No way is this guy innocent.

[DangerAardvark]

The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals was known for upholding convictions even when overwhelming exculpatory evidence came to light. In 1997, DNA testing proved that sperm collected from a rape victim did not match Roy Criner, who had been sentenced to ninety-nine years for the crime. Two lower courts recommended that the verdict be overturned, but the Court of Criminal Appeals upheld it, arguing that Criner might have worn a condom or might not have ejaculated. Sharon Keller, who is now the presiding judge on the court, stated in a majority opinion, ?The new evidence does not establish innocence.? In 2000, George W. Bush pardoned Criner. (Keller was recently charged with judicial misconduct, for refusing to keep open past five o?clock a clerk?s office in order to allow a last-minute petition from a man who was executed later that night.)

Now that's what I call a murder-boner.

This just keeps getting better.

In 1997, the International Association of Arson Investigators filed a legal brief arguing that arson sleuths should not be bound by a 1993 Supreme Court decision requiring experts who testified at trials to adhere to the scientific method.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

This is what happens when you raise a large portion of the population to have contempt for science. There was scientific evidence that cleared this man, but instead the courts sided with unqualified amateurs who had unverifiable track records in assessing the remains of fires. Many Americans are raised with a disgusting contempt of science, the scientific process and the scientific community (look at any threads around here on evolution, big bang theory or global warming for examples).

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Though some of the players were otherwise rude or abrasive with some posts I didn't find any of them obnoxious enough to warrant a severe post lashing. All in all a successful stir-the-pot thread.

YTopu need to worry more about yourself and less about judginbg other peoples actions!!

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: slayer202
perknose, how are you such a beautiful being and be a mod?

manybeers, you are a douche troll

No.

Edited: 09/04/2009 at 01:03 PM by ManyBeers

Spelling is hard.

 

[Baked]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This is what happens when you raise a large portion of the population to have contempt for science. There was scientific evidence that cleared this man, but instead the courts sided with unqualified amateurs who had unverifiable track records in assessing the remains of fires. Many Americans are raised with a disgusting contempt of science, the scientific process and the scientific community (look at any threads around here on evolution, big bang theory or global warming for examples).

Are you surprised? We got In God We Trust printed on all our moneys.

 

[ReggieDunlap]

1. I am a father. 2. I have never been in a house fire. 3. I am not a fireman. 4. I CANNOT say without a doubt that there is no way I would escape that fire without my children. 5. I have not yet read the article, I was too busy reading all of the posts. But the jist as I see it, this man was convicted of arson and then executed for that crime. Yet, it was later discovered the prosecutions case was inconsistent. In the USA, a person is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This man was wrongly executed.

There are numerous factors in a house fire that come into play: amount of smoke, heat, etc. Just because there's not a lot of visible flame doesnt mean its not HOT AS HELL. I HAVE spoken with a fireman who told me straight up, he has been in fires when he could not see the MAN standing less than 20 inches away from him due to smoke. Children, like house pets, tend to HIDE when they are scared and afraid. If this man's eldest child cried Daddy Daddy! then was hiding either in the closet of his room, under the bed, behind an end table, who can say he SHOULD HAVE FOUND HER.

OP, your single minded, bull-headedly stubborn viewpoint on this situation is incomprehensible to me.

My $.02, thank you all for playing.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
So you believe as a father you would have got out without your babies? You would have left them to burn. Even if you thought they were dead you wouldn't have gotten then out ...no
matter what?

You are talking completely out of your ass. A house can reach 1100 degrees in just a few minutes, which is the same temperature as an iron smelter. You would really crawl into a roaring blast furnace in an attempt to rescue your kids? See how long you can hold your arm over a grill, which is maybe 500 degrees tops. The guy had burns on his arms and his hair was burned off, and his neighbors said he was screaming and inconsolable.

http://www.fairviewok.org/id71.html

In only 3 /12 minutes, the heat from a house fire can reach over 1100°F. People die when the temperature is over 212°F.

Of course, after the fire marshal pulled that bogus evidence out of his ass they changed their story. Not surprising since it's extremely simple to change the way someone remembers something. And don't even get me started on the jailhouse snitch, is there a reason anyone still believes people like that?

Shouldn't that read "In only 3 - 12 minutes...", or "Within 3 and 12 minutes..." ?

 

[between]

...

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: between
even if he did kill his "babies", it's hardly a capital crime. 5, maybe 10 years in prison, then out on release.

da fuck?

Originally posted by: ReggieDunlap
1. I am a father. 2. I have never been in a house fire. 3. I am not a fireman. 4. I CANNOT say without a doubt that there is no way I would escape that fire without my children. 5. I have not yet read the article, I was too busy reading all of the posts. But the jist as I see it, this man was convicted of arson and then executed for that crime. Yet, it was later discovered the prosecutions case was inconsistent. In the USA, a person is INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This man was wrongly executed.

Actually the evidence of his innocence existed before he was murdered by the state, but the system is so unbelievably fucked up that no one cared. This is why governments should not be in charge of deciding who lives and who dies.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Barfo

Originally posted by: MrPickins

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
I don't think the jury convicted him based on all this crap. They were probably all loving parents simply didn't believe his bullshit story and hung him.

For sake of the integrity of our justice system, I hope you are never picked to serve on a jury...

Yeah, OP is a tool.

Yep kinda sad that someone would totally ignore evidence and send a man to his death because of their own personal feelings. What a tool the OP is.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

OP is a tool.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

I think the OP is just trying to piss everyone off.

 

[Elganja]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
OP is a tool.

QFT... great article btw

 

[SuperSix]

Don't feed the troll!!

Good article - makes me think twice about capital punishment.

OP - remove your head from you ass, stop trolling, read the entire article.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
So you believe as a father you would have got out without your babies? You would have left them to burn. Even if you thought they were dead you wouldn't have gotten then out ...no
matter what?

You are talking completely out of your ass. A house can reach 1100 degrees in just a few minutes, which is the same temperature as an iron smelter. You would really crawl into a roaring blast furnace in an attempt to rescue your kids? See how long you can hold your arm over a grill, which is maybe 500 degrees tops. The guy had burns on his arms and his hair was burned off, and his neighbors said he was screaming and inconsolable.

http://www.fairviewok.org/id71.html

In only 3 /12 minutes, the heat from a house fire can reach over 1100°F. People die when the temperature is over 212°F.

Of course, after the fire marshal pulled that bogus evidence out of his ass they changed their story. Not surprising since it's extremely simple to change the way someone remembers something. And don't even get me started on the jailhouse snitch, is there a reason anyone still believes people like that?

Shouldn't that read "In only 3 - 12 minutes...", or "Within 3 and 12 minutes..." ?

based on my experience as a volunteer firefighter, it should be 3 1/2 minutes, not a range.

i've been in fires where it's impossible to stand up in a room because of the heat and that's with gear on. i've also seen training videos of a room flashing over in a matter of minutes because of something flammable in the room such as furniture or a dried live christmas tree.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
That was one of the best articles I've read recently, fascinating. I haven't read the thread, wonder if anyone else noticed that the article is dated in the future.

nice catch. i think the article is being published in the 9/7/09 issue of the magazine, hence the "future" date. not sure why they posted it to the website early.

 

[stag3]

wow what a fucked up story, feel bad for the guy
but he was put to death for something he did not do.

i hope the original arson investigator thinks twice about
his conclusions now.

and the op is an idiot

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Thanks for the info JDub02

Yes Godless I noticed the date was next Monday too

 

[a123456]

On the bright side, when they're wrong in Texas, they do try to hide that under a bundle of money. Wow, 80k/year back payments plus 50k/year going forward for the rest of those people's lives. I'm sure those folks are glad that science advanced far enough while they were in jail 20+ years to uncover new evidence to overturn the wrongful convictions.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._exoneree_millionaires

 

[tk149]

The article is certainly pretty damming, but to be fair, the article was written to prove a point. It is not dispassionate and unbiased. Without further evidence, however, it does appear that a great injustice was done.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i have learned from this thread, having already read the article, that the op, citrix, and datalink are idiots

how so?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: ManyBeers

Originally posted by: jjsole
cliffs? no tiempo ahora.

Basically a 24 year old father awakes to his 2 year old daughter's cries of "Daddy! Daddy! realizes his 975 sq. foot house is on fire and he gets out alive and unhurt but his 3 infant daughters are killed. In my mind--- unless he wanted his daughters dead--his story is impossible for a father.

ok you are a idiot. I love my kids and would risk anything to save them. but hell im not superman. i can't walk into a burning house and get the kids out let alone get in at all.

it takes a matter of seconds for a small fire to get huge. furniture goes up fucking fast. since it has no firecoating.

I also suspect you didn't read the story you posted. it pretty much says that the guy didnt do it and the proscuters and such lied.

Not true
He didn't walk in he walked out
Of course I read it. That's how I know he lied so as not to look like a coward, which I'm sure you would have done as well. Right?

hmm i see why everyone is just calling you a idiot and ignoring you. you can't see facts.

Look waggy talk all the shit you want. you would not have walked out of that tiny fire without your kids.

tiny? you have no clue how fast a house fire can get or how hot.

 

[MrPickins]

Originally posted by: ManyBeers
Though some of the players were otherwise rude or abrasive with some posts I didn't find any of them obnoxious enough to warrant a severe post lashing. All in all a successful stir-the-pot thread.

So you admit you're just a damn troll?

What a piece of shit you are.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
This is what happens when you raise a large portion of the population to have contempt for science. There was scientific evidence that cleared this man, but instead the courts sided with unqualified amateurs who had unverifiable track records in assessing the remains of fires. Many Americans are raised with a disgusting contempt of science, the scientific process and the scientific community (look at any threads around here on evolution, big bang theory or global warming for examples).

Out of curiosity, how many years have you lived in the US?

 

[OutHouse]

At one point, Jackson showed Gregory Exhibit No. 60?a photograph of an Iron Maiden poster that had hung in Willingham?s house?and asked the psychologist to interpret it. ?This one is a picture of a skull, with a fist being punched through the skull,? Gregory said; the image displayed ?violence? and ?death.? Gregory looked at photographs of other music posters owned by Willingham. ?There?s a hooded skull, with wings and a hatchet,? Gregory continued. ?And all of these are in fire, depicting?it reminds me of something like Hell. And there?s a picture?a Led Zeppelin picture of a falling angel. . . . I see there?s an association many times with cultive-type of activities. A focus on death, dying. Many times individuals that have a lot of this type of art have interest in satanic-type activities.?

Though only the babysitter had appeared as a witness for the defense during the main trial, several family members, including Stacy, testified during the penalty phase, asking the jury to spare Willingham?s life. When Stacy was on the stand, Jackson grilled her about the ?significance? of Willingham?s ?very large tattoo of a skull, encircled by some kind of a serpent.? ?It?s just a tattoo,? Stacy responded. ?He just likes skulls and snakes. Is that what you?re saying?? ?No. He just had?he got a tattoo on him.? The prosecution cited such evidence in asserting that Willingham fit the profile of a sociopath, and brought forth two medical experts to confirm the theory. Neither had met Willingham. One of them was Tim Gregory, a psychologist with a master?s degree in marriage and family issues, who had previously gone goose hunting with Jackson, and had not published any research in the field of sociopathic behavior. His practice was devoted to family counselling.

this alone was just un-fucking believable. and should have been grounds alone to throw this case out. this trial turned into a salem witch hunt and this innocent man was murdered for it.