Cogman
Lifer
? Vietnam yes. But what was the other time? The korean war, while long, generally went in our favor.
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North Korea threatening physical response this weekend
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? Vietnam yes. But what was the other time? The korean war, while long, generally went in our favor.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
NK knows this very well, so they are just rattling cages in the hope to get more concessions or lifting of sanctions.
Cogman
Lifer
Most likely. I just can't see China ever getting involved in something like this. They have pretty strong economic ties with the US that they aren't going to want to sever any time soon.
jackschmittusa
Diamond Member
CVNs are cheap compared to oversees bases, and we have lost many of those in past years anyway. Any modern conflict requires air superiority to survive, and CVNs are the only way to effectively project air power in many areas of the world. Some overseas airbases have run into problems before by being denied access to the airspace of countries which lay in any practical route to a target. CVNs can move to change routes.
The number that we have takes into account: how many we want on station at any given time in various places in the world, how many might be in some stage of refit, re-supply, or repair at any given time, reinforcement reserves, and both goodwill and saber-rattling voyages.
As far as NK initiating military action, I suggest that we respond with all of our air and sea power to destroy their military might as quickly as possible, but don't put any boots on the ground in NK. No nation building! Let them suffer the consequences of their belligerence.
I actually wonder if they have any workable nukes. Their testing so far has had poor results. I always thought their nuke program was a bargaining chip to trade for groceries and oil, and only collaterally as a "we're too bad to be screwed with" scare tactic.
The number that we have takes into account: how many we want on station at any given time in various places in the world, how many might be in some stage of refit, re-supply, or repair at any given time, reinforcement reserves, and both goodwill and saber-rattling voyages.
As far as NK initiating military action, I suggest that we respond with all of our air and sea power to destroy their military might as quickly as possible, but don't put any boots on the ground in NK. No nation building! Let them suffer the consequences of their belligerence.
I actually wonder if they have any workable nukes. Their testing so far has had poor results. I always thought their nuke program was a bargaining chip to trade for groceries and oil, and only collaterally as a "we're too bad to be screwed with" scare tactic.
hal2kilo
Lifer
I agree completely. Now that China is now a capitalist Communist country at certain levels, and theyve loaned us so much money (and like to keep receiving interest), I don't think they relish (except for the old hard liners) defending the actions of NK so much anymore.
PeshakJang
Platinum Member
Just to round-out the starcraft jokes
hal2kilo
Lifer
You know I actually understand what you're saying most of the time and agree with you most of the time, but there's no reasoning with this regime. Is it OK that they sank another soverign's ship, and killed 200+ souls with no expectation of a response?
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
I wonder what would happen if Jong's son said, "Hell, let's just end this whole show and go make up with the Southerners." I guess we'd never hear the words but instead find out he was killed in an airplane crash or "an assassination attempt by the CIA" and the NK military would take control instead.
How do nations typically emerge from dictatorships? The army usually steps in after some time and says enough is enough, right? I wonder what NK's military leadership is like.
Oh, and in terms of what NATO should do - let it be South Korea's call. If they want to roll on NK, I'm on board with letting them do it.
How do nations typically emerge from dictatorships? The army usually steps in after some time and says enough is enough, right? I wonder what NK's military leadership is like.
Oh, and in terms of what NATO should do - let it be South Korea's call. If they want to roll on NK, I'm on board with letting them do it.
I think the point of my post was that any notions I have as to what to do would be based on naiveté and lack of perspective and filled with unintended and unknowable consequences. I think it is a very very tough question and any obvious or simple answers would have long ago been affected.
One question you might what to ask is whether the existence of an irritant like N K must necessarily have an answer or solution that brings calm to you. Where did we get the idea that everything should be as we wish? I know that everything changes and I know that everything that is will one day disappear, including North Korea.
hal2kilo
Lifer
My problem is that I truely believe we are dealing with psychotics with nukes. Unlike others on this forum, I don't think Iran or Pakistan are.
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Jaskalas
Lifer
Murderers will one day disappear, why must we have solutions for handling them?
PS: I would drop little bundles of food by the millions with "From the USA with love for our friends who live in North Korea under a brutal cruel and senseless dictatorship and can't even feed its own people while we free folk in the West have so much wealth to burn and food to eat we are dropping it on you." written on them.
hal2kilo
Lifer
I have no problem with that at all.
I have told you over and over what your problem is Jaskalas. You are a coward. You want others to make the world safe for you. You want them to kill in your name so you can feel safe, but you can't ever feel safe because your fear is irrational and insane. Everything you fear has already happened to you and you don't remember.
But the answer to your question in practical terms is just as easy. If you capture a murderer, try and convict him, you put him or her in jail so they can't kill again. When you have a murderer who has a bunch of hostages you deal with those much more difficult complications first. You do not think clearly so don't bother to attempt to create parallels that aren't parallels anywhere but in your imagination.
When you have a sheep, a wolf, and a cabbage in your possession as I do and like to cross rivers but can ford them carrying only one at a time, you learn that any real solution requires one to apply oneself in an extra dimension, in this case the dimension of seeming unproductive effort.
I would throw some of them hand held TVs in those bundles too and broadcast from satellite news from the outside world.
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
We have been stationed there forever already anyway, but we wouldn't need to nation build there because South Korea is a sane country that can take those reins, unlike some of the places we have been involved in recently.
PeshakJang
Platinum Member
So ironic, coming from the guy who spent 20 pages arguing for government gun bans.
You're such a scared, pathetic little child, Moonbeam, and now we can add coward to that list.
blackangst1
Lifer
Personally, Im sure the US and SK are watching NK very closely, and probably us via the air and satellite. The minute a missle pokes out of a silo, game over.
Modelworks
Lifer
yep.
We brought the new F-22 jets to this exercise that have the new stealth systems. There are 4 on the carrier now with a total 12 planned by the end of the exercises.
What I don't get is the reason the US is giving for the exercise. A show of strength ? Does someone actually think that because we send some ships out and some jets that NK will suddenly go , "they have big ships we better behave" ?
manimal
Lifer
Sadly if we had never gone into iraq we may have had the stones to do something about this mess...
The real question is how much damage would SK incur in the invasion? It would have to be a proper invasion and decapitation of military infrastructure since they have the most to lose. I do not think the world has the stomach to see the aftermath of what would ensue. How many civilians would die?
South Korea would take a big beating from artillery. The world economy would take a major hit if the productivity from SK was severely damaged in the short term.
wonder what a EMP blast near the militarized zone would do? Artillery would still work though...
The real question is how much damage would SK incur in the invasion? It would have to be a proper invasion and decapitation of military infrastructure since they have the most to lose. I do not think the world has the stomach to see the aftermath of what would ensue. How many civilians would die?
South Korea would take a big beating from artillery. The world economy would take a major hit if the productivity from SK was severely damaged in the short term.
wonder what a EMP blast near the militarized zone would do? Artillery would still work though...
The USA has a joint exercise including airforce, Navy, Army every year around the area of South Korea called Team Spirit.
North Korea has odd exercises too. They use to do this exercise with Armor and tanks where the take of like no tomorrow toward the DMZ. When they get to the border they make a 90 degree turn and line up along the border. It is meant to put fear into their southern neighbors.
For 50 years South Korea has been under threat from the communist murderers in the north. One day South Korea will have had enough and decide to fight back. As long as there is a stalemate that day will not come. When North Korea goes to far, it will be all out war. So far they are just madmen making idle threats. So for now we do not need to hasten and run headlong into battle, when we can still hope for unification. The world never believed that the Berlin wall would fall, So North korea and South Korea should continue to have hope for unification when the lying Facist Communist murders die or give up.
North Korea has odd exercises too. They use to do this exercise with Armor and tanks where the take of like no tomorrow toward the DMZ. When they get to the border they make a 90 degree turn and line up along the border. It is meant to put fear into their southern neighbors.
For 50 years South Korea has been under threat from the communist murderers in the north. One day South Korea will have had enough and decide to fight back. As long as there is a stalemate that day will not come. When North Korea goes to far, it will be all out war. So far they are just madmen making idle threats. So for now we do not need to hasten and run headlong into battle, when we can still hope for unification. The world never believed that the Berlin wall would fall, So North korea and South Korea should continue to have hope for unification when the lying Facist Communist murders die or give up.
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