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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Feb 4, 2009
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Natural immunity to covid is powerful. Policymakers seem afraid to say so.

The incorrect hypothesis that natural immunity is unreliable has resulted in the loss of thousands of American lives, avoidable vaccine complications, and damaged the credibility of public health officials. Given the recent mandate announcement by the White House, it would be good for our public health leaders to show humility by acknowledging that the hypothesis they repeatedly trumpeted was not only wrong, but it may be harmful. Let’s all come together around the mounting body of scientific literature and real-world clinical experience that is telling us not to require the full vaccine regimen in people who recovered from covid in the past. Public health officials changing their position on natural immunity, after so much hostility toward the idea, would go a long way in rebuilding the public trust.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/
Problem with this is it has been anecdotal and the big problem is how do you verify someone has recovered from COVID without making it public knowledge that this person tested positive for COVID on X date and tested negative X days/week later.
Many folks will say the recovered from COVID without being tested or diagnosed for COVID.
Otherwise, yes I agree if we could all be completely honest and follow guidelines mandates would not be required.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
19,683
2,984
126
Natural immunity to covid is powerful. Policymakers seem afraid to say so.

The incorrect hypothesis that natural immunity is unreliable has resulted in the loss of thousands of American lives, avoidable vaccine complications, and damaged the credibility of public health officials. Given the recent mandate announcement by the White House, it would be good for our public health leaders to show humility by acknowledging that the hypothesis they repeatedly trumpeted was not only wrong, but it may be harmful. Let’s all come together around the mounting body of scientific literature and real-world clinical experience that is telling us not to require the full vaccine regimen in people who recovered from covid in the past. Public health officials changing their position on natural immunity, after so much hostility toward the idea, would go a long way in rebuilding the public trust.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

I've seen plenty of information related to natural immunity to Covid and considering that developing immunity after contracting an infection is the way our immune-systems function on a basic level, all I can say is "duh".

:rolleyes:

It seems pretty obvious (at least to me) that having had Covid would result in strong immunity by itself and that adding the vaccine would only result in immune-response becoming stronger still.

Not difficult. o_O


But as I've said previously, given how just plain STUPID & GULLIBLE 30-40% of the American population has proven to be over the last 18 months I have very little faith anymore.

Since pretty much EVERYTHING Covid/science related gets twisted by EVIL FOLKS who only care about power into some kind of retarded "political" issue and then misinterpreted by the semi-illiterate masses who vote for them, can you blame current leaders for being a bit gun-shy?

:(
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,219
4,244
136
I'm not inclined to gloat about anti-vaxxers and conspiracy-theorists who die of COVID. I don't know why some some of these stories just make me feel sad - honestly, some of these folk mentioned above (having looked them up) just seem bordering-on mentally unwell, and I can only see them as victims of a screwed-up culture and history.

But with that Bob Enyart guy I'd absolutely make an exception.
I feel sorry for the victims. But the radio hosts and "anti-mask" activists can eat shit. I do feel sorry for their orphaned kids.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
19,683
2,984
126
I feel sorry for the victims. But the radio hosts and "anti-mask" activists can eat shit. I do feel sorry for their orphaned kids.

Same here .... sympathy NOT found. :mad:

Still tragic since most of them didn't have to die although society as a whole is better off.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,219
4,244
136
So this is one of the things I struggle with - this is an actual billboard here in Hartford, right off the highway:

View attachment 50339

If you have a kid & if you care about them, wouldn't you want to take EVERY precaution possible in keeping them safe & healthy, whether or not it's completely proven that masks work 100%? Especially as when it's as easy as simply putting on a mask? As of today, we are at 667,000 deaths in America. Children make up 15.5% of COVID cases, with 5,292,837 cases to date cumulatively. I can't imagine getting so upset about wearing a mask that you'd setup a website & pay thousands of dollars to get the message out there. It just seems so completely illogical!
It's a grift, more than likely.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,451
4,063
126
I've seen plenty of information related to natural immunity to Covid and considering that developing immunity after contracting an infection is the way our immune-systems function on a basic level, all I can say is "duh".

:rolleyes:

It seems pretty obvious (at least to me) that having had Covid would result in strong immunity by itself and that adding the vaccine would only result in immune-response becoming stronger still.

Not difficult. o_O


But as I've said previously, given how just plain STUPID & GULLIBLE 30-40% of the American population has proven to be over the last 18 months I have very little faith anymore.

Since pretty much EVERYTHING Covid/science related gets twisted by EVIL FOLKS who only care about power into some kind of retarded "political" issue and then misinterpreted by the semi-illiterate masses who vote for them, can you blame current leaders for being a bit gun-shy?

:(
This is why I like to hear the "listen to the science" sloganeering. The scientists don't always agree, there's a wide spectrum with offshoots, of course, but the scientists, particularly the astute ones (there ARE charlatans), are by and large going to be an order of magnitude smarter about guiding us through the pandemic than the politicians. The best politicians know who they can trust to serve the public good when all is sorted out (not just aid them in keeping their office), have some kind of internal means of determining that. They are the only ones worthy of your votes.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,024
3,125
126
Shows we have morons here in Connecticut too.

Fortunately the population density is a bit less than national average! :p
There's a billboard on 91 just north of Hartford that is anti-mandatory vaccinations, just drove past it lol. Again, I understand the hesitancy, but man, the people in the healthcare community are working overtime to keep people healthy & living and we've got people out here saying dont' wear masks, don't get vaccinated, etc. The freedom of choice kind of boggles my mind sometimes!
 

gill77

Senior member
Aug 3, 2006
643
182
116
FDA advisory panel rejects widespread Pfizer booster shots

WASHINGTON (AP) — An influential federal advisory panel has soundly rejected a plan to offer Pfizer booster shots against COVID-19 to most Americans.

The vote Friday, 16-2, was a blow to the Biden administration’s effort to shore up people’s protection against the virus amid the highly contagious delta variant.

Over several hours of discussion, members of the Food and Drug Administration panel of outside experts voiced frustration that Pfizer had provided little data on safety of extra doses.

And they complained that data provided by Israeli researchers about their booster campaign might not be suitable for predicting the U.S. experience.

https://apnews.com/article/business-science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-1cd1cf6a5c5c02b63f8a7324807a59f1
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,451
4,063
126
There's a billboard on 91 just north of Hartford that is anti-mandatory vaccinations, just drove past it lol. Again, I understand the hesitancy, but man, the people in the healthcare community are working overtime to keep people healthy & living and we've got people out here saying dont' wear masks, don't get vaccinated, etc. The freedom of choice kind of boggles my mind sometimes!
In some cultures they would be STFU. If they pulled that shit in China I don't think they'd get away with it. Seems to me it's mostly in America you have the freedumb to be a stupid shit-head.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
19,683
2,984
126
Pretty sure my MD will okay a booster for me but IMO I shouldn't need any "approval" to get one if I choose to do so.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
5,028
1,375
136
Pretty sure my MD will okay a booster for me but IMO I shouldn't need any "approval" to get one if I choose to do so.
I would also like the option to get a booster. Especially since very few people are wanting to get their first doses. I doubt I qualify though since I'm 50 and not immunocompromised.

Moderna's vaccine is the most effective, but Pfizer and J&J also protect well, CDC-led study says

"Among U.S. adults without immunocompromising conditions, vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 hospitalization during March 11- August 15, 2021, was higher for the Moderna vaccine (93%) than the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine (88%) and the Janssen vaccine (71%)," the team wrote in the CDC's weekly report on death and disease, the MMWR."

"Vaccine effectiveness for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 91% at 14 -120 days after receipt of the second vaccine dose but declined significantly to 77% at more than 120 days," the team wrote."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/health/moderna-vaccine-most-effective-cdc-study/index.html
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
19,683
2,984
126
I would also like the option to get a booster. Especially since very few people are wanting to get their first doses. I doubt I qualify though since I'm 50 and not immunocompromised.

Moderna's vaccine is the most effective, but Pfizer and J&J also protect well, CDC-led study says

"Among U.S. adults without immunocompromising conditions, vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 hospitalization during March 11- August 15, 2021, was higher for the Moderna vaccine (93%) than the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine (88%) and the Janssen vaccine (71%)," the team wrote in the CDC's weekly report on death and disease, the MMWR."

"Vaccine effectiveness for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 91% at 14 -120 days after receipt of the second vaccine dose but declined significantly to 77% at more than 120 days," the team wrote."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/health/moderna-vaccine-most-effective-cdc-study/index.html

I have a couple issues that qualify me not as immuno-compromised but definitely at higher risk of complications.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,859
9,064
126
www.uovalor.com
Yeah I can't see why they should deny it if people want it. I imagine they're at a point where they have more extra doses now. I personally don't see a need for one for myself, but for people that are more at risk either due to their job or health could definitely benefit from one.

Hopefully there is more concrete data for how long the vaccine lasts too, since if it really starts to drop in effectiveness after say 6 months, then I would not be against getting another shot at that point.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
19,683
2,984
126
Looks like the FDA wants more proof that myocartis isn't going to be a problem if people keep getting shots.

I was diagnosed with an arrhythmia shortly after getting my first shot but it was completely unrelated except in timing... symptoms came on a week PRIOR to getting vaccinated. (diagnosed sleep-apnea related and then aggravated by a new heartburn med)

Note that my cardiologist did have me do a heart-ultrasound and a stress-test both of which I passed. (no myocarditis or clots/blockages)

Anti-vaxxor's would jump on this in a heartbeat lol! :p
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,111
2,367
136
Yeah I can't see why they should deny it if people want it. I imagine they're at a point where they have more extra doses now. I personally don't see a need for one for myself, but for people that are more at risk either due to their job or health could definitely benefit from one.
If the booster gets approved, it's entirely possible that companies that mandate the vaccine will mandate the booster too.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,859
9,064
126
www.uovalor.com
If the booster gets approved, it's entirely possible that companies that mandate the vaccine will mandate the booster too.
Yeah true this could be a slippery slope. Maybe it's best that if they do approve it they make it so it's more a special case deal and has to be at your doctor's request. Those who really feel they want it could still go see their doctor, but by making it non mainstream hopefully work places and government are not going to force everyone to get it.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,451
4,063
126
Yeah I can't see why they should deny it if people want it. I imagine they're at a point where they have more extra doses now. I personally don't see a need for one for myself, but for people that are more at risk either due to their job or health could definitely benefit from one.

Hopefully there is more concrete data for how long the vaccine lasts too, since if it really starts to drop in effectiveness after say 6 months, then I would not be against getting another shot at that point.
Here's what I make out from what I have heard FWIW:

If you've had 2 mRNA shots and it's been 8 months (probably 6 months too), your antibody levels might be reduced by 8 fold or so (ballpark figure, I'm sure). Your T-Cells will still know how to produce antibodies but they aren't as responsive to infection as your actual antibodies are, which flow through your capillaries/veins. The T-Cells, IIRC, are not in your blood but in your bone marrow.

So, say you get exposed to Delta, you're fully vaccinated but it's been over 6 months since your 2nd shot and you haven't had a booster. That exposure is likely initially in your nasal membranes. They will fight the virus but seeing as your antibodies are depleted after 6-8 months they won't be super good at suppressing the virus and in short order it will replicate and slough off and you will be apt to infect others. IOW, people who don't have boosters after 6-8 months from the last shot are apt to further the pandemic's spread (symptomatic or not) more than people who have gotten boosters. Of course, if you have gotten a booster you will do a better job of fighting off symptomatic infection, significant illness and the off chance that you will need hospitalization or worse. However, without that booster, if you aren't immunocompromised or particularly elderly (over 65) you are still quite unlikely to need hospitalization or worse.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
21,293
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An interesting tidbit from the NYTimes scroll for Covid updates on the FDA discussion yesterday about boosters:

Israel and the United States define severe illness differently.

In Israel, anyone with an accelerated respiratory rate and an oxygen level of below 94 percent is severely ill. By contrast, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention considers people who are sick enough to be hospitalized as having severe disease, Dr. Sara Oliver, a C.D.C. scientist, said at the advisory committee meeting.
Just another reason why real-world data can be very difficult to parse, and why it is extremely important to look at the country of origin and how key terms are defined.
 
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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
10,111
2,367
136
Hmm.. if you show up at a hospital with covid symptoms they probably will admit you. Even if you end up getting discharged in a few hours.
 

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