NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[Roger Wilco]

UK, Germany, and Italy now reporting Omicron.

Rampant Covid variant spreads to UK, Germany and Italy

The new potentially more contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus popped up in more European countries on Saturday.

www.cnbc.com

 

[manly]

It's appeared in Belgium already. An unvaccinated person who travelled to (or came from) Egypt, apparently.

The WHO has already made a statement urging countries not to be too quick to impose international travel restrictions. I have to say I don't get the WHO. They seem to have been all-over-the-shop since the start of this. One moment telling everyone to lock down as comprehensively as China did, the next decrying any restrictions on travel. Reproaching countries for restricting flights from China, while praising China for restricting flights _within_ China. Now they seem to be back to defending international travel again, as if that's the main priority with a new variant emerging.

Here's the thing. In today's globally connected world, it is incredibly disruptive to totally close your international borders. Few countries bothered to do this, although it can keep an infectious disease out if you're strict enough (i.e. China or NZ). Politics aside, the WHO has been consistent for a long time that the real measures you need to take are stringent screenings of incoming travelers. This necessarily includes immediate PCR testing and mandatory quarantine.

The infamous Trump travel bans are an example of half measures that had very little effect on the course of the pandemic. Originally it banned non-Americans returning from China, as if returning Americans couldn't be infected. Meanwhile, we unknowingly allowed plenty of infections to fly in via Europe without any testing or screening at the point of entry. By the time the Trump admin banned flights from Europe (sans UK lol), it was far too late. The shit show of Americans hastily returning en masse from Europe without any health screenings itself became a superspreader event. These events of February/March 2020 are what seeded the first COVID wave in the U.S.

Most likely if the play is to ban air travel from south African nations, history is likely to repeat itself. You're not going to be able to shut out Omicron with such a targeted policy.

 

[Red Squirrel]

As @Captante said, Red's a good guy. Been around here for evah. He just doesn't seem to be able to grok the COVID/Vaccine science. Lot's of people can't. There's just so much one can do to help. In some respects, it not surprising. Between some mixed messages in the early information on SARS-COV-19, due to a lack of understanding, and the horrible job our mass media has done in helping people understand what we need to do now** - too many people really are confused about what to do. Never mind the trash heap of information that social media is 🙄.

** News outlets in America died when media corporations decided they had to be 'profit centers'.

I guess my point with all this is I'm just sick of seeing the crazy narrative behind wanting EVERYONE vaccinated and the two tier society they are creating in order to try to get to that point. There will always be people who don't want it and as long as the percentage of overall vaccination is high, which it is now, then we should really just move on from all of this. The whole thing with firing them or not letting them anywhere, and having vax passports etc is just too far IMO.

The risk factor of being close to someone unvaccinated vs not, is not THAT high if you are vaccinated. It's not like you are GUARANTEED to die if you are close to someone unvaccinated, but that's the narrative they seem to be pushing and it has created a hostile society that celebrates anything bad that happens to the unvax and it's getting ugly. Especially now that they can't even get EI when they lose their job as the government will not give EI to someone that lost their job due to not being vaxed. Some of these people are legit worried about what the vax can do to their bodies especially with all the reports of people just dropping dead after taking it. I took my chances as I did not know about the potential heart complications before I took it and I figured risk of covid is higher. But not everyone sees it that way.

As for risk being near unvax, there are a lot of factors to account for, such as if they even have the virus, then the actual virus load that you get, and then whether or not the vaccine works to protect you. By the time you factor all these odds, the odds are in your favour for you not to even get sick. So I say who cares if there are unvaccinated people around, it's their choice and they are the ones putting themselves at risk more than us. We should be moving on from this and getting rid of all the new laws that have been created since 2020 and also get rid of the new ID system and cancel the digital ID that is coming in 2022.

I don't think this virus is ever going to go away due to how easily it spreads. We should focus on how to treat it at this point and expand hospital capacity as needed. We could have eradicated it at the start if we had proper lock downs with zero traveling even between cities but now it's too late.

There are people who think the horse dewormer stuff works, has this actually been clinically tested or just shot down without consideration? Is there perhaps another drug that might work? This is what they should be working on right now, try to find a way to treat it, either with existing drugs or a new one.

 

[balloonshark]

Time to grab some masks or grab a half or full face respirator and cartridges?

If so what are you all using and at what store?

 

[Torn Mind]

There are people who think the horse dewormer stuff works, has this actually been clinically tested or just shot down without consideration? Is there perhaps another drug that might work? This is what they should be working on right now, try to find a way to treat it, either with existing drugs or a new one.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389

Might not do much in a population of originally healthy individuals with mild COVID-19. Won't harm them either.

The study leaves it an open-ended question about its effectiveness in other scenarios since their sample didn't cover such cases(didn't have enough people)

Dismissing it due to horse dewormer is however, a manifestation of stupidity, mainly that populace does respond well to it. Just like we shouldn't eat pot degreaser in cakes, pies, and bread(baking soda). Or how vegans claim it is unnatural to eat meat. Humans are such purists...sometimes....

 

[manly]

Time to grab some masks or grab a half or full face respirator and cartridges?

If so what are you all using and at what store?

Bona Fide Masks is the official U.S. distributor of a good KN95 mask at reasonable prices.

10-Pack Powecom® White Ear Loop KN95 masks – made to the new standard GB2626-2019 $7.48

Bona Fide Masks [bonafidemasks.com] has White Powecom® KN95 Respirator Face Mask - Ear Loop - 10 masks per pack - Made to the NEW GB2626-2019 Standard with Better Breathability for $7.48 with code: E

slickdeals.net

 

[K1052]

The whole thing with firing them or not letting them anywhere, and having vax passports etc is just too far IMO.

Nope, we need more of this.

The risk factor of being close to someone unvaccinated vs not, is not THAT high if you are vaccinated. It's not like you are GUARANTEED to die if you are close to someone unvaccinated, but that's the narrative they seem to be pushing and it has created a hostile society that celebrates anything bad that happens to the unvax and it's getting ugly. Especially now that they can't even get EI when they lose their job as the government will not give EI to someone that lost their job due to not being vaxed. Some of these people are legit worried about what the vax can do to their bodies especially with all the reports of people just dropping dead after taking it. I took my chances as I did not know about the potential heart complications before I took it and I figured risk of covid is higher. But not everyone sees it that way.

We know that infected unvaccinated people carry higher viral loads for much longer than vaccinated people who clear a lot faster, if there even is a breakthrough. So this is just wrong. Also the longer people are infected the more opportunities for troublesome variants to arise. Nobody is dropping dead after getting the vaccine but they sure are after getting the virus. I'm not going to coddle the willfully misinformed.

As for risk being near unvax, there are a lot of factors to account for, such as if they even have the virus, then the actual virus load that you get, and then whether or not the vaccine works to protect you. By the time you factor all these odds, the odds are in your favour for you not to even get sick. So I say who cares if there are unvaccinated people around, it's their choice and they are the ones putting themselves at risk more than us. We should be moving on from this and getting rid of all the new laws that have been created since 2020 and also get rid of the new ID system and cancel the digital ID that is coming in 2022.

I forgot where I agreed or should be compelled to let other people take risks with my health, which is what the above suggests. I'm entirely pro making the lives of the unvaccinated as difficult as possible.

I don't think this virus is ever going to go away due to how easily it spreads. We should focus on how to treat it at this point and expand hospital capacity as needed. We could have eradicated it at the start if we had proper lock downs with zero traveling even between cities but now it's too late.

This argument was made at the beginning of the pandemic millions of deaths ago. Simply pointless. The only reasons the entire medical system hasn't collapsed in the face of Delta is because most people are responsible enough to get vaccinated.

There are people who think the horse dewormer stuff works, has this actually been clinically tested or just shot down without consideration?

Absolutely categorically does not cure Covid in dozens of studies.

Is there perhaps another drug that might work?

Like um a vaccine? We're coming up on antivirals but they're not going to be foolproof.

This is what they should be working on right now, try to find a way to treat it, either with existing drugs or a new one.

We have improving treatments but they all have limitations. When somebody shows up at the hospital with 65% oxygen saturation their organs are already f'd because they thought they could cure it with God and chicken soup.

 

[balloonshark]

Bona Fide Masks is the official U.S. distributor of a good KN95 mask at reasonable prices.

10-Pack Powecom® White Ear Loop KN95 masks – made to the new standard GB2626-2019 $7.48

Bona Fide Masks [bonafidemasks.com] has White Powecom® KN95 Respirator Face Mask - Ear Loop - 10 masks per pack - Made to the NEW GB2626-2019 Standard with Better Breathability for $7.48 with code: E

slickdeals.net

Thanks. I have that site bookmarked but they want about the same price for kn95 masks as the 3m n95 masks on Amazon.

 

[manly]

Thanks. I have that site bookmarked but they want about the same price for kn95 masks as the 3m n95 masks on Amazon.

Bona Fide Masks typically wants about 80c per mask, or less if you buy in bulk. It can be a little dodgy buying stuff on Amazon, and if you can get 3M N95s for 80c/ea, I would be skeptical of authenticity.

The cheapest N95s appear to be the Kimberly-Clark pouch respirators (50pk for $42), but in general I'd rather wear earloop style masks than headband style respirators in most settings. At the gym I wear a surgical style mask because I don't think I can handle a KN95.

The Wirecutter has recommendations:

Where to Buy N95s, KN95s, and Surgical-Style Masks in 2022

We’ve tested 37 of the best N95 masks, KN95 masks, and surgical masks and confirmed their filtration claims with expert government agencies or our own lab testing. Here’s what we recommend.

www.nytimes.com

 

[nisryus]

The KC mask is not medical graded. but i found this one which has better filtration (98%+, vs 95% of KC and other N95)

DemeTECH N95 Respirator

 

[balloonshark]

Bona Fide Masks typically wants about 80c per mask, or less if you buy in bulk. It can be a little dodgy buying stuff on Amazon, and if you can get 3M N95s for 80c/ea, I would be skeptical of authenticity.

The cheapest N95s appear to be the Kimberly-Clark pouch respirators (50pk for $42), but in general I'd rather wear earloop style masks than headband style respirators in most settings. At the gym I wear a surgical style mask because I don't think I can handle a KN95.

The Wirecutter has recommendations:

Where to Buy N95s, KN95s, and Surgical-Style Masks in 2022

We’ve tested 37 of the best N95 masks, KN95 masks, and surgical masks and confirmed their filtration claims with expert government agencies or our own lab testing. Here’s what we recommend.

www.nytimes.com

I was looking at these. They are shipped and sold by amazon. Some of the reviews says the straps break easily though. They even say that on the 3m site.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Particulate-Respirator-8210-Pack/dp/B008MCUZZS/

 

[Spacehead]

...We're coming up on antivirals but they're not going to be foolproof.

Is that what the pills are that Pfizer(i think) just came out with? Someone was asking me about those the other day. Is that only for after you've been tested positive & showing symptoms that you would take that? It's not a pre-emptive medicine is it?

 

[njdevilsfan87]

There's no reason not to get a booster, imo. If this new variant evades immunity, then it's not like Delta is going to go away. At least you'll be well protected against that. We're now scheduled for Dec 7th. A lot of places seem booked up now.

 

[Charmonium]

I'm having a surgery in a few days. I already showed my doctor my vax card. He didn't ask for it, but I figured it wasn't a bad idea to put him straight. It's oral surgery, after all.

My dentist was the same. My guess is that aside from nitrous, oral surgery normally only requires a local. See if they have Articaine. I googled this a while ago and according my wonky memory (you've been warned), it was/is the "#1" used local in Europe and excluding placebo effect, I think it might work better for me too.

The KC mask is not medical graded. but i found this one which has better filtration (98%+, vs 95% of KC and other N95)
DemeTECH N95 Respirator

Just remember that only covers 95%. If everyone wears them, that's fine. But we know how that goes.

I'm surprised they have the balls to call that a respirator since it's not . . . well, that's except for the fact that according to google and Oxford, it is nonetheless still recognized as such.

I both love and hate language creep. Hate from the fact that I have to say "literally, literally" as opposed to just one "literally" which has as one definition "not literally."

 

[pmv]

Politics aside, the WHO has been consistent for a long time that the real measures you need to take are stringent screenings of incoming travelers. This necessarily includes immediate PCR testing and mandatory quarantine.

The curious thing about that is, that they just had two plane loads of travellers arrive in the Netherlands from SA, and they all had had negative tests before being allowed to fly, yet on arrival 10% of them turned out to be COVID positive.

Suggests either the new variant is not showing up on PCR tests, or some of those SA testing labs are screwing up, or people are getting fake test results.

 

[pmv]

Here's the thing. In today's globally connected world, it is incredibly disruptive to totally close your international borders.

On this point, I just remember my irritation back at the start of the pandemic, when it was blindingly obvious that infections were being bought into the country by bourgie holiday-makers going on ski-ing trips to Italy or Switzerland, and yet nothing was done to stop it. I don't think posh people's ski-ing holidays qualify as an essential part of the economy.

And why was it not considered 'incredibly disruptive' to shut down an entire country domestically, and, say, ban less well off urban people from using their local park to get some fresh air or exercise? The contrast between the reluctance to restrict international travel by businesspeople and posh holiday-makers, and the eagerness to lock down everything for the less well-off domestically, really irritated me.

 

[Red Squirrel]

On this point, I just remember my irritation back at the start of the pandemic, when it was blindingly obvious that infections were being bought into the country by bourgie holiday-makers going on ski-ing trips to Italy or Switzerland, and yet nothing was done to stop it. I don't think posh people's ski-ing holidays qualify as an essential part of the economy.

And why was it not considered 'incredibly disruptive' to shut down an entire country domestically, and, say, ban less well off urban people from using their local park to get some fresh air or exercise? The contrast between the reluctance to restrict international travel by businesspeople and posh holiday-makers, and the eagerness to lock down everything for the less well-off domestically, really irritated me.

I felt the same way, why make travel a free for all while at the same time restricting local movement and even going as far as telling people how many people they can have in their very own home? Should have been the other way around. Should have bubbled regions, let people within those regions live normal lives if there are no cases, but nobody can exit their own bubble or enter another one. Eventually combine nearby bubbles if they have 0 cases for over 3-4 weeks. If banning any travel is against the charter of rights then just don't fine anyone who circumvents it. I don't think having accessible roads or airplanes is in the charter. Ground planes, block roads, close skidoo trails and that will stop 99% of people.

 

[K1052]

Is that what the pills are that Pfizer(i think) just came out with? Someone was asking me about those the other day. Is that only for after you've been tested positive & showing symptoms that you would take that? It's not a pre-emptive medicine is it?

I don't think they tried either them for pre-exposure. Given limited availability for at least the first year of these pills I'm not a fan of even trying it this way either. The vaccine is pre-exposure protection, people should take it.

 

[K1052]

The curious thing about that is, that they just had two plane loads of travellers arrive in the Netherlands from SA, and they all had had negative tests before being allowed to fly, yet on arrival 10% of them turned out to be COVID positive.

Suggests either the new variant is not showing up on PCR tests, or some of those SA testing labs are screwing up, or people are getting fake test results.

There is a gap between infection and when you'll pop positive on an antigen or PCR test. That said 10% incidence is rather high...
It may not be a matter of "screwing up" but some tests could potentially be less sensitive to Omicron than others. I know people are looking into that.

I'm more curious what the breakdown of vaccinated vs unvaccinated infections looks like along with what flavor they've got.

 

[Muse]

My dentist was the same. My guess is that aside from nitrous, oral surgery normally only requires a local. See if they have Articaine. I googled this a while ago and according my wonky memory (you've been warned), it was/is the "#1" used local in Europe and excluding placebo effect, I think it might work better for me too.

I asked my endodontist what anesthetic he used for the root canal a couple weeks ago and he said Septocaine. Said they use a lot less than other anesthetics and it seems somewhat more reliable.

Septocaine® - Septodont - Henry Schein Dental

Worldwide distributor of dental and medical healthcare products, services and supplies

www.henryschein.com

 

[Ajay]

Ugh, trying to get a booster about a month later than originally intended. There is a minimum wait time of 6 weeks in my city 😳. I need to call my doc to see one of the nurses at the practice can get to me soon.

The good news is that allot more people are being vaccinated. That bad news is we just don’t have enough capacity since the mass vaccination sites (national guard & EMT staffed) have shut down. I’m a bit annoyed right now with our cheapskate executive branches decision to not keep at least one open in each major city 🙄.

 

[K1052]

Ugh, trying to get a booster about a month later than originally intended. There is a minimum wait time of 6 weeks in my city 😳. I need to call my doc to see one of the nurses at the practice can get to me soon.

The good news is that allot more people are being vaccinated. That bad news is we just don’t have enough capacity since the mass vaccination sites (national guard & EMT staffed) have shut down. I’m a bit annoyed right now with our cheapskate executive branches decision to not keep at least one open in each major city 🙄.

FYI if you're able to travel a bit afield you can find doses. Certain maps from around November 4th last year are instructive of where to look.

 

[Captante]

FYI if you're able to travel a bit afield you can find doses. Certain maps from around November 4th last year are instructive of where to look.

I concur.... just took a look @ Walgreens and CVS websites in the New Haven and Hartford areas and I could get a booster later this afternoon or tomorrow at any time if I didn't already get one... Moderna or Pfizer my choice.

Of course if you're in Northern NH it could be a bit of a schlepp lol. 😉

 

[Spacehead]

I don't think they tried either them for pre-exposure. Given limited availability for at least the first year of these pills I'm not a fan of even trying it this way either. The vaccine is pre-exposure protection, people should take it.

Thanks for the info. I pretty much much figured it was something to take after getting Covid. Now i know.

 

[JM Aggie08]

For the longest time I've found value in this thread.

These days it's either knee-jerk reactions, unnecessary arguments, or blatant disregard of facts. It is time to unfollow. Ya'll enjoy lol.