Nook Color?

[poofyhairguy]

The "import from camera" option might be the reason, as someone mentioned.

With the newest CM7 a camera spoof was added to allow people to install apps with a camera dependency. You have to wipe install (or at least wipe all caches) for it to work though, and right now nightly CM7 is a minefield cause they changed the file system so I don't recommend it.

As soon as it stabilizes, I will post in the sticky thread. Probably in like a day.

I'm pretty sure that B&N was answering questions about the hardware and roadmap for XDA/Nookdevs' developers, too.

Even better- a VP of the company communicates directly with the CM7 team and has helped rush out the kernel source for development. They know we exist and they don't care- we are increasing the install base for their device. I too have bought a few books I will never read just to support B&N.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I really don't think that B&N used an unsigned bootloader and the ability to boot from SD with the idea that hackers would use it to install Android. Maybe some of the bottom-rung engineers might have thought of it, but I can't imagine anyone higher up in the company even considered the idea.

It boots from a SD Micro, but its update process doesn't use this in any way. I don't think that is a mistake-its a feature.

People booting Android onto their Nooks dilutes (or at least adds uncertainty) to this user base number, it adds some support issues ("I bricked my Nook. I want to exchange it for a working one")

There is no support issue. In B&N's eyes once you root it or change the ROM, the warranty is lost. If you don't have the smarts to get it back to stock, you are stuck with the device.

With that said, once you do go back to stock they don't fight you on RMAs. When I got mine exchanged for a new one (mine had a few dead pixels that eventually I got tired of looking at) the B&N guy didn't even ask if I had rooted the device. They just said "does it make it hard to read? Yes? Here is a new one!"

I can't see any upside for it for B&N at all. I mean what do they get out of it?

They get to tell publishers "we sold a million of these things." Every person that buys one to hack increases the install base, which increases the leverage that B&N has over publishers.

I wonder what the total percentage is.

Recent stats show that about 6000 people use the CM7 version for the Nook Color worldwide.

I don't think B&N did this at all on purpose - I think they added features that they thought would give them a leg up on Amazon's Kindle, and happened to leave a bunch of security holes in the device because they are new to all of this and didn't think of it.

The device is too good to be a mistake. PERFECT amount of RAM. Just enough GPU. World-class screen. Many many companies are trying to make a low cost tablet, B&N NAILS it, and you think its a mistake?

I think more likely whoever designed the Nook Color knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and they sold B&N on the concept that "the hackers can't hurt you."

 

[sjwaste]

I've heard the merge of the 2.3.4 codebase is really fucking things up - so I'm staying where I am for a while. I am running the 4/17/2011 nightly (forget what # that is) and it's been incredible with Dalingrin's 1.3 GHz OC kernel. This particular nightly has been more stable than the 7.0 release, in fact, not that I had major problems with that or anything.

 

[pm]

Even better- a VP of the company communicates directly with the CM7 team and has helped rush out the kernel source for development. They know we exist and they don't care- we are increasing the install base for their device. I too have bought a few books I will never read just to support B&N.

So I'm not going to debate all of your points one by one because I don't really have time and it's clear that you are very enthusiastic about this, you've partially convinced me, and it's not important enough to me to debate the bits that I don't agree with. As say, I'm more convinced... but still my experience with executives is that they barely understand how to turn on their Blackberries - they are smart people people, very good at politics, deal-making and business decisions, but the long term impacts of subtle engineering design decisions... I don't see it... we may have to agree to disagree on this.

I will say that I read up on the VP and I didn't read it as he rushed the kernel source for development - they have a contractual obligation under the GNU license to release the source code in a timely manner when someone requests that code from them. A contractual obligation to release code in a timely manner is not the same as actively supporting hacker efforts.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Yeah the original 7.00 release has an ALSA issue that made playback poor. The newest stable is fine though.

I am excited about the new developments even if things are crazy now. When I played with the newest kernel build things felt very responsive for lacking an overclock, and the fact that it will lead to working sleep and hopefully better bluetooth is win-win.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

Now what about lag issues, I noticed someone said something earlier in the thread about it but I was just messing around with my friends pandigital and I will tell you that if the nook lags anything like that then B&N can keep their damn money.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I will say that I read up on the VP and I didn't read it as he rushed the kernel source for development - they have a contractual obligation under the GNU license to release the source code in a timely manner when someone requests that code from them. A contractual obligation to release code in a timely manner is not the same as actively supporting hacker efforts.

Originally a B&N developer told the community that they planned to release the source a few weeks after the 1.2 update, which is the same timeline they followed with previous updates. Once the CM7 team contacted them it was routed to a very helpful VP who seemed very positive about the community around the Nook. After that contact, with no harsh words traded, a few weeks turned into a day.

B&N didn't have to rush out the source- I think 60 days is the unofficial accepted standard for the GPL. Their policy in place was to wait about two weeks to release the source, which was what happened in the past. The VP got involved, and the policy got changed. I count that as rushing the source.

But you are right- I am a B&N fanboy now so I could be viewing things through rose colored glasses. They are a technology company that doesn't know they are a technology company, which means they don't have the jaded perspective about the hacking community that many technology companies do (Moto, Apple, Sony, etc.).

Maybe by the Nook Color 2 they will learn to hate their customers just like so many other companies seem to do.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Now what about lag issues, I noticed someone said something earlier in the thread about it but I was just messing around with my friends pandigital and I will tell you that if the nook lags anything like that then B&N can keep their damn money.

The Nook Color has twice the RAM, a faster CPU (MUCH faster at 1.3GHz), a better GPU, and sports newer versions of Android. Its a difference class of device, especially using CM7 with all tweaks applied.

The only ROM on the Nook Color that lags badly is Honeycomb, because its basically a tech demo.

This video is a pretty good indication of its smoothness once tweaked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLnRKScLpd0

 

[MagickMan]

Running CM7 w/ 1.3GHz OC mine doesn't lag at all, period. In fact, in terms of responsiveness, it blows the doors off any other Android tablet I've used, including the Xoom. The only thing that beats it hands-down is the iPad2, I just wish iOS could be customized as much as CM7.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

Are all the models of the nook color the same? I know when I bought my psp and was going to hack it I had to find a 1000 model at the time for the hack to be able to work, does the same principle apply for the nook color?

 

[poofyhairguy]

They are all the same model. They haven't changed one bit since launch.

The actual units aren't equivalent though- some have an easier time with overclocking than others, but that is always the case with overclocking.

 

[sjwaste]

Yeah the original 7.00 release has an ALSA issue that made playback poor. The newest stable is fine though.

I am excited about the new developments even if things are crazy now. When I played with the newest kernel build things felt very responsive for lacking an overclock, and the fact that it will lead to working sleep and hopefully better bluetooth is win-win.

Is the newest nightly useable as a daily driver, and does it sleep completely? If so, I will flash now. Or are you playing with something that hasn't been merged into the tree yet?

 

[sjwaste]

I really don't think that B&N used an unsigned bootloader and the ability to boot from SD with the idea that hackers would use it to install Android. Maybe some of the bottom-rung engineers might have thought of it, but I can't imagine anyone higher up in the company even considered the idea. It's like the fact that Apple and Infinieon didn't lock the JTAG port on their baseband processor on the first iPhone... they didn't do this to make it easy for hackers to hack the hardware, they did it because they didn't consider the possibility that an unlocked JTAG port could be used to unlock the phone.

I think the NC is cheap because B&N felt they needed a lower price point to increase sales to secure a large number of users so that they can better compete with Amazon in the ebook market. People booting Android onto their Nooks dilutes (or at least adds uncertainty) to this user base number, it adds some support issues ("I bricked my Nook. I want to exchange it for a working one"), and I can't see any upside for it for B&N at all. I mean what do they get out of it? They sold a device with almost no margins on it - they can't be making a lot of money on the sale - to a decent sized group of people who won't use it primarily to buy B&N ebooks. It might be that there aren't that many people sticking Android on NC's and so this whole thing is a small percentage... except that I personally see and hear a lot of people doing it. I wonder what the total percentage is.

You may think highly of the company because you think you got a good deal on an Android tablet and that may translate to you possibly doing more business with them, but I think a lot more people rooted their NC's and then installed the Kindle app.

I don't think B&N did this at all on purpose - I think they added features that they thought would give them a leg up on Amazon's Kindle, and happened to leave a bunch of security holes in the device because they are new to all of this and didn't think of it.

That's a reasonable perspective, but you have to remember that the Nook Color isn't B&N's first android tablet. The E-Ink Nooks run Android too, and were all rooted long before the NC came out. I'm not saying they purposely included those features, but I do think they didn't go out of their way to secure the device because when it really gets down to it, there's no compelling reason to do so.

I realize all evidence is anecdotal, but people are bringing these things into the store for support in rooted form and they are getting help from B&N. It is a great product, and I think it still would be if B&N was trying harder to keep it locked down, but I appreciate the fact that they aren't and I'm spending a good amount of money in return.

Installing other software may mean that the device's primary purpose is no longer to be an e-reader, but it also means that it spends more time with me. In turn, that means I spend more time on it, and I do like to read.

Again, sample size of 1, but I wasn't even entertaining the idea of a Nook over a Kindle when I first started thinking about an e-reader. Then people started showing off the cool things they were doing with their Nook, and I was sold. Rooting just meant I could install the Kindle app to read the stuff I'd already bought with Amazon. Win-win.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally a B&N developer told the community that they planned to release the source a few weeks after the 1.2 update, which is the same timeline they followed with previous updates. Once the CM7 team contacted them it was routed to a very helpful VP who seemed very positive about the community around the Nook. After that contact, with no harsh words traded, a few weeks turned into a day.

B&N didn't have to rush out the source- I think 60 days is the unofficial accepted standard for the GPL. Their policy in place was to wait about two weeks to release the source, which was what happened in the past. The VP got involved, and the policy got changed. I count that as rushing the source.

But you are right- I am a B&N fanboy now so I could be viewing things through rose colored glasses. They are a technology company that doesn't know they are a technology company, which means they don't have the jaded perspective about the hacking community that many technology companies do (Moto, Apple, Sony, etc.).

Maybe by the Nook Color 2 they will learn to hate their customers just like so many other companies seem to do.

Your story is correct, at least as far as I followed it. I'm a bit of a fanboy too, but I have to say, a friggin' Barnes and Noble fanboy is probably the last thing I thought I'd ever be. Hell, if you asked me a year ago if such a thing would ever even exist, I'd have laughed.

Part of the reason they don't lock down is because they don't have to, though. There's no carrier network to "protect" so no real reason to lock it up.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Is the newest nightly useable as a daily driver, and does it sleep completely? If so, I will flash now. Or are you playing with something that hasn't been merged into the tree yet?

The sleep improvements are in a separate branch, and that branch has MANY other things broken (bluetooth, overclocking, video playback, etc.). I wouldn't recommend it yet.

This branch is based directly on B&N's new kernel source. The CM7 developers are quickly ripping out these working parts to form a stable singular branch. I expect it to be maybe a week tops till it merges back with the main tree. I will be sure to post when its ready.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

You guys have answered most of my questions and more and I greatly appreciate it. Now I have one more question, games, what kind of games would I be able to play on it. I need something that will keep occupied at work through slow nights.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I mostly use the Amazon app store:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...d_i=2478844011

My favorites are the typical Angry Bird, Fruit Ninja, with a psx4droid thrown in:

http://www.zodttd.com/wp/2011/04/psx4droid-updated-to-3-0-5/

 

[Goosemaster]

My comment:

Got the sucker for $180 ($50 GC + 10% off) at BB tonight am am absolutely thrilled at the value for the money.

 

[Goosemaster]

<--just got CM7 working.... OMFG.

 

[MagickMan]

My only real complaint, other than a few issues with CM7 bugginess, is the battery. With wifi on, browsing around, and the screen @30&#37;, the battery goes down almost as fast as a drunken prom date. Now that I've been using the iPad 2 for a few days, all I can say is HOLY S**T! I've been using this thing off and on for a whole day, with wifi on, and it's at >50%?!?

Still, for the price, the NC is a kick-ass gadget, no doubt. Worth every penny. I'm probably going to keep my NC, just to have a nice Android tablet for when HC finally comes to it, but it's not going to get used nearly as much anymore.

 

[poofyhairguy]

You should try a newer build of CM7 if you can. Sleep isn't fixed yet, but the operating battery life is much improved.

That is the good thing about open development- everything that we have problems with the developers have problems with, and therefore they are motivated to fix our problems.

 

[Sheep]

<--just got CM7 working.... OMFG.

Now install a new kernel and OC that sucker. I recommend Dalingrin's 4/24 which has been nearly flawless for me and produces a noticeably smoother experience than stock (in combination with CM 7.0.2 stable).

 

[Midwayman]

How is it with fairly heavy PDF files? Many of the game manuals I want to view are 50-60 mb. On my epic 4g it takes a long time to pull up PDF files that large. Enough that its not something I'd want to use day to day. Is the NC faster?

 

[MagickMan]

How is it with fairly heavy PDF files? Many of the game manuals I want to view are 50-60 mb. On my epic 4g it takes a long time to pull up PDF files that large. Enough that its not something I'd want to use day to day. Is the NC faster?

It seems to pull them up in chunks and loads more of the file as you need it.

 

[Goosemaster]

My only real complaint, other than a few issues with CM7 bugginess, is the battery. With wifi on, browsing around, and the screen @30&#37;, the battery goes down almost as fast as a drunken prom date. .

Can you be more specific?

Now install a new kernel and OC that sucker. I recommend Dalingrin's 4/24 which has been nearly flawless for me and produces a noticeably smoother experience than stock (in combination with CM 7.0.2 stable).

I am using CM7 build 67 and found various folks saying that it's 924mhz was quite comparable to the kernel you mentioned. Feedback?

So far I really like it. It should last me until I see how Transformer does.