not profiling is F'ing stupid and a waste of resources

[Infohawk]

If we're keeping a database and flagging people that have done something to lead us to believe they may be a threat, and search them more than others, then that makes sense.

Sorry, but the FBI is monitoring Muslims in the US that haven't done anything yet. (Here are some examples in case you doubt it: http://articles.cnn.com/2005-12-23/...els-radioactive-material-fbi-program?_s=PM:US http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...y-alleged-fbi-surveillance-lawyers-claim.html)

 

[actuarial]

Sorry, but the FBI is monitoring Muslims in the US that haven't done anything yet. (Here are some examples in case you doubt it: http://articles.cnn.com/2005-12-23/...els-radioactive-material-fbi-program?_s=PM:US http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...y-alleged-fbi-surveillance-lawyers-claim.html)

I'm sure they are. I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with my post, but I think we're actually pretty close in terms of what we think should happen if we were actually going to increase safety.

 

[Infohawk]

I'm sure they are. I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with my post, but I think we're actually pretty close in terms of what we think should happen if we were actually going to increase safety.

What it has to do with was you saying people are being profiled by their actions, which is not really what anyone means by "profiling." They're being profiled based on their religion, not on their actions. And what I take issue with is your attitude that profiling would not have prevented anything. I think this defies common sense even though nobody can go back in time and prove it.

Most people argue that it's unfair despite potential advantages and frankly I think that's a better argument.

 

[actuarial]

What it has to do with was you saying people are being profiled by their actions, which is not really what anyone means by "profiling." They're being profiled based on their religion, not on their actions. And what I take issue with is your attitude that profiling would not have prevented anything. I think this defies common sense even though nobody can go back in time and prove it.

Most people argue that it's unfair despite potential advantages and frankly I think that's a better argument.

I think it defies common sense to say: racial profiling would have stopped 9/11 without actually laying out some scenario in which it would have. The questions you said we should have asked that could help prevent it were:

"why are all these guys taking flying lessons and not needing to learn landings?" and "why do they all have boxcutters?"

Are you saying that only applies to Muslims, and if it was someone from North Korea, or even from the US, then we should be like "welcome aboard sir".

 

[werepossum]

I think it defies common sense to say: racial profiling would have stopped 9/11 without actually laying out some scenario in which it would have. The questions you said we should have asked that could help prevent it were:

"why are all these guys taking flying lessons and not needing to learn landings?" and "why do they all have boxcutters?"

Are you saying that only applies to Muslims, and if it was someone from North Korea, or even from the US, then we should be like "welcome aboard sir".

As Muslims have a near-monopoly on hijacking and a total monopoly on hijacking to fly into buildings, it certainly is different with Muslims. The original FBI field report was that a group of young Middle Eastern Muslim men were taking flight lessons specifically to learn only how to steer a large multi-engine plane in flight. This was edited to read that a group of men were taking flight lessons specifically to learn only how to steer a large multi-engine plane in flight and FBI management merely shrugged. Had this not been edited, the FBI would surely have investigated because this behavior among young Middle Eastern men of the Islamic faith is statistically radically different than, say, this behavior among elderly Dominican nuns. Had the FBI investigated, they would have discovered that some of these men were on terrorist watch lists. Had the FBI detained these men and searched their belongings, 9/11 would never have happened. Without 9/11 we'd have no Afghanistan war and no Iraq war.

You can certainly argue that young Muslim men are not the only group for whom this behavior is potentially significant, or that we must also profile by behavior as an even more effective tool, or even that it's better to accept the occasional mass murder than to treat anyone a tiny bit differently on the basis of religion or ethnicity. But you cannot honestly argue that racial profiling as one component of law enforcement would not have stopped 9/11.

 

[Infohawk]

I think it defies common sense to say: racial profiling would have stopped 9/11 without actually laying out some scenario in which it would have. The questions you said we should have asked that could help prevent it were:

"why are all these guys taking flying lessons and not needing to learn landings?" and "why do they all have boxcutters?"

What is so hard to understand? Because of their religion, they could have been monitored by the FBI before the actual incident and stopped in their tracks like the FBI has some with other recent plots. At the airport, their clearly Muslim names would have been flagged and airport security would have scrutinized them more closely, not allowing them to bring their weapons on board. The main problem with 911 is that nobody paid attention to them.

 

[WelshBloke]

As Muslims have a near-monopoly on hijacking and a total monopoly on hijacking to fly into buildings, it certainly is different with Muslims. The original FBI field report was that a group of young Middle Eastern Muslim men were taking flight lessons specifically to learn only how to steer a large multi-engine plane in flight. This was edited to read that a group of men were taking flight lessons specifically to learn only how to steer a large multi-engine plane in flight and FBI management merely shrugged. Had this not been edited, the FBI would surely have investigated because this behavior among young Middle Eastern men of the Islamic faith is statistically radically different than, say, this behavior among elderly Dominican nuns. Had the FBI investigated, they would have discovered that some of these men were on terrorist watch lists. Had the FBI detained these men and searched their belongings, 9/11 would never have happened. Without 9/11 we'd have no Afghanistan war and no Iraq war.

You can certainly argue that young Muslim men are not the only group for whom this behavior is potentially significant, or that we must also profile by behavior as an even more effective tool, or even that it's better to accept the occasional mass murder than to treat anyone a tiny bit differently on the basis of religion or ethnicity. But you cannot honestly argue that racial profiling as one component of law enforcement would not have stopped 9/11.

I think, statistically, you are taking out your anus.

 

[werepossum]

I think, statistically, you are taking out your anus.

I eagerly await your links to statistics on suicide hijackings by elderly Dominican nuns. Or to anecdotes. Or to news stories. At that time, I will re-evaluate my statement. Until such time, my statement stands, your kneejerk liberalism notwithstanding.