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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,442
4,057
126
Interesting post from a few minutes ago, as a comment to an article in today's New York Times on the viability of the virus on various surfaces and infectiousness as aerosol or fomite:

A. T.
Scarborough-on-Hudson, N.Y.12m ago

Infective Viral Load is the amount of virus that can cause infection with a moderate to high degree of probability. Below that threshold, viral loads in the environment are so low that the controlled incidence of new infections ensures an epidemic is ending. That is a different question than the danger to each individual, which may be reduced, but is not eliminated in the presence of only small viral loads of aerosol and fomite virus. As long as any virus is present, there some minimal risk of mortality because a single virus entering an ACE II receptor can eventually kill a person, even if that is unlikely. Risk is only reduced therefore, not eliminated, with reduced exposure to fomite and aerosol viral load. Absolute safety would require, e.g., a 2-3 week quarantine during the incubation period for any person exposed to persons shedding the virus or other vectors that include both shopping and social distancing. The reader should be told not “what is safe,” but what is “kinda safe,” and let them assess their appropriate degree of worry, concern, risk-taking and prophylactic safety measures accordingly.

 
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brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
21,714
3,363
126
There issue may be how one defines 'a free society'. A lot of work was put into equating 'leave everything to the market' with 'freedom'.
that is true.

maybe something will be done with medical supplies similar to the way farming was changed in FDR's new deal - subsidization to keep farms profitable and local.

this is the type of socialism that even most conservatives seem to condone, because it keeps food production local.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,509
12,041
136
Reportedly the next congressional bill will include $25B for a federal testing program due to bipartisan congressional demand. Better way late than never I guess.
 

brianmanahan

Lifer
Sep 2, 2006
21,714
3,363
126
Well, this is pretty damn bleak, whatever one's politics...

i expect it to be like an illness from the olden days - it's bad, a bunch of people die, and we don't have the capacity to do anything about, so we'll eventually just have to live with the risk

i was just looking up family history via archived newspapers yesterday. i learned i had a great-great-great-great-great uncle who died from diphtheria at 19. he had graduated and was about to go to college, got sick, and a couple days later, he was dead. i'm probably the only person to read about him or remember him in over 100 years. for some reason he wasn't buried in any local graveyards, so had never known about him until seeing that random rural new york paper. RIP uncle amos.

they didn't discover the vaccine for diphtheria until about 75 years after he died.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,013
3,122
126
So many companies going bankrupt or are on the verge of bankruptcy:




 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,836
9,061
126
www.uovalor.com
The fact that you can catch it more than once might make a vaccine harder too. Arn't vaccines basically tricking your body into thinking you have it so it builds the antibodies, or is it more complex than that?
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,509
12,041
136
The fact that you can catch it more than once might make a vaccine harder too. Arn't vaccines basically tricking your body into thinking you have it so it builds the antibodies, or is it more complex than that?
There will be a question of how long the protection from a vaccine will last. Boosters might be needed but we are a long way out from worrying about that.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,013
3,122
126
i expect it to be like an illness from the olden days - it's bad, a bunch of people die, and we don't have the capacity to do anything about, so we'll eventually just have to live with the risk

i was just looking up family history via archived newspapers yesterday. i learned i had a great-great-great-great-great uncle who died from diphtheria at 19. he had graduated and was about to go to college, got sick, and a couple days later, he was dead. i'm probably the only person to read about him or remember him in over 100 years. for some reason he wasn't buried in any local graveyards, so had never known about him until seeing that random rural new york paper. RIP uncle amos.

they didn't discover the vaccine for diphtheria until about 75 years after he died.
Dang, what a way to go :(

The crazy thing is how many things that rarely exist in our country anymore, but are killers in other countries. For example, another d-word, diarrhea, kills over 2 million people worldwide every year. Statistics-wise, that's over 2,000 children a day. On top of other diseases, war, famine, etc.

For me, it's really highlighted that social distancing is a privilege, especially the "stay at home part". So many people can't do that & are just stuck. I feel bad for the Amazon workers...from the news articles, at least, it sounds like Amazon has been doing a crap job at protecting their workers. Whereas Bezos just hit $143 billion of personal net worth. For some perspective, that's enough for a quarter-million dollar payout for each of Amazon's 600k workers.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,190
852
126
There must be a dozen different organizations working on vaccines right now. Odds are that at least one of them will be somewhat effective.
This new "RNA vaccine" is the one I'm most excited for:
FWIW, disease enhancement is a thing even naturally. I wish they would've mentioned this in the video so people don't see it as a vaccine thing. One example I've heard was with the 1918 "Spanish" Flu. They say the reason the 1918 flu was particularly lethal for young men (average age was 28) is because they were exposed at birth to a similar endemic flu around 30 years earlier.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
21,288
2,880
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The fact that you can catch it more than once might make a vaccine harder too. Arn't vaccines basically tricking your body into thinking you have it so it builds the antibodies, or is it more complex than that?
They aren't "tricking" your body. They're actually exposing your body to the same antigens that a virus or bacteria might have, so your body triggers an immune response that leads to the development of antibodies and an antibody memory before it gets exposed to the actual pathogen. The problem lies in how strong the response is. Some antibody memory fades with time, hence the need for boosters with some vaccines; but with some illnesses, it's been found that that memory can fade quite rapidly - sometimes on the order of months.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
26,845
658
126
So many companies going bankrupt or are on the verge of bankruptcy:


FROM FASHION FIXTURE TO BRINK OF BANKRUPTCY

The first Neiman Marcus store opened in Dallas, Texas, in 1907. It was opened by the Marcus and Neiman families, which decided to pursue the retail venture after considering and rejecting an investment in a little-known soft drink at the time called Coca-Cola, according to Neiman Marcus’ website.


---------

They were probably sitting around drinking whiskey at a conference table in 1907, wondering to invest in Coca-Cola or do something else:

One guy: "Who the heck is going to buy sugary carbonated water made with coca leaf? Lets open up high end retail shops!"


Another guy: "Agreed. We will sell stuff to rich people at a big markup. Lets call the shop Neiman-Marcus!"

Some lady in the back of the room: "I bought some Coca-Cola for this meeting. This stuff mixes well with whiskey. Are you sure we shouldn't invest in this?"

Everyone in the room: " ha ha ha "
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,509
12,041
136
In the vaccine race there is a non-trivial chance that somebody is going to take a major shortcut and do vaccine challenges. I could certainly see the Chinese doing it given their government's wanton disregard for human life.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
18,429
2,264
126
Supposedly people that run through Turbo Tax / HR Block / etc... when it runs through Turbo Tax system they actually send it to another account (associated with Turbo Tax, etc.) that then forwards it on to yours. I have no idea of how this works exactly, just something I've heard.
Nope... Been using Turbotax for >20 years. Direct Deposit Refund goes into account from IRS and not a secondary account. The Bank Routing and account information is sent on your tax forms.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,751
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i am confident that in a free society people will buy more expensive locally-produced goods instead of less expensive globally-produced goods

The only arguement anyone needs for that is simply "Go into any Walmart"... as you notice everyone buying the cheapest shit. Regardless of quality, durability, or overall lifetime costs - they would rather buy a shit product then a quality one to save $5 now instead of saving $50 over 10 years.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,751
136
Nope... Been using Turbotax for >20 years. Direct Deposit Refund goes into account from IRS and not a secondary account. The Bank Routing and account information is sent on your tax forms.
It's not as simple as that - and I myself don't fully understand it - but see this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/16/coronavirus-cares-stimulus-check/

Customers who use tax preparation services such as H&R Block, TurboTax and Jackson Hewitt complained on Twitter and to The Post that they didn’t get their stimulus payments Wednesday.

Up to 21 million tax filers could be affected, said consumer law expert Vijay Raghavan, because the IRS does not have these people’s direct deposit information on file if they received an advance on their tax refund from these companies or had the fee for tax preparation taken out of their tax refund.
The reason is that tax preparation companies received these people’s tax refunds first, deducted their fees and then distributed the remaining refunds to the customers. Because of that, the IRS had a “temporary bank account” on file that the tax preparer created for the 2019 tax season, Raghavan said.
Which is pretty wide open - a lot of people take their payment in the form of gift cards - or they have to pay fees (such as state tax return fees) and they opt to take it out of their total refund to pay the fees from the sounds of it?

Regardless, the above quote is what I'm referring to.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,751
136
FROM FASHION FIXTURE TO BRINK OF BANKRUPTCY

The first Neiman Marcus store opened in Dallas, Texas, in 1907. It was opened by the Marcus and Neiman families, which decided to pursue the retail venture after considering and rejecting an investment in a little-known soft drink at the time called Coca-Cola, according to Neiman Marcus’ website.


---------

They were probably sitting around drinking whiskey at a conference table in 1907, wondering to invest in Coca-Cola or do something else:

One guy: "Who the heck is going to buy sugary carbonated water made with coca leaf? Lets open up high end retail shops!"


Another guy: "Agreed. We will sell stuff to rich people at a big markup. Lets call the shop Neiman-Marcus!"

Some lady in the back of the room: "I bought some Coca-Cola for this meeting. This stuff mixes well with whiskey. Are you sure we shouldn't invest in this?"

Everyone in the room: " ha ha ha "
Totally not surprised. I mean, who do you think shops at places like Neiman Marcus and Saks 5th Avenue and such?

While they might get SOME rich people in their doors, the majority are just middle and upper-middle class people that can't actually afford the shit - they are just dumb folks playing the "Keeping up with the Jones" game to make sure they dress like they have a million bucks when they are really in huge credit card debt.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
18,429
2,264
126
They say the reason the 1918 flu was particularly lethal for young men (average age was 28) is because they were exposed at birth to a similar endemic flu around 30 years earlier.
How could a 28 year old be exposed 30 years earlier? o_O
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
18,429
2,264
126
It's not as simple as that - and I myself don't fully understand it - but see this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/16/coronavirus-cares-stimulus-check/



Which is pretty wide open - a lot of people take their payment in the form of gift cards - or they have to pay fees (such as state tax return fees) and they opt to take it out of their total refund to pay the fees from the sounds of it?

Regardless, the above quote is what I'm referring to.
Well it does make sense if they give you a refund advance, debit card or authorize them to deduct the filing fees from your refund. Both of which are not real intelligent...

But if you don't take an advance or deduct the fees from your refund it comes directly from the government.
 

linkgoron

Platinum Member
Mar 9, 2005
2,039
449
136
One example I've heard was with the 1918 "Spanish" Flu. They say the reason the 1918 flu was particularly lethal for young men (average age was 28) is because they were exposed at birth to a similar endemic flu around 30 years earlier.
I've heard that the reason that the Spanish Flu was so deadly was that it caused the immune system to overload, and as young people's immune systems are stronger, it killed them.

According to Wikipedia: "Modern analysis has shown the virus to be particularly deadly because it triggers a cytokine storm (overreaction of the body's immune system), which ravages the stronger immune system of young adults. [...] The strong immune reactions of young adults were postulated to have ravaged the body, whereas the weaker immune reactions of children and middle-aged adults resulted in fewer deaths among those groups"
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,190
852
126
How could a 28 year old be exposed 30 years earlier? o_O
Isn't it obvious? I said "around" 30 years earlier because it wasn't here and gone immediately. It was a range of years.

The virus from around 30 years earlier became endemic and was still spreading around a couple years later. Children may even get exposed when their immune system is still developing before they are even born.

Also, 28 was the average age. Some were older, some were younger.

...and how is 28 years not "around" 30 years? It is. If I described a 28 year old I didn't know as "around 30 years old" I would obviously be close enough to be correctly describing the person.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,013
3,122
126
The fact that you can catch it more than once might make a vaccine harder too. Arn't vaccines basically tricking your body into thinking you have it so it builds the antibodies, or is it more complex than that?
They haven't confirmed that yet. Right now they're thinking there's a dormancy period, similar to HIV:


It sounds like we should be doing fecal matter testing instead, as it appears to stick in your gut longer & not get detected by nasal & throat swabs:

Because the virus seems to linger longer in the intestines, testing fecal matter gives doctors a better idea if the virus has officially been cleared from people’s bodies.

Until we start doing that here, we won’t be able to tell the difference between reinfection, resurgence, or possibly reactivation of SARS-CoV-2,” Neuman said.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,333
791
126
So many companies going bankrupt or are on the verge of bankruptcy:




Brick and Morter retail has been teetering on the edge of survival for years. This will probably be what shoves 50-75% of brick and mortar retail off the cliff.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
18,429
2,264
126
Isn't it obvious? I said "around" 30 years earlier because it wasn't here and gone immediately. It was a range of years.

The virus from around 30 years earlier became endemic and was still spreading around a couple years later. Children may even get exposed when their immune system is still developing before they are even born.

Also, 28 was the average age. Some were older, some were younger.

And how is 28 years not "around" 30 years? It is. If I described a 28 year old as "around 30 years old" I would not be incorrect.

It just appeared strange the way you worded the statement.
 
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