No one is talking about the real game changer.

[momeNt]

Even better idea: let lenders lose their money, so that they will have incentive to loan money out based on the chances of it being paid back, with an appropriate interest rate.

Yea except these are government loan programs. The government has no money, it only takes money, so the taxpayers foot the bill in either case. These are not market loans like a car loan.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Even better idea: let lenders lose their money, so that they will have incentive to loan money out based on the chances of it being paid back, with an appropriate interest rate.

You do realize most students loans are backed by the government...right?

 

[randomrogue]

Actually I got my job most likely because where I got my education.

Graduated in 2011 as a chemical engineer from the University of Cincinnati.

Found a job Feb 2012, for that position. And 1 of the reasons I was chosen beyond some other candidates is because I went to UC, and the General Manager of the company got his 6 year degree there.

So it does play a bigger role than you think. Though it isn't going to eliminate good job possibilities if you choose a smaller school.

There is definitely the guild system. However I don't know anything about the University of Cincinnati and if it was between you and someone who went to my university I would honestly care less. As a business owner the school you went to means very little to my bottom line.

 

[randomrogue]

A) The cheap prices like that are important for families of smaller income. You can't just tax the fuck outta cheap fatty food prices, would cause a whole new issue.

B) Healthier foods are pricier because of how they are manufactored and packaged. And convinence, they normally take longer to make/cook, and todays society is very on the go.

Unhealthy foods need to be taxed so that 1) people eat healthier, and 2) so that we can pay to take care of those that get sick from eating it. We really should tax the fuck out of it since that $5 meal at McDonalds is shit while you could get some stir fry and a piece of chicken and have a meal ready in 5 minutes that feeds 4 people for the same price.

 

[ElFenix]

So why I'm hearing is that we should be investing in building new schools so that there is more competition and lower prices.

Because I'm sure you aren't saying loan rates should be raised and the amount of students should be shrinked.

no economist was ever asked about the wisdom of stimulating demand in order to reduce the cost of a good.

and yes, there probably are too many people in college.

 

[momeNt]

Unhealthy foods need to be taxed so that 1) people eat healthier, and 2) so that we can pay to take care of those that get sick from eating it. We really should tax the fuck out of it since that $5 meal at McDonalds is shit while you could get some stir fry and a piece of chicken and have a meal ready in 5 minutes that feeds 4 people for the same price.

What about the people who don't get sick from eating those foods? Penalize them, just because?

Government is exceptional at creating externalities and market failures, yet somehow it promotes itself as the solution to the very same.

 

[randomrogue]

What about the people who don't get sick from eating those foods? Penalize them, just because?

Government is exceptional at creating externalities and market failures, yet somehow it promotes itself as the solution to the very same.

Yes we live in a society so I don't care if you don't get addicted to crack and you don't get heart disease, I care about the society as a whole. This isn't all about you.

 

[ElFenix]

What about the people who don't get sick from eating those foods? Penalize them, just because?

Government is exceptional at creating externalities and market failures, yet somehow it promotes itself as the solution to the very same.

the feds have caused an obesity epidemic by subsidizing the hell out of shitty food and far too many think that the solution is more government interference.

 

[momeNt]

Yes we live in a society so I don't care if you don't get addicted to crack and you don't get heart disease, I care about the society as a whole. This isn't all about you.

Why not just tax only the fat people who eat at McDonald's put a scale at the register. Let's have a return to accountability, it's what you want with the housing and education bubbles, why not the healthcare bubble with preventable diseases?

 

[randomrogue]

Why not just tax only the fat people who eat at McDonald's put a scale at the register. Let's have a return to accountability, it's what you want with the housing and education bubbles, why not the healthcare bubble with preventable diseases?

You do see the difference there right?

1. Education - Provide free education to those that have the grades to get into a program that leads to a job. If you took a loan you have to pay for it.
2. Housing - Stop loans to people who can't afford to pay for them, let those who can't afford their house go into foreclosure, let their credit be ruined, and allow housing to regain normal values

3. Healthcare - Our number one source of bankruptcy last I heard. Provide people with it for free. While I could use the argument that since people who chose to take a unsustainable student loan need to pay for it so people who choose to eat unhealthy should cover their own healthcare I am taking a more sensible approach and simply advocating a return to healthy eating. Tax cigarettes and unhealthy food to pay for their added cost to the healthcare system.

 

[ElFenix]

3. Healthcare - Our number one source of bankruptcy last I heard. Provide people with it for free. While I could use the argument that since people who chose to take a unsustainable student loan need to pay for it so people who choose to eat unhealthy should cover their own healthcare I am taking a more sensible approach and simply advocating a return to healthy eating. Tax cigarettes and unhealthy food to pay for their added cost to the healthcare system.

or, you know, stop subsidizing shitty food.

 

[Cerb]

Yea except these are government loan programs. The government has no money, it only takes money, so the taxpayers foot the bill in either case. These are not market loans like a car loan.

You do realize most students loans are backed by the government...right?

🙄

Even better idea:

It wouldn't be an, "even better idea," if it were the current reality, now, would it? Then it would be the status quo, instead.

If there's going to be loans, they should be like any other loan.

If we want to pay for school through the government, we should pay for school through the government.

Loans that can hang on someone's head, but who's offer to the borrower is not connected to the borrower's likelihood of paying it back, is wrong.

 

[randomrogue]

Our healthcare is incredibly expensive. It leads to lots of bankruptcy. I've never read the statistics but the fact that free healthcare is not provided to our citizens is pathetic. We call ourselves modern yet we have for profit education and healthcare and a wealth discrepancy that is feudal.

 

[ElFenix]

Our healthcare is incredibly expensive. It leads to lots of bankruptcy. I've never read the statistics but the fact that free healthcare is not provided to our citizens is pathetic. We call ourselves modern yet we have for profit education and healthcare and a wealth discrepancy that is feudal.

there's no such thing as free.

 

[diesbudt]

You do see the difference there right?

1. Education - Provide free education to those that have the grades to get into a program that leads to a job. If you took a loan you have to pay for it.
2. Housing - Stop loans to people who can't afford to pay for them, let those who can't afford their house go into foreclosure, let their credit be ruined, and allow housing to regain normal values

3. Healthcare - Our number one source of bankruptcy last I heard. Provide people with it for free. While I could use the argument that since people who chose to take a unsustainable student loan need to pay for it so people who choose to eat unhealthy should cover their own healthcare I am taking a more sensible approach and simply advocating a return to healthy eating. Tax cigarettes and unhealthy food to pay for their added cost to the healthcare system.

My question is though "what is unhealthy?"

I remember a story year -2 back where a nutritionalist was annoyed by all the hearsay on foods.

Went on a 2 month TWINKIE ONLY diet. He had 1800 calories a day, of only twinkies for 60 days.

He lost weight, his blood pressure went down. He was healthier. Yet the food was, considered very unhealthy.

That is another problem with that. It is not the food, but the people. You can eat bad foods 3 times a day and lose weight, its called portions (the true evil of current obesity via food). Just have to be aware of what you are eating.

 

[highland145]

Loans that can hang on someone's head, but who's offer to the borrower is not connected to the borrower's likelihood of paying it back, is wrong.

Then there would be a lot less in college......the way it should be anyway.:thumbsup:

 

[PricklyPete]

the excessive amount of cheap student loans are largely responsible for the skyrocketing cost of tuition.

exactly

 

[randomrogue]

there's no such thing as free.

You know exactly what I mean. Tax dollars.

It would be really great if I could tell my friends what my US tax dollars go to. I can't. It gets wasted. I honestly can't name a single thing that I get for my tax dollars besides a large military, crumbling infrastructure, and poor public education. Oh and when I retire I get some social security that will not cover basic living expenses. Probably not though unless I retire at 69 or maybe 71 by then.

On the other hand my other citizenship where I pay a few percent more I can list about 10 things.

Something is not right.

 

[randomrogue]

My question is though "what is unhealthy?"

I remember a story year -2 back where a nutritionalist was annoyed by all the hearsay on foods.

Went on a 2 month TWINKIE ONLY diet. He had 1800 calories a day, of only twinkies for 60 days.

He lost weight, his blood pressure went down. He was healthier. Yet the food was, considered very unhealthy.

That is another problem with that. It is not the food, but the people. You can eat bad foods 3 times a day and lose weight, its called portions (the true evil of current obesity via food). Just have to be aware of what you are eating.

Anyone with half a brain knows what is unhealthy and what is not. I'm not even talking about moderation. Clearly a diet of nothing but asparagus is unhealthy. Dear lord the smell.

There is nothing at McDonalds that is healthy unless you order a salad with no dressing. It tastes good. It's cheap. It's not healthy. It feeds millions and millions of people and leads to health problems. It should be more expensive so that we can cover that cost.

 

[momeNt]

You know exactly what I mean. Tax dollars.

It would be really great if I could tell my friends what my US tax dollars go to. I can't. It gets wasted. I honestly can't name a single thing that I get for my tax dollars besides a large military, crumbling infrastructure, and poor public education. Oh and when I retire I get some social security that will not cover basic living expenses. Probably not though unless I retire at 69 or maybe 71 by then.

On the other hand my other citizenship where I pay a few percent more I can list about 10 things.

Something is not right.

That's because idiots task government with the impossible. So to expect results is insane.

 

[randomrogue]

Somehow other countries get results. Instead we try to get as little for our tax dollars as possible while somehow increasing government spending and debt. Both parties do it too.

We're so stupid that we have people who want to repeal Obamacare despite it saving us money.

It's like an alcoholic family and nothing will change until we hit rock bottom. Only when 90% of the country is dead in the streets and unable to read and write will we go "Hey, maybe we should actually give a shit about our people."

 

[EagleKeeper]

Minimum wage, prevailing wage acts, government intervening in collective bargaining. All of those are anti-market.

And how many of those impact college grads with a degree in art or basket weaving?

Minimum wage impacts those at the low level of educations and the employment food chain. Not at all relevant to the discussion.

Collective bargaining - when intervening; what types of jobs of those and the educations required for those jobs?

Prevailing wage acts - if anything, those are concessions to the unions (by the Dems) to increase wages, not to decrease them.

 

[openwheel]

They need to learn there are other less expensive means to get through the first two years and they don't have to attend expensive colleges. If enough people did this colleges would have no choice but to lower their tuition.

LOL you try to squeeze into a class of 120 when there are 500 people trying to take the same class. My little cousins are having trouble just getting the classes they want.

 

[EagleKeeper]

LOL you try to squeeze into a class of 120 when there are 500 people trying to take the same class. My little cousins are having trouble just getting the classes they want.

Name brand, state or CC?

 

[momeNt]

And how many of those impact college grads with a degree in art or basket weaving?

Minimum wage impacts those at the low level of educations and the employment food chain. Not at all relevant to the discussion.

Collective bargaining - when intervening; what types of jobs of those and the educations required for those jobs?

Prevailing wage acts - if anything, those are concessions to the unions (by the Dems) to increase wages, not to decrease them.

The examples I gave aren't relevant examples I suppose, but just examples of anti-market behavior by the government. My point is that the supply of recent student grads is a government distortion that is very anti-market.