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Not the TOB. My transmission went out!

E

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
I'm pretty sure thats what it is. Any sure fire way to tell, other than the grinding in neutral and extreme crunching and grinding when accelerating? lol.

This sucks. The clutch itself seems to have plenty of life left. I'm just about to break 100k miles.

The dealership quoted me at 900$, minus 50 if the flywheel doesn't need machined.

:shocked:

For a freakin clutch job?!

I was thinking maybe 600$ tops. Yes, this really sucks. I don't know what to do. It's gotten really bad within the last few hundred miles, I'm glad I made it home last night.

:|

I'm hesitant to use a non dealership shop, but I'm sure they would give me a better price...

Update: So I got the call from the shop today. They dropped the transmission. The noise is coming from the main bearing, the transmission is shot.

Total cost for used transmission with 15-30k on it with warranty, new clutch and labor is $1310. I don't have that much money, I don't know what I'm going to do.

This car isn't saving me any money at all.......

🙁
 
what do you hear when you depress the clutch? on my triumph tr7, it would make an awful racket when ever the clutch was engaged, but quiet otherwise.

how are you mechanically? be a whole lot cheaper if you can do it yourself. probably take a day. that a whole lot cheaper than the dealer wanted to do my Solara. I was quoted $1700 to replace the clutch on that. and it cost me $250 for the parts since the only place i could get them for a 2004 model. my son burnt the clutch while learning to drive it.

 
Originally posted by: dawp
what do you hear when you depress the clutch? on my triumph tr7, it would make an awful racket when ever the clutch was engaged, but quiet otherwise.

how are you mechanically? be a whole lot cheaper if you can do it yourself. probably take a day. that a whole lot cheaper than the dealer wanted to do my Solara. I was quoted $1700 to replace the clutch on that. and it cost me $250 for the parts since the only place i could get them for a 2004 model. my son burnt the clutch while learning to drive it.
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I could easily do the job myself, but I don't have the space or time. 🙁
 
if you can do the job yourself you should know there are plenty of non-dealer shops out there that know what theyre doing. yes, it can be hard to find a reputable one, but $600 really should be the high figure. 900 from a dealer (on a honda at that) doesnt sound horrible, but i would think you can get it done for under 500...
 
That doesn't seem that bad for a clutch job, though it's a lot of money regardless. Sorry to hear it's going bad on you. So much for the common wisdom that throwout bearing always outlast the clutch. Always an exception, I guess.
 
That doesn't seem that bad for a clutch job, though it's a lot of money regardless. Sorry to hear it's going bad on you. So much for the common wisdom that throwout bearing always outlast the clutch. Always an exception, I guess.
 
Yeah, kinda weird really. Wonder if it's just a fluke, or the previous owner did something to cause it to fail prematurely.
 
The throwout bearing gave signs of going out at about 74,000KM when I got the clutch replaced. Total cost was around $600Cdn.

It would give a slight whirling noise unless I applied light force on the clutch pedal.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
I'm pretty sure thats what it is. Any sure fire way to tell, other than the grinding in neutral and extreme crunching and grinding when accelerating? lol.

This sucks. The clutch itself seems to have plenty of life left. I'm just about to break 100k miles.

The dealership quoted me at 900$, minus 50 if the flywheel doesn't need machined.

:shocked:

For a freakin clutch job?!

I was thinking maybe 600$ tops. Yes, this really sucks. I don't know what to do. It's gotten really bad within the last few hundred miles, I'm glad I made it home last night.

:|

I'm hesitant to use a non dealership shop, but I'm sure they would give me a better price...
Click to expand...

First off, your dealer might not know what they are talking about as the the Insight doesn't have a flywheel. The electric motor takes over the function of the flywheel, it balances by sending pulses through the electric motor countering vibration.. I have yet to see the problem you are having. Might be a good idea to post in the Insight forum.

Clutch work should also be easier in the Insight as the engine compartment is far from cramped.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Yeah, kinda weird really. Wonder if it's just a fluke, or the previous owner did something to cause it to fail prematurely.
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Probably abused or a fluke. My Insight just hit 150k on the original clutch / transmission. The only issue I have is that it tries to grind down shifting into 2nd or 1st. I just use mima to compensate the lugging and rarely down shift below 3rd until slowed or stopped. All gears shift up and down smoothly except for what I mentioned.
 
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

First off, your dealer might not know what they are talking about as the the Insight doesn't have a flywheel. The electric motor takes over the function of the flywheel, it balances by sending pulses through the electric motor countering vibration.. I have yet to see the problem you are having. Might be a good idea to post in the Insight forum.

Clutch work should also be easier in the Insight as the engine compartment is far from cramped.
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It may not have a weighted flywheel that smooths out the engine, but it certainly has a toothed wheel that the starter motor engages to start the car, and that squeezes the clutch plate between itself and the pressure plate...which may need to be machined during a clutch job.

Eli: What do you mean by "grinding in neutral and extreme grinding when accelerating?"

If you're full in gear and accelerating, you should NOT hear grinding, since the clutch is fully engaged and the throwout bearing shouldn't have any pressure on it. In neutral (with the clutch out), you should hear nothing, but if the clutch is pushed in, you would hear some sort of squeak, squeal, or other sign of mechanical distress if the throwout bearing was faulty.
 
I mean just that.

Something sounds absolutely aweful. I'm not sure what else it would be. At first I thought maybe it was a CV joint, but the sound changes with engine RPM, not speed.

You can hear it when sitting in neutral.

Also, he is indeed wrong, the engine does of course have a flywheel.. but it is very light and small. It is toothed for a starter, but I've actually only had the starter engage twice in the few months I've had it. 😉 It usually uses the IMA motor to start.

It's definitely something drivetrain related. I don't know how to explain the noise.

It's worst in 1st, less in 2nd, hard to hear in 3rd and disappears for the most part in 4th and 5th, but probably only because of road noise.

It's gotten progressively worse in the last few hundred miles.

Everything seems fine though. The transmission shifts fine, the engine runs good and sounds fine when revved in neutral.. but there is a horrible noise when moving forward. It's not a wheel bearing, its only present when in gear.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
I mean just that.

Also, he is indeed wrong, the engine does of course have a flywheel.. but it is very light and small. It is toothed for a starter, but I've actually only had the starter engage twice in the few months I've had it. 😉 It usually uses the IMA motor to start.
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Your right, it has a small flywheel, but lacks balance shafts. I must have misread a post.

Vibration control system

I would still post on the Insight forums, some of those guys have extensive experience with that car.

Diagram of the flywhell and electric motor.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Everything seems fine though. The transmission shifts fine, the engine runs good and sounds fine when revved in neutral.. but there is a horrible noise when moving forward. It's not a wheel bearing, its only present when in gear.
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Uh, oh. That doesn't sound like the pilot or throw-out bearing. They don't know when you're in gear or not. A release bearing you can tell is bad just sitting idling in neutral. Pilot bearings (or bushing, don't know about yours) SHOULD make noise regardless....the crank is always spinning, and if it's going to make noise, it should do it when in neutral, not when moving.

Dude, you are rough on cars. Isn't that 3 you've killed in about a year now? 😉
 
I mis-spoke, the noise is there even when idling in neutral.. just a constant grinding, nasty noise.. although somewhat hard to hear unless you stick your ear down low.

When moving foward, its quite pronounced.. you can hear it in the cabin with the windows rolled up.

It's also present in reverse. Actually, it was present in reverse long before I noticed it in the forward gears, but didn't think much of it.

Help me diagnose this! lol

I'm pretty sure its not anything too serious since the car drives fine otherwise. It has to be some sort've bearing or something.

Unless its inside the transmission. Wow. That would suck. But it shifts fine in every gear.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
I mis-spoke, the noise is there even when idling in neutral.. just a constant grinding, nasty noise.. although somewhat hard to hear unless you stick your ear down low.

When moving foward, its quite pronounced.. you can hear it in the cabin with the windows rolled up.

It's also present in reverse. Actually, it was present in reverse long before I noticed it in the forward gears, but didn't think much of it.

Help me diagnose this! lol

I'm pretty sure its not anything too serious since the car drives fine otherwise. It has to be some sort've bearing or something.

Unless its inside the transmission. Wow. That would suck. But it shifts fine in every gear.
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I had a minor rattle coming from my cat converter cover, and it was more pronounced under load. I was able to secure it with a long hose clamp. Worth a shot looking at it.
 
Just went to investigate more..

The noise DOES disappear when I depress the clutch pedal. It's very loud otherwise, I can hear it in the cabin just in neutral.

I hope I make it to 7-11 and back.. LOL
 
Would premature wear on throw out bearing have anything to do with the hybrid nature of the car? How does your car stall if you come to a stop in gear or does it just go into electric mode?
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Would premature wear on throw out bearing have anything to do with the hybrid nature of the car? How does your car stall if you come to a stop in gear or does it just go into electric mode?
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I don't think so.

I think its just a random fluke.

When you come to a stop, the engine stops. When you shift it back into gear, it restarts.

If anything, this should save wear on the throw out bearing. In previous cars, I would always just leave it in gear with the clutch depressed.
 
The insight driven normally should put very little wear on a clutch as the engine has low torque, and the rpms for conservative driving rarely exceed 3k.

Auto stop works only when the engine is warmed and if you drop under 18 - 20 mph and you are not in 1st gear. Even though the engine shuts off it still turns over until the clutch is depressed and / or the car is put into neutral. The Insight has no true EV only mode as the electric motor is mounted where a flywheel is normally located (between the flywheel and the third cylinder). To restart you have to depress the clutch and put the car into first OR put the car into first, then depress the clutch OR give the car gas OR pump the brake. I can also start the car with my mima joystick if I choose, but there is a 2 - 3 sec delay, so it isn't always practical. I had to think about that as my auto stop has only came on a handful of times this winter due to the temps. In the summer it comes on every stop as long as econ is engaged. The same guy who designed mima also designed a shutoff switch when doing long downhill stretches, basically forced auto stop for speeds above 20 mph.
 
Damn, how cold is it for your engine to never warm up?

We're going to have some pretty cold temperatures for around here (lower 20s)..

I need to change my oil. Running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20, but it's got ~13,000 miles on it.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Just went to investigate more..

The noise DOES disappear when I depress the clutch pedal. It's very loud otherwise, I can hear it in the cabin just in neutral.

I hope I make it to 7-11 and back.. LOL
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Okay, then it sounds more like the throwout bearing. Try just resting your foot on the clutch and see if you can change the noise with just a little pressure....that'll prove it definitively.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Damn, how cold is it for your engine to never warm up?

We're going to have some pretty cold temperatures for around here (lower 20s)..

I need to change my oil. Running Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20, but it's got ~13,000 miles on it.
Click to expand...

0 - 30F for the most part, plus my commute is so short, 2 miles, park for 3 hrs, 3 miles, park for 3 more hours, 3 miles, then home. The engine doesn't fully warm up. Been hell on my winter mileage. I will be lucky to get 45 - 50 mpg this tank.

I'm still getting about 65 mpg if I take a trip over 10 miles long.
 
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