No way! France speaks out against US war plan

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Tiger

Originally posted by: JellyBaby

This time we're coming after Saddam himself.

No, the goal is to take over Iraq by destroying the country then installing a quasi-pro Western government. Offing Saddum solves little over the long term as many would just take his place.

The goal as I see it is regime change. Saddam and more importantly the Iraqi people can make it as painful for themselves as they like. You'd think we wouldn't be destined to repeat history. Didn't we learn anything from Hitler and WWII? If somebody in Germany had stepped up and put a bullet in Hitler's mellon the war may never have started. You don't appease people like this. The best way to make a bully behave is kick his ass.

So how does it play out after that? Saying it doesnt matter is specious, because it does.

 

[DukeFan21]

I can see it already...

After France and half of Europe is nuked/gases/slaughtered by Saddam...France: If the United States would've taken him out when they had the chance, this would've never happened.

 

[abaez]

God there is a good song out there right now that totally sums up everything about this post. here are some snippets.

"They tell us there are only two sides to be on
If you are on our side you?re right if not you?re wrong...
...Since when is skepticism un-American?
Dissent?s not treason but they talk like it?s the same
Those who disagree are afraid to show their face..."

So what if France (or any country for that matter) doesn't like us attacking who are we to shove our policy on them.

Edit dont get me wrong I would support an attack on Iraq, but if a country does not like it we should leave them be (if they choose to be neutral)

 

[ThreeLeggedGnome]

These armchair generals only sound tough ON THE INTERNET because there are other americans who will be sent in their place over there to fight that war if it ever happens. Nuke this nuke that, this blood-thirsty attitude is sickening.

 

[Bobomatic]

France, what do they know about war plans. Umm, when is the last war that they won?

 

[res1bhmg]

Thank you France for stepping forward and seeing the truth behind Bush's charade.

France will not be the last major country to condemn the US war plan. Bush can barely get majority support for it in the US; the idea will completely flop internationally.

 

[DeadHead]

I am glad more countries are stepping forward and saying how dumb this move is. Its complete idiocy, we are going to destroy a developing country because we don't like their leader, they MIGHT get nukes, and if they do they MIGHT use them on us. The only reason we are going is because its what israil (sp?) wants and Bush wants to finish what his dad didn't. That guy is a freakin retard. He even hired a bunch of lawyers to figure out a way to go to war without approval of congress!

 

[SuperCyrix]

France backing out again, big surprise. Wasn't this how they got whooped 2X by German?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SuperCyrix
France backing out again, big surprise. Wasn't this how they got whooped 2X by German?

They were only whooped once by Germany.

 

[RadioactiveMagpies]

They were only whooped once by Germany.

Did the germans take paris in ww1?

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: RadioactiveMagpies

They were only whooped once by Germany.

Did the germans take paris in ww1?

I don't believe so. The Germans didn't have any real mechanized infantry, so the Schlieffen Plan to encircle Paris fell short and the war devolved into a stalemate of intense trench warfare until the invention and introduction of the tank to the conflict. World War I was just one big meat grinder (Verdun, particularly, where close to 1 million people died).

In WWII, France miscalculated by putting their efforts into the fixed fortifications of the Maginot Line, causing Germany to outflank them via a march through Belgium.

 

[DivideBYZero]

So America wants a Change of Government in Iraq....

Also wanted Change in Cuba...Didn't happen

Also wanted change in Vietnam...Didn't happen


I am sick to the core of America deciding who should rule in which country. What would you all think of Russia deciding that Bush et al needed replacing with a more pro-Russian leadership. OUTRAGE! and quite rightly too.

This smacks of bullying and no more and is based upon the fact that although the Desert Storm campaing was a success (in that Kuwait was liberated, SUV's could be filled with Fuel again) America's nose has been out of joint ever since due to Saddam still ruling.

As for all the fvcking ra-ra about WW2 and Hitler this is just designed to get you all behind the plan, you mindless Automatons. Churchill will be turning in his grave after Rumsfelds out of context quotations.

It seems that the only Freedom America stands for is for the freedom of Americans and everyone else can whistle for it.

The last time I checked, the world was round, not shaped like North America...

 

[kt]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
So America wants a Change of Government in Iraq....

Also wanted Change in Cuba...Didn't happen

Also wanted change in Vietnam...Didn't happen


I am sick to the core of America deciding who should rule in which country. What would you all think of Russia deciding that Bush et al needed replacing with a more pro-Russian leadership. OUTRAGE! and quite rightly too.

This smacks of bullying and no more and is based upon the fact that although the Desert Storm campaing was a success (in that Kuwait was liberated, SUV's could be filled with Fuel again) America's nose has been out of joint ever since due to Saddam still ruling.

As for all the fvcking ra-ra about WW2 and Hitler this is just designed to get you all behind the plan, you mindless Automatons. Churchill will be turning in his grave after Rumsfelds out of context quotations.

It seems that the only Freedom America stands for is for the freedom of Americans and everyone else can whistle for it.

The last time I checked, the world was round, not shaped like North America...

Just be happy that you aren't living in any of those countries.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: kt

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
So America wants a Change of Government in Iraq....

Also wanted Change in Cuba...Didn't happen

Also wanted change in Vietnam...Didn't happen


I am sick to the core of America deciding who should rule in which country. What would you all think of Russia deciding that Bush et al needed replacing with a more pro-Russian leadership. OUTRAGE! and quite rightly too.

This smacks of bullying and no more and is based upon the fact that although the Desert Storm campaing was a success (in that Kuwait was liberated, SUV's could be filled with Fuel again) America's nose has been out of joint ever since due to Saddam still ruling.

As for all the fvcking ra-ra about WW2 and Hitler this is just designed to get you all behind the plan, you mindless Automatons. Churchill will be turning in his grave after Rumsfelds out of context quotations.

It seems that the only Freedom America stands for is for the freedom of Americans and everyone else can whistle for it.

The last time I checked, the world was round, not shaped like North America...

Just be happy that you aren't living in any of those countries.

True, that.. It's nice to actually have the freedom to have opinions like that, isn't it?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: kt

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
So America wants a Change of Government in Iraq....

Also wanted Change in Cuba...Didn't happen

Also wanted change in Vietnam...Didn't happen


I am sick to the core of America deciding who should rule in which country. What would you all think of Russia deciding that Bush et al needed replacing with a more pro-Russian leadership. OUTRAGE! and quite rightly too.

This smacks of bullying and no more and is based upon the fact that although the Desert Storm campaing was a success (in that Kuwait was liberated, SUV's could be filled with Fuel again) America's nose has been out of joint ever since due to Saddam still ruling.

As for all the fvcking ra-ra about WW2 and Hitler this is just designed to get you all behind the plan, you mindless Automatons. Churchill will be turning in his grave after Rumsfelds out of context quotations.

It seems that the only Freedom America stands for is for the freedom of Americans and everyone else can whistle for it.

The last time I checked, the world was round, not shaped like North America...

Just be happy that you aren't living in any of those countries.

I think your view of the above mentioned countries is that spoon fed to you by the media.

 

[AsukaStrikes]

the real reason Europe doesnt want a war invlolving iraq [even if we pay for it] is that it'll spike gas prices super duper high. even those the europeans are dumb enuff to already pay $5+ per gallon thanks to liberal government taxes, they know a war will mean they'll pay $6-7

of course likewise, bushy with his bedfellow oil buddies want oil prices higher, so he'd be willing to goto war to boost his coffers, plus his ratings are slipping.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Well let's see......France did sell Iraq a lot of military equipment both before and after Desert Storm. They are also the main source for the starter materials Iraq used to develop it's biological and chemical warfare programs. Hmmmm..........of course Germany, UK, and the U.S. also contributed to Iraq's chemical weapons program in the early to mid 80's but France has continued to do so. Gotta love those cheese eating surrender monkeys........

Well, USA sold lots and lots of military tech to Israel. Israel in return told 'em to China (you know, the bad-boy China). China sold some of that tech to Iraq (in fact, some of the IR-targeting-systems in Iraqi tanks had "Made in USA" printed on 'em)

Open mouth, insert foot.

EDIT: And does USA really have the right to get rid of Saddam? Sure, you say that "He's evil, he's gotta go!", but Al-Qaida thought that about USA too. Does that make WTC-attacks justified? What next? USA attacking every country that doesn't do exactly what they want?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

EDIT: And does USA really have the right to get rid of Saddam? Sure, you say that "He's evil, he's gotta go!", but Al-Qaida thought that about USA too. Does that make WTC-attacks justified? What next? USA attacking every country that doesn't do exactly what they want?

Seconded.

 

[Bluga]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
what's in it for them? I don't blame them, I don't even know what's in it for us.

 

[Bluga]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Regardless of what you think of Iraq, no European country owes us fealty. Remember that from an outsiders perspective, the US could be seen as the most powerful country in the world poised to strike a mortal blow to another country without sufficient REAL provocation. There is a great difference between what you know and what you think you know. We think we know Iraq has some nasty things. Some (and not all here) think that he MIGHT use them against us. In a court of law this does not even constitute good hearsay evidence. We might be justified in attacking, but you cannot say for sure. Regardless of the results, many Europeans are uncomfortable with the precident we would set. Remember too, they will have to live with the outcome of this, for good or ill.

well said.

 

[syzygy]

how many countries must saddam invade for him to be understand by certain people to be a murderous megalomaniac ?

iran in 1980. kuwait in 1990. without a u.s. led intervention, he would not have stopped. when his territorial ambitions were
frustrated (both in his stalemate with iran and defeat in kuwait) he turned on his own oppressed subjects who had the gall
to revolt. he gassed the kurds in the 1980's and attempted to annihilate the shiites in the south following their brief uprising
in 1991.

there isn't another contemporary dictator who has displayed and acted upon similar militaristic goals.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: syzygy
how many countries must saddam invade for him to be understand by certain people to be a murderous megalomaniac ?

iran in 1980. kuwait in 1990. without a u.s. led intervention, he would not have stopped.

Last time I checked, USA was a big supporter of Iraq in their war against Iran.

Open mouth, insert foot

 

[Red Dawn]

No way! France speaks out against US war plan

Hey it's France, if it isn't/wasn't originally their idea(or they can't claim it was) they always are against it. If we want F4rances support we have to convince them that they thought of it first.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: syzygy
how many countries must saddam invade for him to be understand by certain people to be a murderous megalomaniac ?

iran in 1980. kuwait in 1990. without a u.s. led intervention, he would not have stopped. when his territorial ambitions were
frustrated (both in his stalemate with iran and defeat in kuwait) he turned on his own oppressed subjects who had the gall
to revolt. he gassed the kurds in the 1980's and attempted to annihilate the shiites in the south following their brief uprising
in 1991.

there isn't another contemporary dictator who has displayed and acted upon similar militaristic goals.

True. He's a seriously destabilizing influence in the Middle East.

Since the existence of Western Civilization itself depends on oil, it's very much in the interests of the entire Western world to remove this guy from power. Bleeding-ass liberals, environmentalists, and the French may not like that particular fact, but it simply is.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: syzygy
how many countries must saddam invade for him to be understand by certain people to be a murderous megalomaniac ?

iran in 1980. kuwait in 1990. without a u.s. led intervention, he would not have stopped. when his territorial ambitions were
frustrated (both in his stalemate with iran and defeat in kuwait) he turned on his own oppressed subjects who had the gall
to revolt. he gassed the kurds in the 1980's and attempted to annihilate the shiites in the south following their brief uprising
in 1991.

there isn't another contemporary dictator who has displayed and acted upon similar militaristic goals.

True. He's a seriously destabilizing influence in the Middle East.

Since the existence of Western Civilization itself depends on oil, it's very much in the interests of the entire Western world to remove this guy from power. Bleeding-ass liberals, environmentalists, and the French may not like that particular fact, but it simply is.

Well in that case I predict the entire collapse of Western Civilization as you know it in 50 years when all the oil has gone. Oh, and to cheer you up some more, we only have 100 odd years left of coal too...