uncontrolled access to a firearm for a minor should be a felony.

Like this one:

Lock her up.

Mother charged after 6-year-old takes loaded gun to school​

ABC|9 hours ago
The mother of a 6-year-old was charged this week after her son took a loaded hand gun to school and passed it around to other students in his class, court records show.

.

 

[allisolm]

This one is too new to even have many of the particulars. Just saying that numerous persons have been shot near I-75 nine miles north of London, KY. They're looking for the shooter.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/07/us/kentucky-interstate-75-shooting/index.html

 

[Indus]

This one is too new to even have many of the particulars. Just saying that numerous persons have been shot near I-75 nine miles north of London, KY. They're looking for the shooter.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/07/us/kentucky-interstate-75-shooting/index.html

Supposedly happened on the I-75.. so road rage??

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Could be anything from that, to a domestic/family thing, to a punk with a gun on an overpass to a traffic stop gone bad or attempted take down of a wanted suspect to something more sinister.

 

[Dave_5k]

Supposedly happened on the I-75.. so road rage??

Out in Magacrackistan, Kentucky area, so probably a black trans illegal immigrant woman to blame, like always.

 

[allisolm]

Out in Magacrackistan, Kentucky area, so probably a black trans illegal immigrant woman to blame, like always.

Probably, but it will be difficult since the person they're out there looking for is a 32 yr old white guy Joseph A. Couch and he looks pretty normal. No facial tats, ratty beard, long, stringy hair, Nazi symbols, etc. Ya just can't hardly count on identifying the baddies by looks.

Police identify Person of Interest in I-75 shooting investigation in Laurel Co. - WTVQ

The Laurel County Sheriff's office said in a post on Facebook that it was an “active shooter situation” and “numerous persons” were shot near the highway.

www.wtvq.com

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

News site local to the area.

https://www.thetimestribune.com/news/update-person-of-interest-identified-in-active-shooting/article_12c52ac4-3ca2-58e8-97ff-5e5b2c0254f5.html

 

[Moonbeam]

Yup throw your hands in the air and give up because there are already too many guns out there. What is the one thing the US has that the rest of the world doesn’t have? Hmmmmm 🤔🤔🤔

There’s that conservatives fear reasoning. “All you meanies out there throwing cold water on my gun hysteria are a bunch of baby quitters. You are all just a bunch of gun nutters who want us to give up. We can’t have any rational sensible gun control like the majority want and we just, thanks to you, have to give up.”

Go eat your worms or learn how to think. The people here arguing the problem is mental health are not saying the access issue must be totally abandoned. The issue is guns in the hands of violent people. Fixing either of those linked issues is hugely challenging.

As long as there are guns and insanity there will be gun deaths. If there are no guns there will be no gun deaths but murder will persist. If there is no insanity there will not be murder of any kind.

To eliminate guns will will require the elimination of all reasons to have them. That will require the elimination of the threat of the insanity from others. The elimination of the fear of insanity will require knowledge of how that can happen which will first mean that people will have to believe it can be. The way to know it can be starts by work on the self. Work on the self is not imagining the fix is out there. Will you wake up to that fact, or have you not already just given up?

 

[Indus]

Joseph A. Couch and he looks pretty normal. No facial tats, ratty beard, long, stringy hair, Nazi symbols, etc. Ya just can't hardly count on identifying the baddies by looks.

Vance's lover boy?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

They don't say where the guy's from or why he was there. That stretch of road is a major north/south route and there is a huge truck stop right there. He could be a local or pretty much from anywhere at all.

 

[Moonbeam]

"Guys, doing the thing nearly every other first world country has done is impossible! Let's instead fix human nature!" We also need to look at the fact that although total murders have decreased, school murders have increased with the increase in gun nuttery over the last 30 years.

At least irresponsible gun owners that let minors have access to firearms are finally starting to be held responsible. Providing uncontrolled access to a firearm for a minor should be a felony.

The human nature you suggest has no fix is your personal mental prison. Looks like you didn’t watch the link I suggested you consider. You feel violence within you has no cure because you do not want to feel again the pain that caused that rage. Your saying that fixing it is impossible, while imagining that the 2nd amendment and the numbers of people who don’t want to lose rights are no big issue. Other countries did it.

I heard that when the Dalai Lama was faced with the choice of fighting or giving up control of Tibet, he told the Chinese to take it. If other countries can do that why not us? The military has lots of guns. How far should we go eliminating them?

 

[Moonbeam]

Vance's lover boy?

It would not surprise me if that were the trigger.

 

[Jaskalas]

I heard that when the Dalai Lama was faced with the choice of fighting or giving up control of Tibet, he told the Chinese to take it. If other countries can do that why not us?

...
But if you want to put your words to the test, we should come for American's guns. Then you can choose if you are equal to the Dalai Lama or not. I no longer mind. Either way works for me.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

"Guys, doing the thing nearly every other first world country has done is impossible! Let's instead fix human nature!" We also need to look at the fact that although total murders have decreased, school murders have increased with the increase in gun nuttery over the last 30 years.

At least irresponsible gun owners that let minors have access to firearms are finally starting to be held responsible. Providing uncontrolled access to a firearm for a minor should be a felony.

No other country with gun ownership rates similar to America has ever gotten rid of a significant portion of their guns, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

The point isn't to fix human nature, it's to acknowledge that there are factors far more influential to murder rates than number or types of guns owned. Maybe we could focus on those factors. For example: we have a massive prison population of non-violent offenders (thanks, war on drugs). Putting people in prison makes them violent. Denying people access to mental and physical health care does not help. Can we make changes here that are conducive toward NOT creating monsters in prison?

I'm not feeling gun bans in America. I see them as useless, or depending on how draconian the law is, I see them possibly leading to more violence. We need to even think about the feasibility of this: we can't even get a federal ban on a single type of weapon ("assault" rifles) that is used in just a few percent of all murders even though we've been trying for a quarter century. Even if we did get this ban passed, why wouldn't people switch to the types of weapons used in nearly all other murders? At some point you have to consider other options and ask ourselves if we're banning guns just to ban guns or if we're actually going to achieve a reduction in murders that can be directly measured and attributed to the ban.

At least irresponsible gun owners that let minors have access to firearms are finally starting to be held responsible. Providing uncontrolled access to a firearm for a minor should be a felony.

100% agree. This is one of those other options that I think could be achievable and useful and effective.

 

[Moonbeam]

...
But if you want to put your words to the test, we should come for American's guns. Then you can choose if you are equal to the Dalai Lama or not. I no longer mind. Either way works for me.

I do not personally know if what I heard is true. I only know I did hear that. Here is something else he supposedly said:

When is violent self-defence justified in Buddhist ethics? - European Academy on Religion and Society

Is violent self-defence ever justified according to Buddhist ethics? It can certainly be legal in Western law, but is it ethical as well? Legal but also ethical? Europe has a significant population of…

europeanacademyofreligionandsociety.com

In case someone is tempted to respond that my great idea is to arm school children, it is not.

I think disarmament should not be one-sided but hand in hand with with progress in curing human violence. It is going to be difficult however to get rid of the primate projectiles called stones in our language.

 

[allisolm]

They still haven't found the shooter or any motive and thankfully nobody was killed. Five injured. "Nine vehicles were shot into on both north and southbound lanes of Interstate-75 and five people were struck by gunfire around 5:30 p.m. Saturday, the Laurel County Sheriff’s Office said. All five victims are in stable condition."

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/08/us/kentucky-interstate-75-shooting-sunday/index.html

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

"Guys, doing the thing nearly every other first world country has done is impossible! Let's instead fix human nature!" We also need to look at the fact that although total murders have decreased, school murders have increased with the increase in gun nuttery over the last 30 years.

At least irresponsible gun owners that let minors have access to firearms are finally starting to be held responsible. Providing uncontrolled access to a firearm for a minor should be a felony.

Every other first world nation doesn't have the 2A in their Constitution, nor Republicans. Show me one that's climbed that hill and we'll talk.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Every other first world nation doesn't have the 2A in their Constitution, nor Republicans. Show me one that's climbed that hill and we'll talk.

As we can see, it's working out oh so well for us

 

[Jaskalas]

Every other first world nation doesn't have the 2A in their Constitution, nor Republicans. Show me one that's climbed that hill and we'll talk.

If Republicans want to stand between us and keeping kids alive.
That's a bridge many will die on.

Fact that they have gone MAGA only makes that ultimatum far more likely. Cannot break norms and expect norms to hold us back. If they declare Democracy is dead, then so is their 2A.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

As we can see, it's working out oh so well for us

And attempts to overturn the 2a have gone swimmingly too.

If Republicans want to stand between us and keeping kids alive.
That's a bridge many will die on.

Fact that they have gone MAGA only makes that ultimatum far more likely. They have no reason to wield to convince us to hold back. If they think Democracy is dead, then so is their 2A.

Right, but how do you intend to kill it? I place the odds of changing the 2A at 0% until at least two conservative SC justices bow out, so you're looking at a few decades at least. We plan on just sitting on our hands until then?

 

[Jaskalas]

Right, but how do you intend to kill it? I place the odds of changing the 2A at 0% until....

Let's see how violent this election gets first, before answering that. For the two are intimately related.
Because in some cases, we're not talking a whole America coming out the other end.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I have a great idea. Good citizens of the USA should donate all their weapons to Ukraine. Problem solved.