No one is talking about the real game changer.

Discussion in 'Politics and News' started by techs, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. randomrogue

    randomrogue Diamond Member

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    I took a class for fun at my local community college. I was very surprised to see that they were closed on Fridays and had cut a huge amount of classes. The grant programs were all suspended. On the first day of class I was out in the hall since there was no room to get in there. Luckily most dropped and I got in.
     
  2. Cerb

    Cerb Elite Member

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    Or, decide that to have a filter to decide who to pay tuition for, and just pay it. I am conditionally for publicly-funded college education (and, a significant minority of my college costs were paid for by the state). Conditionally, because, of course, just paying for everyone to do what they want would be stupid to fund. Some filtering, or even limiting it to STEM, would be necessary.

    However, a loan should be a fair deal between a lender of money and a borrower of money, with the risk v. reward for both parties deciding the amount and interest, or whether one should be approved for any amount at all.

    Student loans have very much become nearly-unchecked subsidies for schooling institutions, and worse, in a way that helps increase the student population in a way that does not benefit many of those students. It's debt that's way too available and cheap, but the strings attached are not something that most people will understand when they start taking it out (if you didn't make stupid decisions back then, that's great for you, but most people do, and you won't be bale to magically fix that situation).

    It's not that schools make all their money that way, but that's an easy way for them to acquire money, and an easy way for the students to borrow money, regardless of how easy it will be for the student to pay it back. Yet those two aspects of the deal should have to balance each other, rather than just being easy.
     
  3. Exterous

    Exterous Lifer

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    How many worthless degrees do you think we are pumping out? Philosophy and religious studies combined to total less than 1% of degrees granted per year.

    The largest concentrations of degrees are in Business, Health, Education. The number getting commonly called 'worthless' degrees is still quite small - although they do tend to make headlines

    To be fair the rules were put in place because a lot of people getting degrees requiring a lot of schooling (doctors) were declaring bankruptcy after graduating and wiping out their loans. Unfortunately instead of a compromise we swung completely in the other direction
     
  4. randomrogue

    randomrogue Diamond Member

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    Communication degrees were the joke when I was in college. Where did you find %'s for degrees?
     
  5. Zebo

    Zebo Elite Member

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    Communication majors make good cops cause they have to write reports all the time so everything has value. Education as a whole has value to understanding the world around you even if you are relegated to digging ditches due to our hollowed out/service economy. Prefer history majors so they understand how it happened and work to prevent it in future with good education.
     
    #80 Zebo, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  6. Munky

    Munky Diamond Member

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    Ah, yet another excuse to vote for the Gimmedat party. The first mistake is assuming that anyone is entitled to a college education. Contrary to popular belief, a college education is not necessary to become successful. Does it help? It might, so long as you don't get into $100,000 debt for a degree in wymyns studies and then work as a taxpayer-funded public sector paper-pusher.

    What's more appalling is the refusal of social safety net pundits to acknowledge that their asinine policies are the reason why college costs an arm and a leg these days. When you have an increased demand for college education driven by government-sponsored loans, what do you expect to happen to the price of entry? The same thing that happened to house prices when anyone with a pulse could obtain a loan for the McMansion they always wanted. And unsurprisingly, in their arrogance and tunnel vision, the only solution the leftists can see is more bailouts and more handouts... kinda like more stimulus because the first 3 weren't big enough.
     
  7. unokitty

    unokitty Diamond Member

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    Government thinks everyone should own a home. Forces financial institutions to give loans to anyone.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Government thinks everyone should go to college. Makes loans to anyone.

    What could possibly go wrong?


    Some data about choosing a major:

    Worst College Majors for Your Career

    1. Anthropology
    2. Fine Arts
    3. Film and Photography
    4. Philosophy and Religious Studies
    5. Graphic Design
    6. Studio Arts
    7. Liberal Arts
    8. Drama and Theater Arts
    9. Sociology
    10. English

    Metrics used: Unemployment rate, Recent grad employment rate, Median salary, Median salary for recent grads, Projected job growth, Likelhood of working retail

    Data from Payscale.com and Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce.

    Uno
     
  8. boomerang

    boomerang Lifer

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    These next four years are going to awesome. The hangover afterwards is going to be brutal.
     
  9. Exterous

    Exterous Lifer

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    I am astonished Architecture is not on there. Highest unemployment of any degree you can get (13.9%) which is more than 3x the average for a degree. Starting salary around $36,000 (In line with Ethnic and Civilization studies). The median income must set it apart given the disparity from the top to the bottom...

    http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d11/tables/dt11_286.asp
     
  10. stormkroe

    stormkroe Golden Member

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    I'll one-up you there, the plumber who just finished the 12-plex my guys just finished wiring made about $400 per hour, and his company was the cheapest around by 30%.
     
  11. Cerb

    Cerb Elite Member

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    Yup. But, oh, let's not deal with it as a loophole of bankruptcy laws and regs. Instead, why don't we change the system to just remove the risk from the people that are receiving the money? That's a grand idea, no?
     
  12. Acanthus

    Acanthus Lifer

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    Subsidized loans are gone.
     
  13. Wreckem

    Wreckem Diamond Member

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    The majority of tenured professors in the US make no where near six figures. Most are in the $70-80k range. And tenured professors have to teach two classes, not one and they have to advise multiple masters/doctoral students.

    And lets keep things in perspective. Someone with a two year Associates of Nursing starts out making more than most Professors start out at.
     
    #88 Wreckem, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  14. Wreckem

    Wreckem Diamond Member

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    Subsidized loans are gone for graduate students. Undergrads who qualify still get subsidized loans.
     
  15. exdeath

    exdeath Lifer

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    Are you kidding? A Computer Science degree is like one of the top 5 degrees to have right now.
     
  16. highland145

    highland145 Lifer

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    :eek:

    How? Union? That doesn't compute either.
     
  17. Mursilis

    Mursilis Diamond Member

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    At some point you're going to realize you contradicted yourself.
     
  18. Mursilis

    Mursilis Diamond Member

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    I have a sociology degree with a philosophy minor. I can personally attest, what a profoundly bad idea that was!
     
  19. Mursilis

    Mursilis Diamond Member

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    When even the young college graduates are looking to join the dependent classes, you've officially gone over the cliff as a nation, and you're just waiting on impact.
     
  20. randomrogue

    randomrogue Diamond Member

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    No. I'm not. I'm saying it should be free but not frivolous spending.

    We only educate people in limited numbers that correspond to the number of jobs out there.

    I had friends who got Philosophy Degrees, Communication Degrees, History Degrees, etc and they were not useful unless you were the best of the best. If you're the best of the best by all means study what you want since you'll be top of your class and qualified to get in on the very limited amount of seats for these types of majors and be getting a good job when you get out. Anthropology might be at the top of that list for worst majors but if you're Diane Fossey or Jane Goodall you're going places.

    At some point the mediocre out there need to recognize that a degree in communication is worthless when instead they could have done an apprenticeship as a drill press specialist, gotten a job, been better paid, and had a better life than paying off high student loans working as an office assistant for $11/hr. The really smart people in this recession are getting nursing jobs and specializing. I have a friend making $200K+ with only a 2 year degree. It blows my mind. I don't know a nurse making less than $75K.
     
  21. Mursilis

    Mursilis Diamond Member

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    It's a nation of 300M+ people, with a ridiculously complex economy. How are you ever going to figure out how many of each kind of degree we need?
     
  22. EagleKeeper

    EagleKeeper Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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    So we have a lottery for each degree?
     
  23. shortylickens

    shortylickens No Lifer

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    Wow, you mean flooding the market with excessive amounts of cash DIDNT solve any problems?
    You're saying it made MORE?
    Really?

    NO FUCKING WAY! I am shocked!

    Shocked, I say!
     
  24. Mursilis

    Mursilis Diamond Member

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    I hope I get pre-med, even if I have no aptitude for it! With someone like me performing your surgery, your "will-I-have-enough-money-for-retirement?" worries are out the window! And so's your chances of recovery!
     
  25. randomrogue

    randomrogue Diamond Member

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    They do it where I live now. They tie internships, non-paid practice, and job placement to the program of study. If they find another job to fill they add another spot to the program.

    I doubt you could do it on a national level. You don't need to though. MIT might be able to network far wider than say the University of Boise but that's ok.

    We see a lot of this already with medical programs. Want to become a pacemaker specialist? The program that teaches it has job placement in 3 of the larger companies. They admit 20 people.