Norway Under Attack

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Terzo

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2005
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This story makes quite the depressing start for the weekend, and I'm not even on the same continent :/
Norway Horror: 80 Die In Camp Shooting, 7 In Blast

by The Associated Press





A homegrown terrorist set off a deadly explosion in downtown Oslo before heading to a summer camp dressed as a police officer to commit one of the deadliest shooting sprees in history, killing at least 80 people as terrified youths ran and even swam for their lives, police said Friday.


Police initially said about 10 were killed at the forested camp on the island of Utoya, but some survivors said they thought the toll was much higher. Police director Oystein Maeland told reporters early Saturday they had discovered many more victims.


"It's taken time to search the area. What we know now is that we can say that there are at least 80 killed at Utoya," Maeland said. "It goes without saying that this gives dimensions to this incident that are exceptional."


A suspect in the shootings, and the Oslo explosion that killed seven people, was arrested. Though police did not release his name, Norwegian national broadcaster NRK identified him as 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik and said police searched his Oslo apartment overnight. NRK and other Norwegian media posted pictures of the blond, blue-eyed Norwegian.


A police official said the suspect appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems like that this is not linked to any international terrorist organizations at all." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because that information had not been officially released by Norway's police.


"It seems it's not Islamic-terror related," the official said. "This seems like a madman's work."


The official said the attack "is probably more Norway's Oklahoma City than it is Norway's World Trade Center." Domestic terrorists carried out the 1995 attack on a federal building in Oklahoma City, while foreign terrorists were responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.


The official added, however, "it's still just hours since the incident happened. And the investigation is going on with all available resources."


The attacks formed the deadliest day of terror in Western Europe since the 2004 Madrid train bombings, when shrapnel-filled bombs exploded, killing 191 people and wounding about 1,800.


The motive was unknown, but both attacks were in areas connected to the ruling Labor Party government. The youth camp, about 20 miles (35 kilometers) northwest of Oslo, is organized by the party's youth wing, and the prime minister had been scheduled to speak there Saturday.


A 15-year-old camper named Elise said she heard gunshots, but then saw a police officer and thought she was safe. Then he started shooting people right before her eyes.


"I saw many dead people," said Elise, whose father, Vidar Myhre, didn't want her to disclose her last name. "He first shot people on the island. Afterward he started shooting people in the water."


Elise said she hid behind the same rock that the killer was standing on. "I could hear his breathing from the top of the rock," she said.


She said it was impossible to say how many minutes passed while she was waiting for him to stop.


At a hotel in the village of Sundvollen, where survivors of the shooting were taken, 21-year-old Dana Berzingi wore pants stained with blood. He said the fake police officer ordered people to come closer, then pulled weapons and ammunition from a bag and started shooting.


Several victims "had pretended as if they were dead to survive," Berzingi said. But after shooting the victims with one gun, the gunman shot them again in the head with a shotgun, he said.


"I lost several friends," said Berzingi, who used the cell phone of one of those friends to call police.


The blast in Oslo, Norway's capital and the city where the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded, left a square covered in twisted metal, shattered glass and documents expelled from surrounding buildings. Most of the windows in the 20-floor high-rise where Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and his administration work were shattered. Other buildings damaged house government offices and the headquarters of some of Norway's leading newspapers.


The dust-fogged scene after the blast reminded one visitor from New York of Sept. 11.


Ian Dutton, who was in a nearby hotel, said people "just covered in rubble" were walking through "a fog of debris."


"It wasn't any sort of a panic," he said, "It was really just people in disbelief and shock, especially in a such as safe and open country as Norway. You don't even think something like that is possible."


Police said the Oslo explosion was caused by "one or more" bombs.


The police official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the Oslo bombing occurred at 3:26 p.m. local time (1:26 p.m. GMT), and the camp shootings began one to two hours later. The official said the gunman used both automatic weapons and handguns, and that there was at least one unexploded device at the youth camp that a police bomb disposal team and military experts were working on disarming.


The suspect had only a minor criminal record, the official said.


National police chief Sveinung Sponheim said seven people were killed by the blast in downtown Oslo, four of whom have been identified, and that nine or 10 people were seriously injured.


Sponheim said a man was arrested in the shooting, and the suspect had been observed in Oslo before the explosion there.


Sponheim said the camp shooter "wore a sweater with a police sign on it. I can confirm that he wasn't a police employee and never has been."


Aerial images broadcast by Norway's TV2 showed members of a SWAT team dressed in black arriving at the island in boats and running up the dock. Behind them, people who stripped down to their underwear swam away from the island toward shore, some using flotation devices.


Sponheim said police were still trying to get an overview of the camp shooting and could not say whether there was more than one shooter. He would not give any details about the identity or nationality of the suspect, who was being interrogated by police.


Oslo University Hospital said 12 people were admitted for treatment following the Utoya shooting, and 11 people were taken there from the explosion in Oslo. The hospital asked people to donate blood.


Stoltenberg, who was home when the blast occurred and was not harmed, visited injured people at the hospital late Friday. Earlier he decried what he called "a cowardly attack on young innocent civilians."


"I have message to those who attacked us," he said. "It's a message from all of Norway: You will not destroy our democracy and our commitment to a better world."


NRK showed video in Oslo of a blackened car lying on its side amid the debris. An AP reporter who was in the office of Norwegian news agency NTB said the building shook from the blast and all employees were evacuated. Down in the street, he saw one person with a bleeding leg being led away from the area.


An AP reporter headed to Utoya was turned away by police before reaching the lake that surrounds the island, as eight ambulances with sirens blaring entered the area. Police blocked off roads leading to the lake.


The United States, European Union, NATO and the U.K., all quickly condemned the bombing, which Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague called "horrific" and NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen deemed a "heinous act."


"It's a reminder that the entire international community has a stake in preventing this kind of terror from occurring," President Barack Obama said.


Obama extended his condolences to Norway's people and offered U.S. assistance with the investigation. He said he remembered how warmly Norwegians treated him in Oslo when he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009.


Nobel Peace Prize Chairman Thorbjorn Jagland said it appeared the camp attack "was intended to hurt young citizens who actively engage in our democratic and political society. But we must not be intimidated. We need to work for freedom and democracy every day."


A U.S. counterterrorism official said the United States knew of no links to terrorist groups and early indications were the attack was domestic. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was being handled by Norway.


At least two Islamic extremist groups had tried to take credit for the attacks. Many intelligence analysts said they had never heard of Helpers of Global Jihad, which took initial credit. The Kurdish group Ansar al-Islam also took credit on some jihadist web sites.


Norway has been grappling with a homegrown terror plot linked to al-Qaida. Two suspects are in jail awaiting charges.


Last week, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terror charges against an Iraqi-born cleric for threatening Norwegian politicians with death if he is deported from the Scandinavian country. The indictment centered on statements that Mullah Krekar — the founder of Ansar al-Islam — made to various news media, including American network NBC.


Terrorism has also been a concern in neighboring Denmark since an uproar over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad six years ago.
I find the bolded to be particularly distressing.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
64
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No bias at all, claims were made that later turned out to be suspect, may eventually turn out to be true but only time will tell...and the reasons for assumption are massive and don't require any bias at all.

Don't feel bad, you were just following early news reports.

It's somewhat common for the initial news reports to confuse Ultra right-wing western nationalist terrorists with ultra right wing muslim terrorists (muslim radical terrorists are on the right wing of islamic society. Funny how the right wing is responsible for terrorists in both western and islamic countries...), and vice versa.

The initial reports on the Oklahoma City bombings blamed a muslim terroists, and it turned out to be a couple of white nationalists. The failed Times Square bombing initially fingered a white dude, which lead to fears of a domestic right winger, but it turned out to be a pakistani born american.
 

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
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holy fuck did anyone see the picture on liveleak? it's got the guy fucking pointing his gun at a guy in the water begging while bodies float around him. jesus.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
From another forum:

"Just remembered the statistic I saw earlier today that Norway only gets about 40 murders per year on average. Over twice that many in one day."
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
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Taking bets on whether ATOT'ers now consider Christianity a religion of death and terrorism.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
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Scary perspective...

Norway has a population of 5 million.

So for them having 80 people killed would be the equivalent of nearly 5,000 Americans being killed in one attack.
 

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
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well go ahead and tell the news outlets to start calling it 722.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
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It always has been...read up on the Crusades...and the Spanish Inquisition...or the conquering of the "New World."

Christianity is no more or less hateful than Islam. My point is that people (especially Americans) are always quick to condemn Islam as a religion of hate without stopping to consider their own equally retarded beliefs.

The fact of the matter is that the vast VAST majority of people who practice Islam and Christianity are more interested in peace than hate. But terrorism and death are committed under the guidance of each of these religions frequently.
 
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Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
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This story makes quite the depressing start for the weekend, and I'm not even on the same continent :/

I find the bolded to be particularly distressing.

Yeah, that takes a special kind of demented right there.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,260
14,689
146
Christianity is no more of less hateful than Islam. My point is that people (especially Americans) are always quick to condemn Islam as a religion of hate without stopping to consider their own equally retarded beliefs.

The fact of the matter is that the vast VAST majority of people who practice Islam and Christianity are more interested in peace than hate. But terrorism and death are committed under the guidance of each of these religions frequently.

I really can't disagree with anything you've said here.

Unfortunately, when the Muslim extremists blow up people and call it Jihad or in any way, tie it to their religious beliefs, people are going to start thinking that Muslims are indeed a violent people...right or wrong.
 

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
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no one else is mentioning that pic...

am i totally wrong here? that does look like the killer with some kind of long gun (thought he was pointing a pistol at first) and a live victim? i mean shit, that's fucked up. who took the picture?

and yes, it was reported that he was shotgunning downed victim in the head- including those playing dead in hopes he would leave. :( fucked up shit.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
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no one else is mentioning that pic...

am i totally wrong here? that does look like the killer with some kind of long gun (thought he was pointing a pistol at first) and a live victim? i mean shit, that's fucked up. who took the picture?

and yes, it was reported that he was shotgunning downed victim in the head- including those playing dead in hopes he would leave. :( fucked up shit.

To me it looks like a cop holding a tool for dragging in floating bodies.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
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Damn... I'm away from the computer for a few hours and it just got so much worse :(
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
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No, he was arrested. Kind of surprised he wasn't killed by either himself or the police.

Indeed, did he surrender willingly, run out of ammo / gun jam, injured and captured?

Usually nut jobs like this guy go down guns blazing or shoot themselves since it is typically their way of committing suicide and being remembered.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,069
0
81
If it happened in America - he would've been shot and killed.

This is just insane - Norway of all places?! :(
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
44
91
If it happened in America - he would've been shot and killed.

This is just insane - Norway of all places?! :(

Not necessarily. The majority of the killings were at a remote youth camp. Lots of guns in America but I'd be willing to bet that there are probably quite a few youth camps where everyone is unarmed. Also let's not turn this into more of a P&N thread than it already is.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,855
31,345
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If it happened in America - he would've been shot and killed.

This is just insane - Norway of all places?! :(

really? by the police, maybe. In all of the US cases that I can think of, not one of these gunmen had been taken down by an armed citizen.

But the way such gunmen die is usually by way of suicide. I remain surprised that this guy was somehow taken alive.


....word now trickling out that he was connected to some extreme right-wing Christian movement. ruh-roh.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,855
31,345
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No bias at all, claims were made that later turned out to be suspect, may eventually turn out to be true but only time will tell...and the reasons for assumption are massive and don't require any bias at all.

yeah, that's why I mentioned "it happens."

meaning, a very vague and non-descriptive version of "with breaking stories like these and scattered news reports and assumptions leaking out ever couple of minutes, it's easy to latch on to the one shred of information that further validates your assumptions, over other reports that conflict with that those, or simply to realize that these are all unconfirmed, and therefore bear time and real investigation before an actual story can be presented."

;)

and as it seems to be turning out, this appears to be the complete opposite of those assumptions.

I admit that I thought of the possibility, but this being in Norway and with the type of attacks, I was thinking this was more similar to Oklahoma City than Mumbai. Domestic crackhole terrorism rather than Islamic crackhole extremist.
 
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