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North-South Korea meeting - it happened!

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Thunder 57 said:
Yes, I saw your earlier post, and was actually surprised. I hope it works out as well. Thank you for being rational.



So you want to keep US troops there? No thank you.
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Everyone hopes it works out well. That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats won't undermine Republicans when they do the correct thing. The GOP over the last decade will completely change stance on issues just to sabotage Democrats.
 
dank69 said:
Everyone hopes it works out well. That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats won't undermine Republicans when they do the correct thing. The GOP over the last decade will completely change stance on issues just to sabotage Democrats.
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I ,of course have hope the 2 Korea's want peace and we withdraw from the peninsula as do all the countries in that region. The Republican partisans reaction to these talks are predictable. When Bill Clinton negotiated a deal with North Korea, he was a sucker. When Obama negotiated a deal with Iran, he was a sucker. When Moon negotiates a nascent deal with North Korea, OMG TRUMP WINS!!!

Not to mention that Trump just hired a National Security Adviser who could not be further from the "let's use diplomacy with North Korea" camp. The Bolton factor will be interesting indeed.

How does SK decide what the US (read: Trump) will be strongly against? He called Kim an "honorable" man the other day. Maybe SK goes out on a limb and decides to do what's best for SK. This is where Trump's unpredictable mind changing is either a boon or blessing. Are we really talking about Trump being a statesman when he's only months removed from "my nuclear button is bigger" diplomacy?

If Trump did anything to make a difference here, it is himself being or acting like a crazy man. Inside North Korea, all they will say about Trump is 'he's crazy'

Officials there [NK] have long calculated that no US president would risk lives in Seoul with an attack on the North. But under Trump that is no longer a safe assumption, says Andrei Lankov, professor of Korean Studies at Kookmin University

If the two Korea's appear to be working toward some sort of peace agreement, then that puts the US in the position of having to support that agreement, irrespective of whether or not it addresses the concerns of the US and Japan. If the voters in South Korea view the summit positively, that puts the US and Trump in the position of potentially fucking it all up if the Kim-Trump summit somehow breaks down, which would potentially drive a wedge between the US and South Korea.

If, let's say, Kim pledges to President Moon that he will suspend further development of his nuclear program and missile testing and maybe even scrap some of his biological arsenal or offer other minor concessions, then that could be viewed as "progress," particularly if Moon, independent of US and Japan's concerns, views this as a stepping stone toward the end of sanctions against Kim's regime.

Kim may also be angling for an even more powerful play here, which is a direct connection to the South Korean people. Through Moon, he may have opened up a more direct channel of communication to persuade South Koreans that he just wants to be left alone and that the two Koreans can manage their own affairs without other world powers like the US involved. Even among South Koreans, there is a long-standing sentiment that countries have exploited Koreans for their own benefit. Korea has a history of being invaded, occupied, and exploited by larger, more powerful outside powers and Kim knows that he can use that sentiment to his advantage in dealing with the US and Japan.
 
OutHouse said:
pretty sure that Clinton and obama played with the military toys a lot more than trump has. Lets not even talk about both bushes. but for some reason you have forgotten all that because trump is the orange devil.
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I think you will find that my stance on using the Military is pretty consistent. I am not for US military intervention in most cases. My number one criticism of Obama is that he used our military too much, especially for low political cost missile strikes. The Bushes were even worse, I was against both wars in the Middle East.

The problem I have with Trump is that I don't trust that he takes the use of our military seriously. I think he is a braggart that wants to look tough. Maybe this is true, maybe it is not. The problem is he has created that impression, so I don't trust him.
 
pcgeek11 said:
I don't see the link between Libya denucing and the death of Gaddafi eight years later...

Quoting the article:
Eight years after Gaddafi disarmed Libya, he was overthrown by rebels with the backing of NATO. Gaddafi was killed during the fighting.
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This is why. It was a stupid thing for Bolton to say given where we were.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-about/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.73416c504448

“High-ranking officials of the White House and the Department of State including Bolton, White House national security adviser, are letting loose the assertions of a so-called Libya model of nuclear abandonment,” North Korea said in a statement.

The world, North Korea went on to say, “knows too well that our country is neither Libya nor Iraq which met miserable fates.” (Former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was hanged in 2006, and Libya’s Moammar Gaddafi was captured and killed by rebel forces in 2011.)

North Korea appears to have taken offense to Bolton’s suggestion in late April that Libya could serve as a model for persuading North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons program. He has not implied, publicly at least, that the “Libya model” would include regime change in North Korea. Instead, he emphasized in an interview with CBS the need to build trust and verify any denuclearization efforts.
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Bolton has a lot of experience, including being the US Diplomat to the UN. GIven that background it is mind boggling that he would say something so stupid publically. NK has cited for years what happened in Libya as the primary reason they feel the need to have nuclear weapons. So dim-bulb Bolton says we want to do to NK what we did to Libya. Certainly not Art Of The Deal negotiating strategy.

The stupid must be rubbing off on him there in the White House, unless he is blowing up the negotiations on purpose.

OTOH if Bolton gets fired for his incompetence then that's a win for the non-nutjob portion of the USA.
 
Thump553 said:
Bolton has a lot of experience, including being the US Diplomat to the UN. GIven that background it is mind boggling that he would say something so stupid publically. NK has cited for years what happened in Libya as the primary reason they feel the need to have nuclear weapons. So dim-bulb Bolton says we want to do to NK what we did to Libya. Certainly not Art Of The Deal negotiating strategy.

The stupid must be rubbing off on him there in the White House, unless he is blowing up the negotiations on purpose.

OTOH if Bolton gets fired for his incompetence then that's a win for the non-nutjob portion of the USA.
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When was Bolton ever reasonable.
 
Thump553 said:
Bolton has a lot of experience, including being the US Diplomat to the UN. GIven that background it is mind boggling that he would say something so stupid publically. NK has cited for years what happened in Libya as the primary reason they feel the need to have nuclear weapons. So dim-bulb Bolton says we want to do to NK what we did to Libya. Certainly not Art Of The Deal negotiating strategy.

The stupid must be rubbing off on him there in the White House, unless he is blowing up the negotiations on purpose.

OTOH if Bolton gets fired for his incompetence then that's a win for the non-nutjob portion of the USA.
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Uh, nothing has changed from Bolton regarding his "experience" at the UN. He was only appointed that role to specifically troll the UN and anger the rest of the world. This is the exact kind of nonsense he spouted then, and pretty much every human in the diplomatic field around the world hates the guy. He is a walking turd with a mustache. There is literally not one single diplomatic event that he will ever succeed at.
 
pcgeek11 said:
It is equally stupid to join the two events ( Nuclear disarmament and the Overthrowing / Death of Gaddafi ) that are eight years apart and not related in any way.
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If there were nukes then it's likely that people wouldn't have killed Gaddafi by proxy. That's what Kim is thinking and it's not unreasonable. It's easier to strangle a creature if you remove its teeth and claws first. Bolton is clearly referring to Libya and Gaddafi's manner of departure from this world.
 
pcgeek11 said:
It is equally stupid to join the two events ( Nuclear disarmament and the Overthrowing / Death of Gaddafi ) that are eight years apart and not related in any way.
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There is a good argument that he would be alive today if he had nuclear weapons so no, it’s actually very smart to join the two events. Does NATO think a lot harder about whether it’s wise to overthrow him, considering who might get control of his nukes? Absolutely. Very good chance they never intervene at all, or if they do he’s able to use them as huge bargaining chips.

The lesson from Gaddafi and Iraq are both: get nukes ASAP. Kim isn’t stupid and he’s not giving them up in exchange for a security guarantee. Especially not from someone whose word means nothing.
 
The US and South Korea are now cancelling military exercises in order to incentivize North Korea to attend talks it has been asking us to have for almost two decades. Yes, that means the US is now making unilateral concessions in order to have North Korea accept the previous unilateral concessions we made.

At least so far the World’s Greatest Dealmaker is getting rolled yet again.
 
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