not profiling is F'ing stupid and a waste of resources

[BlahBlahYouToo]

i think everyone is caught up in the whole middle eastern, muslim terrorist topic.

the basis of the thread however was that it's a waste of time and resources to make the checks appear random by searching people of other races. and the main purpose of doing this is to not offend the other stereotyped groups who have a background of violence, whether it be terrorists or thugs.

that is what bothers me the most.

 

[soulcougher73]

If you only search the 'pattern' you are guaranteed not to catch them.

Sounds like PC brainwashing you got going on their. You guys have to remember that profiling is based off patterns and statistics. That is all. It is not a 100% guarenteed outcome. Its an educated guess. We do it with everything else in our life, why not with people?

You will never catch them all, just like you cannot prevent murder from happening no matter how you try to control the outcomes with regulations and laws.

But outright ignoring patterns is retarded.

 

[soulcougher73]

It's not deflecting from the topic. The resources spent on treating the "symptoms" can be saved altogether or curtailed drastically if the root cause is treated, i.e. halting interference and policing of the world from a moral high horse.

I think its a little too late now. We could stop but the hatred is already their. Have to deal with it. But i agree if we could go back in time it would have been better to just leave them be.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So, you'd let a Timothy McVeigh thru but not the middle eastern college student who's wearing a turban?

Pretty much this.

 

[nublikescake]

that's a load of horse shit. You can make up whatever excuses you want, but the beliefs of islam are what causes the attacks. But keep on making excuses for the crazy people, that's nice of you

What's horseshit is what you're fed daily by Faux News. Enjoy your police state and the anal probing by the TSA. :thumbsup:

 

[Capt Caveman]

i think everyone is caught up in the whole middle eastern, muslim terrorist topic.

the basis of the thread however was that it's a waste of time and resources to make the checks appear random by searching people of other races. and the main purpose of doing this is to not offend the other stereotyped groups who have a background of violence, whether it be terrorists or thugs.

that is what bothers me the most.

Based on that logic, we only react after the fact. Remember 9/11? Don't want to prevent another one?

 

[Jeff7]

This stuff works well in movies where the bad guys have the IQ of a fairly smart turnip, and where they essentially wear shirts that say "BAD GUY. HOLDING BOMB."

If you've got half a brain, acts of terrorism aren't terribly difficult to think up and commit, and it's even easier to cause substantial damage when you view your own life as disposable.

 

[actuarial]

I think you guys are missing the point. Expected i suppose. You will not catch them all. That is a given. But if they are dressed in Muslim attire that is a good sign. If they are middle eastern back ground. That is another sign.

Can they switch up the pattern? Sure. But until we see a rash of 80 year old white grannies blowing shit up and spewing hate against the US. I think its pretty safe to not screen them.

I think you're missing the point. The pattern is not someone wearing muslim attire. You're creating a pattern where there isn't one, and actually in favor of implementing a strategy that would avoid screening any recent terrorist.

If you want to screen males born in specific countries, then at least that's based in reality. Even still, the cost of screening all these people would be very high, probably prohibitively high. And even that is reasonably easy to get around such that it probably shouldn't count as security.

 

[Paul98]

Sounds like PC brainwashing you got going on their. You guys have to remember that profiling is based off patterns and statistics. That is all. It is not a 100% guarenteed outcome. Its an educated guess. We do it with everything else in our life, why not with people?

You will never catch them all, just like you cannot prevent murder from happening no matter how you try to control the outcomes with regulations and laws.

But outright ignoring patterns is retarded.

How do you know where they are from, what religion they are(aka how do you know if the person you stop fits your pattern)? Just by looks? What do you do with the rest of the people who don't fit your stats?

 

[actuarial]

Based on that logic, we only react after the fact. Remember 9/11? Don't want to prevent another one?

There are far better ways to avoid another 9/11 than screening people. How about locking pilot cockpit doors, and/or having an armed air martial in the cockpit?

 

[magomago]

I would just stop every middle eastern or muslim and screen them. If they have a problem with their kind blowing shit up than they should do something to change the pattern/behavior. Otherwise they will just have to deal with being profiled. Until its not middle eastern or muslim people doing it against the US. The pattern is ever changing. Gotta roll with the punches.

LOL you are such a fool. If you think every time I'm going on the subway I need to be patted down and have my bags checked because I look like a Middle Eastern person you are a tool. That does NOTHING for safety and only pisses off any american that might look like a Middle Eastern person. You talking about what the 'prevailing trends' are is an obfuscation of what behavioral traits they actually need to look for. Physical appearance CAN play into it (although its easily alterable; dress like a high powered exec and you destroy any attempt to profile based on dress), but one has to be smart about it.

Should japanese americans be interned once more? Should we do the same with Chinese americans? Are you fine so as long as it doesn't come back to you?

But I agree - to search based on purely random selection is stupid because you are searching for a needle in a haystack. It only shows how stupid we are when it comes weeding out real threats. At the same time, snagging every 'middle eastern looking person' is equally stupid and will only inflame Americans who thought they had the same rights as others

And the great part is that depending on who I speak to I've gotten things like 'white' 'north indian' 'eastern european' 'spanish/greek/italian/ european meditterian' 'mexican' and even 'western chinese'...tell me how you AREN'T going to piss off those groups as well

 

[slayer202]

What's horseshit is what you're fed daily by Faux News. Enjoy your police state and the anal probing by the TSA. :thumbsup:

Was that response supposed to make any sense? Keep reading conspiracy theories

 

[werepossum]

i think everyone is caught up in the whole middle eastern, muslim terrorist topic.

the basis of the thread however was that it's a waste of time and resources to make the checks appear random by searching people of other races. and the main purpose of doing this is to not offend the other stereotyped groups who have a background of violence, whether it be terrorists or thugs.

that is what bothers me the most.

Agreed, random searches are pretty much a useless waste of resources. We have become so willfully politically correct that we intentionally handicap ourselves by doing things like requiring additional risk factors (compared to the general population) before airport security will search an identifiably Muslim person. Even after the horror of 9/11, State's first act was to begin fast tracking visa applications from Middle Eastern countries.

Political correctness is a collective death wish.

 

[soulcougher73]

How do you know where they are from, what religion they are(aka how do you know if the person you stop fits your pattern)? Just by looks? What do you do with the rest of the people who don't fit your stats?

I would say looks would play the biggest role in identifying the majority of them. If you are trained professional you will know different regions of the worlds cultural norms and appearances. As ive already said 50 times. You will not catch them all. But stopping the Japanesse guy to screen him is a waste of time, money, and resources. Until such time comes that Japanesse people fit the bill of a terrorist. Well concidering most of the middle east is Muslim identifying the religious part will come with identifying the nationality part.

Again profiling is not a 100% fool proof thing. But its the best we got so we use it. People will always slip through the cracks or the whole pattern will shift and all a sudden Muslims stop terrorism and white male Russians start becoming terrorist. Or maybe both at the same time, who knows.

The point per the OP is wasting time on people who have no establised patterns of terrrorism. Which i agree with. People need to stop being so offended and pussy and look at the world with open eyes and seeing it for what it is and not what they want it to be. The day the world is the way you want it to be then you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

Profiling is not about racism etc. I dont care if its Muslims, orthodox Jews, Christians, 20 year old white male midgets or porn stars. etc. Its about patterns and attempting to make sense of them.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I would say looks would play the biggest role in identifying the majority of them. If you are trained professional you will know different regions of the worlds cultural norms and appearances. As ive already said 50 times. You will not catch them all. But stopping the Japanesse guy to screen him is a waste of time, money, and resources. Until such time comes that Japanesse people fit the bill of a terrorist. Well concidering most of the middle east is Muslim identifying the religious part will come with identifying the nationality part.

Again profiling is not a 100% fool proof thing. But its the best we got so we use it. People will always slip through the cracks or the whole pattern will shift and all a sudden Muslims stop terrorism and white male Russians start becoming terrorist. Or maybe both at the same time, who knows.

The point per the OP is wasting time on people who have no establised patterns of terrrorism. Which i agree with. People need to stop being so offended and pussy and look at the world with open eyes and seeing it for what it is and not what they want it to be. The day the world is the way you want it to be then you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

Profiling is not about racism etc. I dont care if its Muslims, orthodox Jews, Christians, 20 year old white male midgets or porn stars. etc. Its about patterns and attempting to make sense of them.

Based on this thought, if I was a terrorist, I would just place a bomb on a Japanese guy.

 

[Darwin333]

If I was a good terrorist, I would just sneak an explosive on some white kid/senior citizen. And possible acts of domestic terrorism is something we should ignore?

The terrorists have yet to do anything of the sort. And a bomb of any decent size would be rather difficult to sneak onto a kid or eldery person while still retaining the ability to detonate it when you want. Adding a remote detonator vastly increases the chances of it being found by security.

Common sense profiling is a good idea and used all the time by just about every LEO in the world, although imo we don't use it enough. The crap most people are talking about here is retarded.

 

[soulcougher73]

Should japanese americans be interned once more? Should we do the same with Chinese americans? Are you fine so as long as it doesn't come back to you?

I dont know are they doing something we should worry about? It can come back on me. I dont care one bit. If all a sudden 38 year old white guys that at 6' tall, 200lbs with brown eye and hair, and anthiest start blowing up shit and commiting acts of terrorism. Then profile away. Ill fit right in. But if im not doing anything wrong i have nothing to worry about. My little bit of screening inconvienience is worth the safety it would bring.

But stopping the chinese person behind me who doesnt fit a known terrorist profile yet is just retarded and wasting time, money and resources. Especially if they let me pass unchecked as to not hurt my feelings when im a known profile.

Sorry muslims and middle eastern people are the current terrorist profile. I didnt have a hand in it personally. It is what it is. If they have a problem then maybe they should fix their shit so it dont stink. Maybe muslims around the world should have a campaign on peace and attempt to fix the middle east so their religious leaders are not spewing hate against anyone not muslim. And as another posted mentioned. Maybe we should also sto meddling in their affairs. That could go along ways towards helping the situation.

 

[soulcougher73]

Based on this thought, if I was a terrorist, I would just place a bomb on a Japanese guy.

Go for it. Good luck getting him to go along with it since he is not on board your terrrorist agenda. If you straped on one me (knowingly that is) i would refuse to do anything you said. You are going to kill me one way or another. No way im boarding a plane or going anywhere with you and putting more people at risk of death.

 

[Darwin333]

This stuff works well in movies where the bad guys have the IQ of a fairly smart turnip, and where they essentially wear shirts that say "BAD GUY. HOLDING BOMB."

If you've got half a brain, acts of terrorism aren't terribly difficult to think up and commit, and it's even easier to cause substantial damage when you view your own life as disposable.

When you consider most of the terrorist acts attempted against the US since 9/11, I would say your first example is a lot closer to the truth.

 

[fskimospy]

LOL you are such a fool. If you think every time I'm going on the subway I need to be patted down and have my bags checked because I look like a Middle Eastern person you are a tool. That does NOTHING for safety and only pisses off any american that might look like a Middle Eastern person. You talking about what the 'prevailing trends' are is an obfuscation of what behavioral traits they actually need to look for. Physical appearance CAN play into it (although its easily alterable; dress like a high powered exec and you destroy any attempt to profile based on dress), but one has to be smart about it.

Should japanese americans be interned once more? Should we do the same with Chinese americans? Are you fine so as long as it doesn't come back to you?

But I agree - to search based on purely random selection is stupid because you are searching for a needle in a haystack. It only shows how stupid we are when it comes weeding out real threats. At the same time, snagging every 'middle eastern looking person' is equally stupid and will only inflame Americans who thought they had the same rights as others

And the great part is that depending on who I speak to I've gotten things like 'white' 'north indian' 'eastern european' 'spanish/greek/italian/ european meditterian' 'mexican' and even 'western chinese'...tell me how you AREN'T going to piss off those groups as well

The purpose of random screening isn't really to catch someone as much as it is to deter attacks. I mean it's great if they do catch someone, but that's not the primary purpose.

Racial profiling is dumb. Not because of the obvious Constitutional issues, but more because it isn't effective. NYC tried racial profiling for years, and what ended up happening was that the success rates for police searches went down. ie: they started searching more innocent people than before. Search criteria should be based upon behavior, not looks. Behavior is a vastly better predictor of someone's chance to commit a crime and it has the added bonus of not being racist and shitty.

This comes up pretty often on here, with the same racists (hi Specop!) making the same terrible, discredited points.

 

[soulcougher73]

The purpose of random screening isn't really to catch someone as much as it is to deter attacks. I mean it's great if they do catch someone, but that's not the primary purpose.

Racial profiling is dumb. Not because of the obvious Constitutional issues, but more because it isn't effective. NYC tried racial profiling for years, and what ended up happening was that the success rates for police searches went down. ie: they started searching more innocent people than before. Search criteria should be based upon behavior, not looks. Behavior is a vastly better predictor of someone's chance to commit a crime and it has the added bonus of not being racist and shitty.

This comes up pretty often on here, with the same racists (hi Specop!) making the same terrible, discredited points.

I agree behavior is a good profiling metric. But what is the behavior is also only shown by a certain race? Then what? Youll still be labeled a racist even though you may only be profling based on behavior.

 

[actuarial]

Again profiling is not a 100% fool proof thing. But its the best we got so we use it. People will always slip through the cracks or the whole pattern will shift and all a sudden Muslims stop terrorism and white male Russians start becoming terrorist. Or maybe both at the same time, who knows.

Profiling an extremely rare event doesn't make sense. And it's not the best tool we have.

X-ray scanning baggage, passing through metal detectors, sniffing for bomb materials are far better at increasing security.

The body scanners they're using now are way better at actually increasing safety than profiling, especially since they apply to everyone.

 

[classy]

they have checkpoints in the nyc subway station, where they'll randomly stop someone and go through their bags to check for suspicious materials.

today, i saw 2 authorities stop an old asian man professionally dressed, in his late 50's and go through his belongings.

really? is he really a threat to public safety?
and not the other hooligans with their pants below their ass next to him that you passed on?

fucking PC is retarded.

Asian people commit crimes like anyone else. A person with terrible fashion sense doesn't mean he is a criminal.

 

[actuarial]

I agree behavior is a good profiling metric. But what is the behavior is also only shown by a certain race? Then what? Youll still be labeled a racist even though you may only be profling based on behavior.

Do you have a point here? We should use an ineffective profile methodology (race) since if we use an effective one (behavior) we'll get labelled a racist anyways?

The reason profiling on race makes no sense is because it's WAY too huge a net. There's not the time to personally screen every brown person, and thus we have to start getting more specific. Well, the more specific you get the easier it is to get around.

 

[JTsyo]

Well when the day comes that middle eastern people can make themselves look Japanesse or Russion or something you may have a point. Clothing attire is not a good profiler in and of itself. But nationality is a good one.

Are their white english muslims who may commit terrorists acts? Sure. Are they a super small example..you bet. 1 in a billion? Not really worth spending money and resources on.

Man so many of you fail at statistics and pattern recognition. My guess is you have all been PC'ified and want no one to get butt hurt. Unfortunatly the real world doesnt work like that.

So then terrorist find someone who won't be searched to carry out attacks. They can offer money to their family, hold family hostage, trick them into thinking they are carrying something not so deadly (drugs or other contraband). I came up with these as I read this thread, how many more possibility would there be to get someone else to carry out an attack?