"No we can't" - Hillary 2016

[theeedude]

I am against the negative aspects of Obamacare, which are many. It's a net positive bill, but not by a huge margin.

universal healthcare or bust

How is Bernie going to pass it? He will have with extremely high probability, courtesy of the Gerrymander, a Republican House. Do you think GOP will "repeal and replace" Obamacare with Medicare for all, because Bernie Sanders wants to?
I am trying to figure out if you are a smart Republican or a stupid Democrat...

 

[nickqt]

Everyone talks about the success of obamacare, but not the cost. Millions of people now have insurance! Great, except...

The burden of the cost to get people like you on insurance comes from the pocket of the poor young lower and middle class Americans. These people were forced to buy private health insurance to subsidize the cost. These people, who basically don't even need the insurance outside of catastrophic emergencies, are a large majority of those 'millions of successes' that got health insurance!

What's more the insurance most people have is still worthless, outside of catastrophes, because the deductibles are too high. They still can't afford to go to the doctor!

The fact is that the only people that benefited from this were people like yourself, and everyone else has to pay for it, while getting nothing in return. How is that fair? I am sure you like it, but we needed single payer, and we could have gotten it if Obama wasn't a corrupt piece of shit.

Obamacare is shit! It's an expansion of insurance profits, more than healthcare. Expanded medicare is the only true coverage increase that was meaningful, and states could opt out of that!

And yet there is someone who bought insurance, found out they had a life-threatening condition that would have killed them without insurance, and will survive.

Obamacare is shit, indeed. Sure is better than nothing.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

How is Bernie going to pass it? He will have with extremely high probability, courtesy of the Gerrymander, a Republican House. Do you think GOP will "repeal and replace" Obamacare with Medicare for all, because Bernie Sanders wants to?
I am trying to figure out if you are a smart Republican or a stupid Democrat...

Here is a question, what did Obama get for taking out the public option? Correct answer, Nothing! He took his biggest bargaining chip, and threw it away.....!!!!?????

You think that makes sense? If so, I have some prime beach front property in Iowa you should buy.

And yet there is someone who bought insurance, found out they had a life-threatening condition that would have killed them without insurance, and will survive.

Obamacare is shit, indeed. Sure is better than nothing.

This is what I am talking about. You talk about the lottery winner, and ignore the millions of losers. That's great for the one hypothetical guy, but what about everyone else?

If Obamacare didn't tax poor people for the sake of corporate profit, then I would be singing about how great it was too.

 

[theeedude]

Here is a question, what did Obama get for taking out the public option? Correct answer, Nothing! He took his biggest bargaining chip, and threw it away.....!!!!?????

You really should inform yourself. Joe Lieberman, whose wife was on insurance company payroll, said he would vote No on the whole bill if public option stayed in. He was the 60th vote that was needed to pass the bill. It was either no public option or no bill at all.
Now it's your turn to answer how Bernie will pass Medicare for all with a Republican House.

 

[feralkid]

I am against the negative aspects of Obamacare, which are many. It's a net positive bill, but not by a huge margin.

universal healthcare or bust

Here is a question, what did Obama get for taking out the public option? Correct answer, Nothing! He took his biggest bargaining chip, and threw it away.....!!!!?????

Your ignorance is matched only by your astounding arrogance.

 

[Sonikku]

You really should inform yourself. Joe Lieberman, whose wife was on insurance company payroll, said he would vote No on the whole bill if public option stayed in. He was the 60th vote that was needed to pass the bill. It was either no public option or no bill at all.
Now it's your turn to answer how Bernie will pass Medicare for all with a Republican House.

This is why I tell people to calm down when they start freaking out about "OMG Bernie would herald the end of Capitalism!". A liberal president wouldn't be able to shift America to full blown socialism. With a crazed GoP that can't even work with itself, it would be all a liberal president could do to drag American closer to the middle. Much less the left.

Why people want to start the compromise right off the bat with a conservative lite like Hillary, I have no idea.

 

[Brainonska511]

This is why I tell people to calm down when they start freaking out about "OMG Bernie would herald the end of Capitalism!". A liberal president wouldn't be able to shift America to full blown socialism. With a crazed GoP that can't even work with itself, it would be all a liberal president could do to drag American closer to the middle. Much less the left.

Why people want to start the compromise right off the bat with a conservative lite like Hillary, I have no idea.

I think Sanders supporters are overestimating the liberalness of most Democrats in the country. I'd rather the Democrats avoid nominating the next McGovern and actually win the presidency, especially with supreme court nominees to likely come in the next term.

And as far as legislation to pass, you need someone that knows what is possible and where to burn political capital.

 

[fskimospy]

This is why I tell people to calm down when they start freaking out about "OMG Bernie would herald the end of Capitalism!". A liberal president wouldn't be able to shift America to full blown socialism. With a crazed GoP that can't even work with itself, it would be all a liberal president could do to drag American closer to the middle. Much less the left.

Why people want to start the compromise right off the bat with a conservative lite like Hillary, I have no idea.

The answer is pretty simple. Despite what you might hear, Hillary and Bernie are not actually that far apart ideologically. The problem is that the risk from this election is highly asymmetric because the Republicans almost certainly control the House after the 2016 election and will potentially still control the Senate.

With an aligned Congress a Republican president would have an opportunity to enact a vast amount of extremely conservative legislation. From a liberal standpoint, that's really bad. No matter if Clinton or Sanders win however, they will face a hostile Congress that will prevent much substantive legislation from being passed. It won't matter if it's very liberal legislation or center-left legislation.

Because the upside isn't much different regardless of whether Sanders or Clinton wins (gridlock) but the downside is really bad if they lose, picking a more centrist candidate is the most logical choice. Sanders would be the most liberal major party candidate since McGovern at least, and ideologically extreme candidates are generally less likely to win, all else being equal.

Since winning matters more than any particular policy, that's why you go with Clinton.

 

[feralkid]

nm.

 

[theeedude]

This is why I tell people to calm down when they start freaking out about "OMG Bernie would herald the end of Capitalism!". A liberal president wouldn't be able to shift America to full blown socialism. With a crazed GoP that can't even work with itself, it would be all a liberal president could do to drag American closer to the middle. Much less the left.

Why people want to start the compromise right off the bat with a conservative lite like Hillary, I have no idea.

So Hillary is right that Medicare for all can't pass, and Sanders is selling a pipe dream.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is why I tell people to calm down when they start freaking out about "OMG Bernie would herald the end of Capitalism!". A liberal president wouldn't be able to shift America to full blown socialism. With a crazed GoP that can't even work with itself, it would be all a liberal president could do to drag American closer to the middle. Much less the left.

Why people want to start the compromise right off the bat with a conservative lite like Hillary, I have no idea.

Yeh, the reason righties hate Hillary desperately is because she's really a conservative, but only in your dreams.

Saying Hillary isn't Liberal is like saying house cats aren't felines-

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Funny how it looks when you get through the hype & the bullshit & look at, you know, honest issues.

 

[sm625]

If her slogan really was "No We Can't" millions of dumbed down idiots would still vote for her.

 

[Jhhnn]

The answer is pretty simple. Despite what you might hear, Hillary and Bernie are not actually that far apart ideologically. The problem is that the risk from this election is highly asymmetric because the Republicans almost certainly control the House after the 2016 election and will potentially still control the Senate.

With an aligned Congress a Republican president would have an opportunity to enact a vast amount of extremely conservative legislation. From a liberal standpoint, that's really bad. No matter if Clinton or Sanders win however, they will face a hostile Congress that will prevent much substantive legislation from being passed. It won't matter if it's very liberal legislation or center-left legislation.

Because the upside isn't much different regardless of whether Sanders or Clinton wins (gridlock) but the downside is really bad if they lose, picking a more centrist candidate is the most logical choice. Sanders would be the most liberal major party candidate since McGovern at least, and ideologically extreme candidates are generally less likely to win, all else being equal.

Since winning matters more than any particular policy, that's why you go with Clinton.

Repubs can only win by campaigning to the middle. Bernie gives it away.

 

[Bowfinger]

If her slogan really was "No We Can't" millions of dumbed down idiots would still vote for her.

It seems to work for the GOP. "No We Can't" is a key plank in their platform, and they get tens of millions of dumbed-down idiots.

 

[werepossum]

It seems to work for the GOP. "No We Can't" is a key plank in their platform, and they get tens of millions of dumbed-down idiots.

lol As opposed to the Democrat Party's ranks of highly intelligent voters who cannot provide themselves with health care, housing, education, day care . . . Even procuring identification is beyond the Democrat voter's abilities. And at least in Florida, not even Democrats can design a ballot that Democrat voters can understand.

Yeah, you guys are mo debinitely the party of smart.

 

[Bowfinger]

lol As opposed to the Democrat Party's ranks of highly intelligent voters who cannot provide themselves with health care, housing, education, day care . . . Even procuring identification is beyond the Democrat voter's abilities. And at least in Florida, not even Democrats can design a ballot that Democrat voters can understand.

Yeah, you guys are mo debinitely the party of smart.

I'm not a Democrat, and I'm not claiming Democrats are the party of smart. I was simply countering Sm625's dumb dig. Try to keep up.

 

[werepossum]

I'm not a Democrat, and I'm not claiming Democrats are the party of smart. I was simply countering Sm625's dumb dig. Try to keep up.

lol Of course you're not a Democrat.

 

[Bowfinger]

lol Of course you're not a Democrat.

I'm not. My wife and sons caucused last night. I did not because I'm registered independent, and plan to stay that way. It's true I rarely vote for Republicans these days, but that's because the GOP has become such an extremist malignancy. I used to vote for Reps about as much as Dems, and still vote for third-party candidates regularly.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

How is Bernie going to pass it? He will have with extremely high probability, courtesy of the Gerrymander, a Republican House. Do you think GOP will "repeal and replace" Obamacare with Medicare for all, because Bernie Sanders wants to?
I am trying to figure out if you are a smart Republican or a stupid Democrat...

How is Hillary going to pass it? She has less of a chance than Bernie to amend Obamacare!

 

[mysticjbyrd]

If her slogan really was "No We Can't" millions of dumbed down idiots would still vote for her.

She basically did, they just can't read between the lines.

They aren't dumbed down, they are just dumb. This is why we desperately need to end these old religious morons to die off, and teach philosophy in High School. Most people in the US have no critical thinking skills!

 

[michal1980]

Clinton Flip Flops on Health Care.

So less then a month after saying you cant get universal care, she is now for it?

http://www.scoopnest.com/user/BuzzFeedNews/694377625284792321

Just another example that the Clintons will lie about everything.

 

[nickqt]

lol As opposed to the Democrat Party's ranks of highly intelligent voters who cannot provide themselves with health care, housing, education, day care . . . Even procuring identification is beyond the Democrat voter's abilities. And at least in Florida, not even Democrats can design a ballot that Democrat voters can understand.

Yeah, you guys are mo debinitely the party of smart.

No Democratic party voter in the history of the world has ever had a job or made money or started a business or not hated America with the fury of 10,000,000 Hitlers to the Stalininth power!

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Clinton Flip Flops on Health Care.

So less then a month after saying you cant get universal care, she is now for it?

http://www.scoopnest.com/user/BuzzFeedNews/694377625284792321

Just another example that the Clintons will lie about everything.

WOW what a joke! I guess the polls showed they didn't like her recant....

 

[shady28]

You really should inform yourself. Joe Lieberman, whose wife was on insurance company payroll, said he would vote No on the whole bill if public option stayed in. He was the 60th vote that was needed to pass the bill. It was either no public option or no bill at all.
Now it's your turn to answer how Bernie will pass Medicare for all with a Republican House.

Same way Obama gets shit passed.

Refuse to sign the budget until what you want is in it, while simultaneously blaming the GOP for giving you a budget that is "poisoned" and you "can't" sign.

This is Obama's real legacy.

 

[Jhhnn]

Clinton Flip Flops on Health Care.

So less then a month after saying you cant get universal care, she is now for it?

http://www.scoopnest.com/user/BuzzFeedNews/694377625284792321

Just another example that the Clintons will lie about everything.

Have you considered the fact that universal healthcare doesn't necessarily mean single payer?

We'd almost have universal coverage if conservative justices hadn't legislated from the bench to let states deny medicaid coverage.