"No we can't" - Hillary 2016

[fskimospy]

Is that all you've got?

How can any sane person think that this horrible person should be president?

When all you provide is a complaint about who she gets campaign contributions from and then start calling her a 'scum sucking bitch' you're just emotionally ranting about someone you dislike for apparently no reason. You're the blind ideologue you're complaining about.

 

[Meghan54]

Obama care is garbage. Most people I know who are on it have absolutely shit coverage with very high deductibles, only because they were forced to buy it. Those who can't afford to pay for it and have it, also have shit coverage. How about we make this country great and prosperous again, where employers can hire people who want to work full time and can once again provide medical coverage? How about we start to empower people again to accomplish great things and stop enabling them to be so dependent on the government? We are raising a society of lazy, entitled, spoiled brats. We are not doing people any favors by enabling them to stay down in the mud. We are creating a society of slaves to poverty and government dependence. Don't deny it, it's a fact.

Gee, I for one am grateful that I am afforded the opportunity to purchase shit health insurance, since we purchased it from the ACA exchange. I wish we didn't have to; we're 60+ but still too young for Medicare.

(Why we're having to use the ACA exchange is pretty much our own fault for trying to do the "right thing" and end up in a situation much like MongGrel's.)


The plan, the second cheapest in the exchange for Georgia, was a Blue Cross/Blue Shield plan, a 75/25 plan, which could be considered a crap plan when contrasting it with the last 80/20 plan we carried from work back in 2011.

The plan includes the typical stuff like $10 co-pay for MD office visits, $30 co-pay for specialist MD visits, $10 prescription co-pay, etc.

Deductibles are $250/$500 for individual/family. Out of pocket maximum is $600/$1200 individual/family.

Not the greatest but better than pure dung. And a very wide variety of MD's and hospitals local to us (really, everyone) take this crap insurance, which works well for us.

We don't hate the ins.



(As for doing the "right thing".....in Aug. 2011, we dumped our life in GA and moved to Cape Cod to care for my father-in-law after he suffered a massive heart attack. His wife had passed ~6 mos. before that and he was deathly afraid of going into a nursing home if/when he recovered & rehab'd.

We moved in with him and basically provided home care for him for the next 2 1/2 years until he ultimately passed from kidney failure. Then, when we returned to SC/GA, we found the job market was anything but open for 60 year olds trying to get back into our "old" type/level of job. So, we both work part time in menial jobs, no benefits, living on savings.)

 

[Exophase]

Sanders is pretty much guarantee a Republican president. Which means no Medicare for all and Republican justices on SCOTUS to shoot down any future health care reform plans.

It seems like when Sanders comes up with Hillary supporters here they say that he's a fine candidate and they'd be happy if he were elected, but since he's not viable they're supporting Hillary.

It's still looking like Trump is going to take the election, so we're talking about a big contingent of people who support Hillary but would pick Trump over Sanders. Who is this group of people and what motivates this? And what about the people who say the opposite, that they support Bernie but would vote for Trump if Hillary won? I can find some of them online but I'm having a hard time finding the other group. Granted, that's the internet, and that has a giant demographic filter on it pretty much everywhere you see people actually talk about things.

eskimospy and I have been arguing in the other thread about how much being a woman helps Hillary vs hurting her. If there's a contingent where I'd expect it to hurt her more I would place that on the Republican side. Especially the religious right that upholds the parts of the Bible that say women should be subservient to men. The type of person who would not want to see a woman pastor their church, let alone run the country.

But maybe there are even Republican women would vote for a Democrat to see a woman elected in their lifetime. I'm skeptical seeing as how the big women's issues Hillary pushes for aren't very popular even among Republican women, but who knows.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Gee, I for one am grateful that I am afforded the opportunity to purchase shit health insurance, since we purchased it from the ACA exchange. I wish we didn't have to; we're 60+ but still too young for Medicare.

(Why we're having to use the ACA exchange is pretty much our own fault for trying to do the "right thing" and end up in a situation much like MongGrel's.)


The plan, the second cheapest in the exchange for Georgia, was a Blue Cross/Blue Shield plan, a 75/25 plan, which could be considered a crap plan when contrasting it with the last 80/20 plan we carried from work back in 2011.

The plan includes the typical stuff like $10 co-pay for MD office visits, $30 co-pay for specialist MD visits, $10 prescription co-pay, etc.

Deductibles are $250/$500 for individual/family. Out of pocket maximum is $600/$1200 individual/family.

Not the greatest but better than pure dung. And a very wide variety of MD's and hospitals local to us (really, everyone) take this crap insurance, which works well for us.

We don't hate the ins.



(As for doing the "right thing".....in Aug. 2011, we dumped our life in GA and moved to Cape Cod to care for my father-in-law after he suffered a massive heart attack. His wife had passed ~6 mos. before that and he was deathly afraid of going into a nursing home if/when he recovered & rehab'd.

We moved in with him and basically provided home care for him for the next 2 1/2 years until he ultimately passed from kidney failure. Then, when we returned to SC/GA, we found the job market was anything but open for 60 year olds trying to get back into our "old" type/level of job. So, we both work part time in menial jobs, no benefits, living on savings.)

Everyone talks about the success of obamacare, but not the cost. Millions of people now have insurance! Great, except...

The burden of the cost to get people like you on insurance comes from the pocket of the poor young lower and middle class Americans. These people were forced to buy private health insurance to subsidize the cost. These people, who basically don't even need the insurance outside of catastrophic emergencies, are a large majority of those 'millions of successes' that got health insurance!

What's more the insurance most people have is still worthless, outside of catastrophes, because the deductibles are too high. They still can't afford to go to the doctor!

The fact is that the only people that benefited from this were people like yourself, and everyone else has to pay for it, while getting nothing in return. How is that fair? I am sure you like it, but we needed single payer, and we could have gotten it if Obama wasn't a corrupt piece of shit.

Obamacare is shit! It's an expansion of insurance profits, more than healthcare. Expanded medicare is the only true coverage increase that was meaningful, and states could opt out of that!

 

[theeedude]

Everyone talks about the success of obamacare, but not the cost. Millions of people now have insurance! Great, except...

The burden of the cost to get people like you on insurance comes from the pocket of the poor young lower and middle class Americans. These people were forced to buy private health insurance to subsidize the cost. These people, who basically don't even need the insurance outside of catastrophic emergencies, are a large majority of those 'millions of successes' that got health insurance!

What's more the insurance most people have is still worthless, outside of catastrophes, because the deductibles are too high. They still can't afford to go to the doctor!

The fact is that the only people that benefited from this were people like yourself, and everyone else has to pay for it, while getting nothing in return. How is that fair? I am sure you like it, but we needed single payer, and we could have gotten it if Obama wasn't a corrupt piece of shit.

Obamacare is shit! It's an expansion of insurance profits, more than healthcare. Expanded medicare is the only true coverage increase that was meaningful, and states could opt out of that!

You sound like a Republican.

 

[theeedude]

It seems like when Sanders comes up with Hillary supporters here they say that he's a fine candidate and they'd be happy if he were elected, but since he's not viable they're supporting Hillary.

I like Bernie. If I was a genie and you asked me which politician I want to appoint president and give a magic wand to, I would pick him over Hillary.
But we don't live in magic world. Bernie will never get elected, and even if he did, he wouldn't get any of what he campaigned on passed. The country is just nor ready for it, yet. The only way Bernie could get universal single payer health care in the US is to start a war with Canada and then immediately surrender.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

You sound like a Republican.

Republican isn't a slur that magically dismisses ones argument.

I am independent.

 

[Bowfinger]

[ ... ] The only way Bernie could get universal single payer health care in the US is to start a war with Canada and then immediately surrender.

Hey! That sounds like a plan.

🙂

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I like Bernie. If I was a genie and you asked me which politician I want to appoint president and give a magic wand to, I would pick him over Hillary.
But we don't live in magic world. Bernie will never get elected, and even if he did, he wouldn't get any of what he campaigned on passed. The country is just nor ready for it, yet. The only way Bernie could get universal single payer health care in the US is to start a war with Canada and then immediately surrender.

You have not made one logical argument as to why Hillary is more electable, or why she can get more done!

 

[Exophase]

I like Bernie. If I was a genie and you asked me which politician I want to appoint president and give a magic wand to, I would pick him over Hillary.
But we don't live in magic world. Bernie will never get elected, and even if he did, he wouldn't get any of what he campaigned on passed. The country is just nor ready for it, yet. The only way Bernie could get universal single payer health care in the US is to start a war with Canada and then immediately surrender.

I favor Bernie but I see where people are coming from with their criticism of his health plan and I agree it's going to be a really hard sell to get any of it through the door at all vs a Republican party that is campaigning right now about how they're going to undo ACA. On those grounds I'm also skeptical that Hillary will change anything there either; her plans may be less radical and ambitious than Bernie's but they're still way past the threshold of getting any Republican support whatsoever.

Some of Bernie's other social programs may be unrealistic as well, ie tuition coverage.

But these aren't his only platforms, and in listening again to both him and Hillary's post-Iowa speeches tonight I really think that Bernie is pushing for more things that I think are important (to me personally and in general) and have some chance of actually happening. Like prison reform, campaign contribution reform (good luck seeing Hillary pitch this), more wall street regulation, environmental/energy concerns and treaties with other countries, and so on.

 

[MongGrel]

Republican isn't a slur that magically dismisses ones argument.

I am independent.

Sounds to me you've just pulled a page out of the book of BoberFett, and thinks that statement gives you free rein to casually insult anyone you feel like with a "safe zone".

Wow... what epic stupidity.

Obama didn't try dumbass. He is as corporatist as Hillary, who also declared she wouldn't try.

The establishment republicans in office don't want to undo the aca. It's a puppet show for the gullible idiots.

Maybe you are a special snowflake, I guess.

Go figure.

 

[irishScott]

I like Bernie. If I was a genie and you asked me which politician I want to appoint president and give a magic wand to, I would pick him over Hillary.
But we don't live in magic world. Bernie will never get elected, and even if he did, he wouldn't get any of what he campaigned on passed. The country is just nor ready for it, yet. The only way Bernie could get universal single payer health care in the US is to start a war with Canada and then immediately surrender.

Maybe not, but he'll be a start. He also has a promising history of respect and friendly relations with the other side of the aisle.

At the very least we'd have an honest person in the White House. That's one more decent person in power, and I'll take that over the status quo even if all he does is sit in the oval and fart out the window.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I favor Bernie but I see where people are coming from with their criticism of his health plan and I agree it's going to be a really hard sell to get any of it through the door at all vs a Republican party that is campaigning right now about how they're going to undo ACA. On those grounds I'm also skeptical that Hillary will change anything there either; her plans may be less radical and ambitious than Bernie's but they're still way past the threshold of getting any Republican support whatsoever.

Some of Bernie's other social programs may be unrealistic as well, ie tuition coverage.

But these aren't his only platforms, and in listening again to both him and Hillary's post-Iowa speeches tonight I really think that Bernie is pushing for more things that I think are important (to me personally and in general) and have some chance of actually happening. Like prison reform, campaign contribution reform (good luck seeing Hillary pitch this), more wall street regulation, environmental/energy concerns and treaties with other countries, and so on.

The establishment republicans in office don't want to undo the aca. It's a puppet show for the gullible idiots.

 

[theeedude]

Republican isn't a slur that magically dismisses ones argument.

I am independent.

You sound like Republican though. Same Obamacare bashing. I guess if Bernie is the nominee, you will see Medicaid expansion rolled back by a Republican president, that should make you pretty happy.

 

[theeedude]

Maybe not, but he'll be a start. He also has a promising history of respect and friendly relations with the other side of the aisle.

At the very least we'd have an honest person in the White House. That's one more decent person in power, and I'll take that over the status quo even if all he does is sit in the oval and fart out the window.

He'll be a Ralph Nader. What you will get is a Republican president with exact opposite policies that you hope to get by voting for Bernie.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

You sound like Republican though. Same Obamacare bashing. I guess if Bernie is the nominee, you will see Medicaid expansion rolled back by a Republican president, that should make you pretty happy.

Obamacare is a bad piece of legislation. You are not refuting the negatives of Obamacare. You aren't even arguing the positives outweigh the negatives. You are essentially conceding the debate.

 

[irishScott]

He'll be a Ralph Nader. What you will get is a Republican president with exact opposite policies that you hope to get by voting for Bernie.

What makes you think he'd go third party? Bernie, unlike the other candidates, seems to legitimately want to make the US a better place. I'm sure he'd prefer Hillary to whomever the Republicans nominate.

 

[theeedude]

What makes you think he'd go third party? Bernie, unlike the other candidates, seems to legitimately want to make the US a better place. I'm sure he'd prefer Hillary to whomever the Republicans nominate.

He won't have to go third party, he'll lose as a Democrat. I think everyone wants the world to be a better place. I will vote for Bernie if he's the nominee, but he will lose anyways. Then we'll have to sit there for 4 years when a Republican president nominates more SCOTUS justices who will block any future attempts at progressive legislation and rig the political system even more into an oligarchy, starts a war or two, eliminates Medicaid expansion, etc. Basically exactly what Nader voters got us under Bush, because they thought Al Gore was not progressive enough.

 

[theeedude]

Obamacare is a bad piece of legislation. You are not refuting the negatives of Obamacare. You aren't even arguing the positives outweigh the negatives. You are essentially conceding the debate.

Positives absolutely outweigh the negatives. I don't know about you, but I have friends who got either private insurance or Medicaid expansion under the ACA.
Are you against Medicaid expansion under Obamacare? Are you against banning exclusion based on pre-existing conditions?
Your argument that the young and healthy are the ones who pay for it is kind of silly. Who do you think is going to pay for Medicare for all? Old and sick? In any health care system, the young and healthy pay for the old and sick.

 

[umbrella39]

You sound like a Republican.

Does anyone posting here HONESTLY believe this guy's shtick still? This is very clearly someone's conservative ALT account...

 

[irishScott]

He won't have to go third party, he'll lose as a Democrat. I think everyone wants the world to be a better place. I will vote for Bernie if he's the nominee, but he will lose anyways. Then we'll have to sit there for 4 years when a Republican president nominates more SCOTUS justices who will block any future attempts at progressive legislation and rig the political system even more into an oligarchy, starts a war or two, eliminates Medicaid expansion, etc. Basically exactly what Nader voters got us under Bush, because they thought Al Gore was not progressive enough.

If Cruz or Trump gets the Nomination then Bernie has a serious shot in the general, I'm not sure where your certainty of his defeat comes from there. He polls ahead of Trump nationally, and Cruz is just a more polished Trump.

 

[theeedude]

If Cruz or Trump gets the Nomination then Bernie has a serious shot in the general, I'm not sure where your certainty of his defeat comes from there. He polls ahead of Trump nationally, and Cruz is just a more polished Trump.

I will spoil the surprise for you. It will be Rubio.

 

[irishScott]

I will spoil the surprise for you. It will be Rubio.

I'm not so sure. Right now he's effectively tied with Trump for 2nd place, technically in 3rd. He'll REALLY have to step it up to get the nomination unless Iowa is somehow a fluke for the Republicans.

 

[theeedude]

I'm not so sure. Right now he's effectively tied with Trump for 2nd place, technically in 3rd. He'll REALLY have to step it up to get the nomination unless Iowa is somehow a fluke for the Republicans.

Rubio is the new golden boy for the GOP big money donors and Citizens United crew.
You can always count on Republican useful idiots to roll over at and play for the establishment team at the end. There is a reason they have over the last 35 years let themselves get to the point where their life expectancy is now declining. They are too stupid to not just vote their own self interest, but even their livelihood.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Positives absolutely outweigh the negatives. I don't know about you, but I have friends who got either private insurance or Medicaid expansion under the ACA.
Are you against Medicaid expansion under Obamacare? Are you against banning exclusion based on pre-existing conditions?
Your argument that the young and healthy are the ones who pay for it is kind of silly. Who do you think is going to pay for Medicare for all? Old and sick? In any health care system, the young and healthy pay for the old and sick.

I am against the negative aspects of Obamacare, which are many. It's a net positive bill, but not by a huge margin.

universal healthcare or bust

Here is a question, what did Obama get for taking out the public option? Correct answer, Nothing! He took his biggest bargaining chip, and threw it away.....!!!!?????